Wildlifer69
Member
Whatever said:
Thanks for the Reserch Whatever,
So in your opinion, would this be a Tbs per Gal of H202 "Every" Watering,or weekly/monthly ?
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Hydrogen Peroxide ???
- Thread starter Wildlifer69
- Start date
Thanks for the Reserch Whatever,
So in your opinion, would this be a Tbs per Gal of H202 "Every" Watering,or weekly/monthly ?
W
Whatever
Honestly...you're on your own. I don't have enough experience, either hands on or research, to offer guidance on this one. The information I mentioned from that patent was not about a growing environment but is still somewhat applicable to the discussion IMO.Wildlifer69 said:
If the consistency of your soil mix is acceptable and you are not over watering I think there's lots of other things to look at for improving things than using H202. I was intending on experimenting with H202/ORP for both hydro and soil grows but never got around to it.
Wildlifer69
Member
I think I'll wait this one out~At least till I'm satisfied with all the facts !
Keep the Info Coming ~ A person can never learn enough !!!
Thanks
Keep the Info Coming ~ A person can never learn enough !!!
Thanks
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beware of shops that will sell you peroxide in a clear container, as light degrades it, and all you'll be buying is expensive water.
Wildlifer69
Member
Thanks for the tip Growshopfrank.growshopfrank said:
Sounds like you talk from Experience.....
Light degradation is something that is talked about often if you research H2o2.
Something else you will find is that H2o2 is a natural item that is in rain water.
Wildfire...
It seems like you want someone to tell you exactly the amount of the product to use and give you a guarantee it is a good thing to do.
First thing...you should really take EVERYTHING you read here with a grain of salt. I am not disrespecting the site per se, it is just that any old stoner that is in a chatting mood can tell you lots of things. Maybe good, maybe not.
And just because a person has a high post count, and grows some fantastic looking weed does not mean what he tells you is right. Maybe, maybe not.
Just like this topic, and others like molasses...they are sort of controversial issues, and many times things get thrown all out of whack. The simple mistake of tsp vs tbs is one of the biggest things folks screw up. Many have no idea what they are doing when they spout off those abbrv. some don't know a tsp from a tbs. Some don't know better, some could care less.
Do some searching on the internet for places that discuss the use of H2o2 exclusively. There is a wealth of both credible and dubious info.
Something else you will find is that H2o2 is a natural item that is in rain water.
Wildfire...
It seems like you want someone to tell you exactly the amount of the product to use and give you a guarantee it is a good thing to do.
First thing...you should really take EVERYTHING you read here with a grain of salt. I am not disrespecting the site per se, it is just that any old stoner that is in a chatting mood can tell you lots of things. Maybe good, maybe not.
And just because a person has a high post count, and grows some fantastic looking weed does not mean what he tells you is right. Maybe, maybe not.
Just like this topic, and others like molasses...they are sort of controversial issues, and many times things get thrown all out of whack. The simple mistake of tsp vs tbs is one of the biggest things folks screw up. Many have no idea what they are doing when they spout off those abbrv. some don't know a tsp from a tbs. Some don't know better, some could care less.
Do some searching on the internet for places that discuss the use of H2o2 exclusively. There is a wealth of both credible and dubious info.
Wildlifer69
Member
hoosierdaddy said:
No thats not the case at all,
I like to see "All' the opinions,thoughts and Info that others are willing to share~ then sort thru and research the info that seems most Credible.
Alot of times I read things that I may not have thought of, opening my eyes to something possibly New & Useful......
These Posts are only a "Spark" to help lite the "Fire"!
Thanks
(for some odd reason tho, I trust your opinions more so than others)
W
Whatever
I was in the store today while looking for some fish ferts and stumbled upon a product by Safer called Oxygen Plus...lol. Here's a bit of info.
Instructions for OXYGEN-PLUS® Liquid Plant Food
SAFER® OXYGEN-PLUS® 1-2-1 is an indoor plant food that supplies the essential primary nutrients to promote vigorous plant growth and plentiful blooms. Overwatering is a common cause of house plant failure. SAFER® OXYGEN-PLUS® Plant Food helps prevent overwatering problems.
How It Works:
Air spaces in the soil supply essential oxygen for plant vigor. Overwatering fills these spaces cutting off life-giving oxygen. SAFER® OXYGEN-PLUS® keeps your plants vigorous by chemically releasing oxygen.
How to Use:
Use every time you water. Mix before each use, just 2 pumps per quart of water (1 tsp. Per qt.). Water plants as usual. If soil is dry, dampen with water before use. SAFER® OXYGEN-PLUS® Plant Food lets you water and feed all your plants regularly without worry.
CAUTION: Keep out of reach of children. Harmful if swallowed. Avoid contact with eyes. Store in cool place.
Guaranteed Analysis 1-2-1
Total Nitrogen (N) 1%
0.9% Urea Nitrogen
0.1% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5) 2%
Soluble Potash (K2O) 1%
Primary nutrients derived from: Urea, Urea Hydrogen Peroxide, Ammonium Phosphate, Phosphoric Acid and Potassium Hydroxide.
Also contains non plant food ingredient: 0.25% Available Oxygen derived from Urea Hydrogen Peroxide.
Wildfire...you can probably do some research and figure out how much 3% per gallon you'd need to equal the .25% available oxygen that Oxygen Plus delivers in that dose. I'm sure a company like Safer has done their research BUT seems like they might be gearing this product towards people using shitty potting soil for indoor plants that they constantly water cause they figure plants need to be drowned and rarely repot...lol.
I also found this bit of information with a little Googling:
When it comes to hydrogen peroxide therapy there seems to be only two points of view. Supporters consider it one of the greatest healing miracles of all time. Those opposed feel its ingestion is exceptionally dangerous, and only the foolhardy could think of engaging in such behavior. Before either condemning or endorsing hydrogen peroxide, let's take a real close look at what we're dealing with.
If any substance is interesting, it's hydrogen peroxide. Hydrogen peroxide should really be called hydrogen dioxide. Its chemical formula is H2O2. It contains one more atom of oxygen that does water (H20). By now everyone's aware of the ozone layer that surrounds the earth. Ozone consists of three atoms of oxygen (03). This protective layer of ozone is created when ultraviolet light from the sun splits an atmospheric oxygen molecule (02) into two single, unstable oxygen atoms. These single molecules combine with others to form ozone (03). Ozone isn't very stable. In fact, it will quickly give up that extra atom of oxygen to falling rainwater to form hydrogen peroxide (H202). (Bear with me: all this chemistry mumbo jumbo I'm going through actually will help you understand the importance of hydrogen peroxide.)
Helps Plants
It is this hydrogen peroxide in rainwater that makes it so much more effective than tap water when given to plants. With the increased levels of atmospheric pollution, however, greater amounts of H202 react with air-borne toxins and never reach the ground. To compensate for this, many farmers have been increasing crop yields by spraying them with diluted hydrogen peroxide (5 to 16 ounces of 35% mixed with 20 gallons of water per acre). You can achieve the same beneficial effect with your house plants by adding 1 ounce of 3% hydrogen peroxide (or 16 drops of 35% solution) to every quart of water you give your plants. (It can also be made into an excellent safe insecticide. Simply spray your plants with 8 ounces of 3% peroxide mixed with 8 ounces of white sugar and one gallon of water.)
In general off-the-shelf potting soil mixes suck. I don't want you to ever believe anything I ever say...just take it into consideration when you do your own research...CAVEAT EMPTOR!
Instructions for OXYGEN-PLUS® Liquid Plant Food
SAFER® OXYGEN-PLUS® 1-2-1 is an indoor plant food that supplies the essential primary nutrients to promote vigorous plant growth and plentiful blooms. Overwatering is a common cause of house plant failure. SAFER® OXYGEN-PLUS® Plant Food helps prevent overwatering problems.
How It Works:
Air spaces in the soil supply essential oxygen for plant vigor. Overwatering fills these spaces cutting off life-giving oxygen. SAFER® OXYGEN-PLUS® keeps your plants vigorous by chemically releasing oxygen.
How to Use:
Use every time you water. Mix before each use, just 2 pumps per quart of water (1 tsp. Per qt.). Water plants as usual. If soil is dry, dampen with water before use. SAFER® OXYGEN-PLUS® Plant Food lets you water and feed all your plants regularly without worry.
CAUTION: Keep out of reach of children. Harmful if swallowed. Avoid contact with eyes. Store in cool place.
Guaranteed Analysis 1-2-1
Total Nitrogen (N) 1%
0.9% Urea Nitrogen
0.1% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5) 2%
Soluble Potash (K2O) 1%
Primary nutrients derived from: Urea, Urea Hydrogen Peroxide, Ammonium Phosphate, Phosphoric Acid and Potassium Hydroxide.
Also contains non plant food ingredient: 0.25% Available Oxygen derived from Urea Hydrogen Peroxide.
Wildfire...you can probably do some research and figure out how much 3% per gallon you'd need to equal the .25% available oxygen that Oxygen Plus delivers in that dose. I'm sure a company like Safer has done their research BUT seems like they might be gearing this product towards people using shitty potting soil for indoor plants that they constantly water cause they figure plants need to be drowned and rarely repot...lol.
I also found this bit of information with a little Googling:
When it comes to hydrogen peroxide therapy there seems to be only two points of view. Supporters consider it one of the greatest healing miracles of all time. Those opposed feel its ingestion is exceptionally dangerous, and only the foolhardy could think of engaging in such behavior. Before either condemning or endorsing hydrogen peroxide, let's take a real close look at what we're dealing with.
If any substance is interesting, it's hydrogen peroxide. Hydrogen peroxide should really be called hydrogen dioxide. Its chemical formula is H2O2. It contains one more atom of oxygen that does water (H20). By now everyone's aware of the ozone layer that surrounds the earth. Ozone consists of three atoms of oxygen (03). This protective layer of ozone is created when ultraviolet light from the sun splits an atmospheric oxygen molecule (02) into two single, unstable oxygen atoms. These single molecules combine with others to form ozone (03). Ozone isn't very stable. In fact, it will quickly give up that extra atom of oxygen to falling rainwater to form hydrogen peroxide (H202). (Bear with me: all this chemistry mumbo jumbo I'm going through actually will help you understand the importance of hydrogen peroxide.)
Helps Plants
It is this hydrogen peroxide in rainwater that makes it so much more effective than tap water when given to plants. With the increased levels of atmospheric pollution, however, greater amounts of H202 react with air-borne toxins and never reach the ground. To compensate for this, many farmers have been increasing crop yields by spraying them with diluted hydrogen peroxide (5 to 16 ounces of 35% mixed with 20 gallons of water per acre). You can achieve the same beneficial effect with your house plants by adding 1 ounce of 3% hydrogen peroxide (or 16 drops of 35% solution) to every quart of water you give your plants. (It can also be made into an excellent safe insecticide. Simply spray your plants with 8 ounces of 3% peroxide mixed with 8 ounces of white sugar and one gallon of water.)
In general off-the-shelf potting soil mixes suck. I don't want you to ever believe anything I ever say...just take it into consideration when you do your own research...CAVEAT EMPTOR!
Wildlifer69
Member
BRAVO!
Great Read Whatever~ Now thats the kinda stuff that gets the mind to wondering (maybe Wandering) !!!
Thanks
Great Read Whatever~ Now thats the kinda stuff that gets the mind to wondering (maybe Wandering) !!!
Thanks
Is this in line with what we are reading?hoosierdaddy said:
well an old DWC grow was experiencing problems with the anaerobics and root rot-I added 2 tablesoppons to the 1.5 gallon reservoir and bingo!-overnight the slime had dissolved/roots were blindingly white and all the leaves were pointing straight up
it was the 3% solution from the grocery and i am a beleiver
it was the 3% solution from the grocery and i am a beleiver
HP will increase levels of dissolved carbon and produce more water soluble Cu.
3% HP is not the best idea because there are some stabilizers/buffers that are used to improve on HP stability at such low concentrations. The more concentrated the better. HP is bad for microbal life and beneficial fungi in soil unless it is in very low concentration similar to rainwater. HP will also remove lots of chlorine, some heavy metals, etc. That's what I recall on h2o2 at the moment. I am not sure if it is beneficial though and it'd be great to see some more practical reports from you guys.
3% HP is not the best idea because there are some stabilizers/buffers that are used to improve on HP stability at such low concentrations. The more concentrated the better. HP is bad for microbal life and beneficial fungi in soil unless it is in very low concentration similar to rainwater. HP will also remove lots of chlorine, some heavy metals, etc. That's what I recall on h2o2 at the moment. I am not sure if it is beneficial though and it'd be great to see some more practical reports from you guys.
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Levels of dissolved oxygen, not carbon.
The stabilizers that can be used in H2o2 probably won't be seen in any Hyd Perx in the US. If is has stabilizers in it, it will say so.
Saying that H2o2 is bad for microbial life and beneficial fungi in soil, unless it is a level equal to rainwater, is just a false statement.
Most of these items are simply things that get parroted on the net, with not much backup at all.
The stabilizers that can be used in H2o2 probably won't be seen in any Hyd Perx in the US. If is has stabilizers in it, it will say so.
Saying that H2o2 is bad for microbial life and beneficial fungi in soil, unless it is a level equal to rainwater, is just a false statement.
Most of these items are simply things that get parroted on the net, with not much backup at all.
Wildlifer69
Member
After talking with a Farmer Friend (Commercial Veggy/Livestock feed)
He stated he uses H2O2 regularly on all his crops at the rate of 3 Cups H2O2 35% Solution Per 25 Gallons of Water ~ My Math "Sucks!" but thats about 2 Tsp a Gallon, I think Any Mathmatictions out there?
Said he wasn't certain of increased yields,but did have better disease resistent plants which inturn would amount to more "Usable" crops ~
I translate that as:more usable crops= Increased Yields.
The Biology/Chemistry Prof. at the local College said as far as Bacteria & H202: The Aerobic Bacteria would benifit from the added Oxogen.
The Anaerobic would be "Adversly" Affected, and most likely die.
He suggested no more than 1/2Cup Per Gal @ 3% Solution,
This concentration would least likey affect Beneficial Fungus.
Please Note he said "Least" likely to affect !
He stated he uses H2O2 regularly on all his crops at the rate of 3 Cups H2O2 35% Solution Per 25 Gallons of Water ~ My Math "Sucks!" but thats about 2 Tsp a Gallon, I think
Any Mathmatictions out there?Said he wasn't certain of increased yields,but did have better disease resistent plants which inturn would amount to more "Usable" crops ~
I translate that as:more usable crops= Increased Yields.
The Biology/Chemistry Prof. at the local College said as far as Bacteria & H202: The Aerobic Bacteria would benifit from the added Oxogen.
The Anaerobic would be "Adversly" Affected, and most likely die.
He suggested no more than 1/2Cup Per Gal @ 3% Solution,
This concentration would least likey affect Beneficial Fungus.
Please Note he said "Least" likely to affect !
W
Whatever
I still don't agree it will not negatively affect aerobic bacteria but is dependent on the concentration. I agree that the liberated oxygen will help drive aerobic bacteria growth. Anaerobic bacteria should not be an issue at all in a well regulated grow with a decent soil mix or a decent hydro system. To liberate the oxygen the H202 needs to react with something...and sometimes that's an aerobic bacteria...lol. Aerobic bacteria are not immune to the sanitizing effects of H202. It's a known, proven sanitizer of aerobic bacteria but who cares if it kills 'some' because they reproduce so fast, in the right environment...which includes adequate oxygen, they'll just go into overdrive and bounce right back.Wildlifer69 said:
BTW...the H202 of rainwater is like 2.706 micro moles which converted to a percent is like 1.626e+24 parts per million. My math kind of sucks but that's virtually nothing. I may have interpreted wrong but seems like the H202 content of rainwater is detectable but negligible at best.
I agree with the fungus thing.
I'm no chemist by any means, but the oxygen molecule that is released is a free radical.
IMO the overdrive that you mention, Whatever, is exactly when we see the explosive growth when using H2o2. Especially in mid veg.
What I have noticed is the increased vigor over plants that don't get it.
Whow knows when we reach a point of deminished returns, but I have run the stuff at high levels from start to finish and have seen nothing that would make me think it is a bad thing in any way.
I am now working on my hydro system...and have never grown in water. All of my experiences, since casting my first seed sometime in the late 70's, have been in dirt, potting mixes, and I am now growing in 50/50 coco/FFOF.
I am real happy with the way it is performing, but it seems like the FFOF is simply robbing me from the rest of what the coco can do.
There will be no more FFOF or any other soil, or soiless, mixes for hoosierdaddy.
I will be rooting in 100% coco from now on and feeding with a hydro system.
I will also continue to use H2o2 and molasses as a regular staple.
Add 30cc gal PBP and you have my whole mix from root to flush.
IMO the overdrive that you mention, Whatever, is exactly when we see the explosive growth when using H2o2. Especially in mid veg.
What I have noticed is the increased vigor over plants that don't get it.
Whow knows when we reach a point of deminished returns, but I have run the stuff at high levels from start to finish and have seen nothing that would make me think it is a bad thing in any way.
I am now working on my hydro system...and have never grown in water. All of my experiences, since casting my first seed sometime in the late 70's, have been in dirt, potting mixes, and I am now growing in 50/50 coco/FFOF.
I am real happy with the way it is performing, but it seems like the FFOF is simply robbing me from the rest of what the coco can do.
There will be no more FFOF or any other soil, or soiless, mixes for hoosierdaddy.
I will be rooting in 100% coco from now on and feeding with a hydro system.
I will also continue to use H2o2 and molasses as a regular staple.
Add 30cc gal PBP and you have my whole mix from root to flush.
W
Whatever
Gawd...this is getting kind of old. I threw my first seed back in 1976, grew for about 4 years then took a 20 or so year break. My main point of contention is the idea/statement/whatever that aerobic bacteria will only benefit. I don't see it that way. They are not immune to die off from contact with H202 but can/will benefit greatly from 'proper' H202 application. I have no doubt about this.
I called a commercial testing lab today we use fairly regularly and chatted with the in-house microbial expert and some of the first words out of her mouth were...'H202 is a known sanitizer and will kill aerobic and anaerobic bacteria on contact'.
There's someone I'm gonna call soon and see if they can provide solid data detailing the whole cycle or at least shed more light on the subject. I'm pretty sure they know a thing or two about peroxides :wink:
Pure O2 is damaging to human lungs at high levels. The earths atmosphere actually doesn't have that much O2 at all (mostly N) and if you breath pure O2 it will scar human lung.
I believe the same thing happens with aerobic bacteria. Their "atmosphere" (rhizosphere) is a low level 02 environment. Increase the O2 to high levels and it starts to be harmful.
If humans can't assimilate pure O2 why would aerobic bacteria be able to?
We are both aerobic organisms.
I believe the same thing happens with aerobic bacteria. Their "atmosphere" (rhizosphere) is a low level 02 environment. Increase the O2 to high levels and it starts to be harmful.
If humans can't assimilate pure O2 why would aerobic bacteria be able to?
We are both aerobic organisms.
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