I want to hear your opinions on breeders, seeds, and prices. [Jun 15]

[GuerillaJack]

The tricky part is keeping the vigor in the plant at f6 or f7.

you don't lose vigour dude after the F1. The F1 is very explosive as its two new varieties paired. After the f1 they stay pretty much the same or can get slightly better through selecting for explosive growth.

I know what you mean but it is not that different you would really notice, as long as you select the right phenos and keep the quality high culling any that dont meet the standards (always a hard one ). Then the few extra days or so will be worth it. I would go for quality over speed all the time, the faster ones are stretchy as well so its finding a balance. Time and speed I personally dont mind I select exclusively for Yield, strength, perfect leaves, structure, stem strength, good germination, flower density. My genetics are hairy I like my hairs ha ha, even go as far as to light stress them see if they hermie, we have all had a light leak or timer issue once at least and can fuck up your grow with a strain that hermies. Pisses me off to no end so like plants tough rah . Safe fella GJ

 

[45th]

Once I get my landrace early, smelly, tasty and dwarf...I'M THE breeder

Farmin' Guerilla

 

[Pendleton]

I dislike the "ten seeds" mentality of packs. Very few consumers are looking for phenotypical variation. They're looking for what the pack advertises itself as, and that is often not the case. When I buy "Indigo Rose" tomato I'm not looking to fish around for different plants - I'm expecting a fair number of stable seeds for a fair price, and I think that's the direction things will shift once legalization comes.

 

[Schwarzenegro]

People thatcome up with names for crosses before they've even made the crosses....... a fancy name for whatever random results the seeds have

Just trying to be popular.

 

[Infinitesimal]

breeder

breeder

breeder

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couple of respectable american seedbanks operating atm, been wondering whats going to happen to eu banks when things are a bit more stable and legal in the states.wonder if the tude will have an american site? greenhouse seeds have been doing alot of promo work over there.

lol, yes!

and this...

 

[sdd420]

F6 f7 would make for a pretty uniform phenotype. Depends how well its done I assume... some heads may beg to differ, regarding a pack of 10 seeds to produce very similar plants. Whats the point of 10? If they r all the same. Whos to say the breeder has the same tastes and enjoys the same effects as the end customer. Does the breeder even consider the effects? Kinda the point of weed imo.... lets not turn it into a useless product like tobacco....

Variety is nice. Not sayin anyone r is wrong just throwing a valid point out there....

Totally agree that's why I pop seeds anyway instead of a clone. Of course with seeds you don't have to worry about contaminated clones etc. there's so many possibilities why limit them(bottleneck ). Seed makers get those special genetics out to those who aren't in a legal state etc. I don't mind a variety peace sdd

 

[unregistered190]

Great thread

My thoughts are "breeders" take time to think about their selections....looking to achieve a certain goal in a breeding project, and then working over time to achieve that goal.

Then there are "pollen chuckers" which will try every possible combination of every good strain they run across in hopes of lucking out on the next "elite". Not sure....but most elites have been born this way I think.

Neither are better or worse than the other in my opinion...just different approaches I guess...

I do not discriminate.......so all good smoke is welcome in my garden of course

 

[sourpuss]

^^thats right.... bring the fire breeders.... whether f16 or f1... just be honest with the customers and our wallets will do the talkin.... im a fan of verdant green and the way he shows and taste tests everything... any breeder willing to put it all out there karma being another one...

 

[BlackBuds]

Breeding Cannabis is an art and like any form of art there is the mainstream that exists by reproducing the next big thing over and over (requires a perpetually young audience) and then there are the many artists that have a smaller following, make less money and produce less hype but are dedicated to their loyal followings that will only grow if they stay true to their art form and not cave in to greed.

 

[Hammerhead]

I don't claim to be a breeder never will. The seeds I produce will be as good or better than seeds I have bought from "Breeders". Many of the people I know are experiencing the same thing. This is why I started making my own. No one buys my seeds that I have not grown myself and picked a min of 5 others to test. The seeds I make are no worse than seeds bought from any "Breeder" I agree there are horrible seed makers that don't know what there doing. That can be said about many things.. IMO that's not the bulk of us. There are more great seeds makers than bad. If you make your selections properly from great genetics you will have some fantastic quality seeds. The proff is all around us. I have grown seeds made by the greats for decades.. I have found inferior plants in those seeds..

Breeders doing the work that requires years can still end up with a % of plants that don't perform. Cannabis tries to survive always.. I have said this many times. If you want to by seeds from a breeder by all means you can do that. If some decide to buy seeds from a maker that's there decision to do so. They know what they are buying. Today many of us making seeds have the same genetics the breeders are using to make seeds with. Some of us have better genetics. Many many more of the seeds I make are never seen by the public. Many of these are made from selections from pants in the 100's. These plants come with restrictions "NO SEED SALES". We all follow these restrictions. This is a small world burning bridges is not a smarts thing to do.

The bottom line for me is when I started getting better quality plants from seeds I made myself vs breeders gear. For me this is a mute subject. EVERYONE should be doing the same. I don't make seeds just to sale seeds. Seeds are made on a request basis only. If the public can buy a certain Cultivar at a seed bank I don't make those. If the public cant buy those seeds and I get a request to make them that's my market I will make those seeds. You will get quality from those seeds. IMO no one can guarantee a cultivar wont try to survive and pop naners. The smaller the seed lot size the better odds no one will see any. very large lots gives a much higher % someone will see them. Even in lines that have been worked for years. The odds are low but I have seen it happen. You should not be getting full blown hermie plants ever. Getting any line to not want to toss late flowering nanners is the hard part. If you grow enough of a single cultivar you will most likely see some.

I don't consider anyone a "Breeder" unless they have a PHD in the field or min 30 years doing breeding work of some kind doesn't have to be just cannabis... Nothing wrong with being a seed maker if your doing it properly. You can be a crappy seed maker just don't sale seeds lol.

 

[GuerillaJack]

^^thats right.... bring the fire breeders.... whether f16 or f1... just be honest with the customers and our wallets will do the talkin.... im a fan of verdant green and the way he shows and taste tests everything... any breeder willing to put it all out there karma being another one...

Exactly right........I like you!!! Tell the truth.....honesty gives you more respect from buyers than price. As long as you know what you are dealing with its pretty easy to plan for that. Having different phenos of a strain you like can be a good thing.

I have bought F1 on many occasions, Just dont expect massive variation on a strain I have paid a tenner for and your are telling us its an IBL / Stable.

 

[Pendleton]

"there's so many possibilities why limit them(bottleneck)"

This is such a gross misunderstanding of how genetics, populations, and stable varieties work, and it's so incredibly typical of the thought that goes on in cannabis forums.

Also, HH just for the record it's a "moot" subject, haha.

 

[sativa92]

Most, not all, are just super super poly fucking hybrids. and most show heterozygous traits.

 

[theJointedOne]

Ruderalis....meh

 

[Mikell]

I don't really buy at all, but I'll have a good laugh when the price drops to actual value and winnows off the bandwaggoners.

 

[Dropped Cat]

The hype.

I like making crosses, but that's a far cry from what a breeder should be.

A cultivar that sells for 8 euros a seed must do two things well.

Germinate, and represent the genetics involved in the cross.

Every time.

If that's too much to ask, then charge less, and don't be
such a little bitch about it.

It's really not grower fault that purchased gear fails to germinate or sucks balls.

I'd pay 15 euros each if the seeds fucking did what they say they would.

And how about a date stamp on the packs? If I wanted old seeds I'd
root around my couch and plant those I find there.

ugh.

This subject touched a nerve.

Carry on, lol.

 

[MDfinest]

YES, the hype. All these years planting bag seeds or seeds that were gifted me and I rarely come across herms, seeds that won't germinate, or even seeds that perform badly.

Crosses of crosses of crosses and everything seems to smoke pretty much the same now anyhow. Unless it is an extremely rare/unique strain that has been preserved for YEARS I'll just stick to getting my seeds from wherever and pheno hunting.

On top of that where did these breeders get the genetics that they work with from? Go back far enough and they really don't know. One guy has Thai X Afghan... another guy has Thai X Afghan and depending on what they do with it they become fairly different "strains". Eh... maybe Im not sophisticated enough for these convo's but if it will germinate I will plant it and I surely will avoid the elitism and the hype.

 

[UptownChill]

Hey Dropped Cat. Some observations from a small hobby grower for personal.

Here is the way I understand the levels of making seed.

1. Running seeds. Its so easy these days with the CS and Teresias Mist products out there to run your own seeds even from the great breeders stock. I've never done it, but the info and products are so readily available it sounds almost too easy. I think the commercial guys like to clone though. That kinda isolates desired traits and performance even more.

2. Pollin chucking. I've thought about it. Just as like a hobby. Taking a quality breeder strain and crossing it with another quality strain you like. Just as easy as running seeds. Still, I don't think this falls into the breeder category. Furthermore, there are already so many great strains that have been breeder created and tested available I couldn't run all that I would like to try in this lifetime. But, pollin chuckin sounds like fun.

3. Breeding. This is where the science comes in. Isolating genetic traits through breeding over and over the plants with the dominant properties you want to isolate. These are the professionals that are evolving MJ as we speak. I think it's a bit more difficult than just chucking some pollin. And I am really happy with the superb genetics available today even at the prices.

Hey man, I will say this. I stick with the well known breeders and strains. And other than a few freebs, all of my paid for beans have always cracked and done well. I have had a few freebs that were duds, but again, I did not choose those, I chose the breeders with a solid rep and they have always lived up to it. I honestly don't mind paying $10 a bean from these guys. They know their stuff and I appreciate having access to their expertise. And of course, some day I'll eventually get a bean that doesn't work out. The $10 cost for a bean is a few pennies or dimes a gram depending on the yield after harvest . It's really a negligible expense. BUT, consider I'm a very small grower of 1 or 2 plants for personal.

I am wary and question the morals of those who might buy designer beans from the quality breeders and do a seed run to sell on the cheap for their own gains. I would rather spend more to source directly from the breeders so they can continue to breed us new great strains in the future. See above. The cost is really negligible. There was someone in Cali selling homemade seeds. They lasted about 6 months and I am yet to see a completed journal from their seeds. They are out of business now as far as I know.

Anyway, good points bro. I love that we have these strains available. At least we have a choice in how we acquire seeds. Small timer like me the cost to buy great genes doesn't really matter.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

I consider myself somewhere between pollon chucker and breeder. I have also never sold a seed or claim to have created anything particularly new. What I do is run enough predictable clones to keep from going broke. Any extra space is for starting seeds. I like to buy a mix of old school strains, landrace, true breeding and a few new strains too. When choosing seeds to work with I like to look for what strain created what and try to choose the most likely candidate for the magic ingredients. I start as many seeds as I can for a year or so. I take males to a new location and flower and dry, cure and smoke. Any makes I like are set aside and saved for later. Eventually my veg spaces become a clusterfuck of stuff I don't wanna cull. So I start to chucking. This time it's several f1s, a few bx1s, a bx2 and a few f2s. As well as a ton of what I guess would be considered polyhybrid. As long as pollen is flying im crossing everything. Then I lower numbers down to my very favorites. And start over. I have goals in mind with several crosses and I'm always discovering flavors and highs I get new ideas for.

 

[waveguide]

3. Breeding. This is where the science comes in.

i did have a laugh