Humidity Is Too Low In Flower Room, Help Please!!

[Granger2]

These work well. I've been using one for over a year. Basically a micro swamp cooler. Good luck. -granger
http://www.grainger.com/product/ESSICK-AIR-PRODUCTS-Portable-Humidifier-2PYG2?s_pp=false

 

[somerandom]

These work well. I've been using one for over a year. Basically a micro swamp cooler. Good luck. -granger
http://www.grainger.com/product/ESSICK-AIR-PRODUCTS-Portable-Humidifier-2PYG2?s_pp=false

What size room,tent, or closet are you using this in? What is your starting RH?
Mine is really low 16%-20%I bought this "whole house" humidifier
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Essick-A...y-Humidifier-for-2500-sq-ft-EA1201/204364009#

and i run it non stop and still can't get the humidity passed 45-50% Guess i should have read the reviews first.

I'm going to try the ultra sonic fog heads or something like this(good reviews) http://www.homedepot.com/p/Vornado-...-SearchPLPHorizontal1-4-_-NA-_-202364089-_-N#

These work well. I've been using one for over a year. Basically a micro swamp cooler. Good luck. -granger
http://www.grainger.com/product/ESSICK-AIR-PRODUCTS-Portable-Humidifier-2PYG2?s_pp=false

 

[farmari]

Hey Frank....Obviously all who`ve responded haven`t researched "VPD" , cuz that`s why he`s posting this question about how to treat said problem without buying foggers or any type of humidification due to lack of budget....Frank learned this down in Vert-ville.....

70% RH till end of stretch , and as low below 50% as possible till end of cycle will make yas happy guaranteed......now....

DHF I hear what you're saying but how can a growroom be at +80F with 70% RH without getting serious mold in the building? My understanding is that any pinhole air leaks through the walls could mean a lot of condensation as the wall is adjacent to either a cooler room or a drastically cooler outdoors. Particularly with the typical American wood frame construction. In cold temperatures it is advised to keep the RH in a home below 40%, and that is at room temperature, which would mean an RH of around 25% at 80F or 20% at 85F.

Please enlighten me because advising people to put the RH to 70% in their grow seems risky when most organizations advise to keep indoor RH below 60% even in summer to prevent mold.

 

[Hemphrey Bogart]

DHF I hear what you're saying but how can a growroom be at +80F with 70% RH without getting serious mold in the building? My understanding is that any pinhole air leaks through the walls could mean a lot of condensation as the wall is adjacent to either a cooler room or a drastically cooler outdoors. Particularly with the typical American wood frame construction. In cold temperatures it is advised to keep the RH in a home below 40%, and that is at room temperature, which would mean an RH of around 25% at 80F or 20% at 85F.

Please enlighten me because advising people to put the RH to 70% in their grow seems risky when most organizations advise to keep indoor RH below 60% even in summer to prevent mold.

I'm curious about this too. I guess you could wrap the inside of the room with a vapor barrier (walls and ceilings) before the drywall or whatever is put up. Insulating the walls would probably help too.

HB.

 

[the gnome]

sounds like your wrapping your head around it WT
do some reading in jack mayoffers thread in the coco forums
"shits about to blow up around here"
higher temps and RH, he does it and his results are impressive.
I never had any issue with vpd/humdity until i went sealed w/co2.
that's when i had to learn quick about *the balance* of RH and temps,
plant numbers size and qty. how the number of lamps affect the balance.
Its like a juggling act at times,
week to week even day to day as plants grow and transpire more or adding another lamp
have an impact on that balance
but when you get it right you can see the plants singing 24/7
you know they're happyhappy.
when the leaves are perked up in the classic praying position is indication
everything is firing on all cylinders.

before going sealed I would see my plants like this occasionally
I couldn't figure out what i was doing, did or not doing but since I learned
to keep the balance steady,
when i walk in the room everyday the 1st thing i do is check temps and RH, and when i look around
I see happy plants

 

[MichaelVick]

Did you guys get your humidity up? Did that fix your problems???

I think I may be having the same issue:

Sealed room. 30,000btu Mini-split AC. 4k NON-air cooled lights. CO2. 84degF peak. RH stays 25-40%. I get plants that taco and show signs of a nutrient problem. I have tried all kinds of things with the nutes to no avail. They seem to be really hungry and the nutrient ppm drops steadily but when I feed them more they have discoloration and eventually necrosis.

Any ideas? I am starting to consider the VPD thing...

What did you use to raise the humidity effectively? I already have a santa fe classic dehuy so i am not worried about it getting too high. And I have a little chunk of change to throw at it...

 

[MichaelVick]

sounds like your wrapping your head around it WT
do some reading in jack mayoffers thread in the coco forums
"shits about to blow up around here"
higher temps and RH, he does it and his results are impressive.
I never had any issue with vpd/humdity until i went sealed w/co2.
that's when i had to learn quick about *the balance* of RH and temps,
plant numbers size and qty. how the number of lamps affect the balance.
Its like a juggling act at times,
week to week even day to day as plants grow and transpire more or adding another lamp
have an impact on that balance
but when you get it right you can see the plants singing 24/7
you know they're happyhappy.
when the leaves are perked up in the classic praying position is indication
everything is firing on all cylinders.

before going sealed I would see my plants like this occasionally
I couldn't figure out what i was doing, did or not doing but since I learned
to keep the balance steady,
when i walk in the room everyday the 1st thing i do is check temps and RH, and when i look around
I see happy plants

Gnome did u get one of those hydrofoggers or similar? How is that working for you?

I am like you. I did not have many problems until I switched to a sealed room...

Any knowledge of "swamp coolers"? I hear they produce humidity and cool the air but I don't know anything else about 'em. Are they big? Expensive?

 

[the gnome]

hey vick, read my posts.
i ordered a humidifyer from PLH for a couple hundred.

your RH is extremely low for veg, you have a bad case of VPD.
I'll bet the plants look like they have a bad mag def.
untill i got my humidifier i used a garden sprayer
and sprayed the plants down good and the floor to.
i had to do 2-3 times a day to keep my RH above 60%
within 2-3 days i saw a big difference with the plants
you need to do something, anything , whatever to raise the humidity asap,
toss some bed sheets on the floor and wet em down to keep humidity up longer than just wetting the floor.
sorry i didn't see this earlier

btw, by the time i got my humidifier the plants had grown enuff to transpire eenuff to push my RH just over 50%
i used the unit for about a week and didn't need it any more.
room dynamics had changed enuff within a few weeks to completely fix the VPD

 

[Wendull C.]

I just pour water on the floor. Before I got a fogger on a gravity feed anyway.

 

[queequeg152]

wth respect to residential HVAC... low humidity issues are mostly caused by poor air sealing in dry colder climates.

adding additional humidification can actually cause grievous issues in some structures as additional moisture in the air causes additional condensation inside wall assemblies, which in turn can turn a mild mildew problem, into a serious mold and perhaps even a rot issue.

in a grow room i would think you have more than ample humidification already. Personally, id suggest a serious look at air sealing, as a profound lack thereof can cost you in areas other than humidity.

 

[dynamitejack]

Super old thread, but any way if you are having low humidity issues get an evaporative cooler. I have one and it takes my humidity from 40% to 70-75% in about 15 mins. I actually have to put it on a timer because it will get to 90-100% no problem.

LINK!

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/189-5060947-0715857?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=evap+cooler

 

[MichaelVick]

hey vick, read my posts.
i ordered a humidifyer from PLH for a couple hundred.

your RH is extremely low for veg, you have a bad case of VPD.
I'll bet the plants look like they have a bad mag def.
untill i got my humidifier i used a garden sprayer
and sprayed the plants down good and the floor to.
i had to do 2-3 times a day to keep my RH above 60%
within 2-3 days i saw a big difference with the plants
you need to do something, anything , whatever to raise the humidity asap,
toss some bed sheets on the floor and wet em down to keep humidity up longer than just wetting the floor.
sorry i didn't see this earlier

btw, by the time i got my humidifier the plants had grown enuff to transpire eenuff to push my RH just over 50%
i used the unit for about a week and didn't need it any more.
room dynamics had changed enuff within a few weeks to completely fix the VPD

Yep Gnome... My symptoms are curling leaves and what looks like a mag deficiency... I have been battling this ever since I went to a sealed room with a mini-split. Banging my head against a wall for many months now... Harvest after harvest that was not right... I have tried adjusting the nutes in many, many different ways to no avail. Sprayed for bugs and tried other things. Now I am starting to think the low humidity is the key. I fucking hope so. Sick of having shitty harvests after putting in lots of work...

When I built the room I thought I went a little big getting a 3,000 btu mini-split. But since I had no good way to air-cool the lights I decided to leave them NON air-cooled and just buy a larger AC unit. I have four 1kWatt HPS bulbs burning in a 14' x 14' room and my mini-split still can't get the temps down below 85deg. So it pretty much runs all the time...hence the low humidity.

So I just planted some new clones in the flower room. The RH has been around 30-35% with the flower room door open for a few days. The plants haven't really looked happy (as usual). But I ordered this evap cooler and it just got delivered today: http://www.air-n-water.com/product/ec220w.htm#resp-tabs2

Tonight I have been running this thing inside the sealed room (just recirculating the humidified air). It has been running for three hours straight now. The good news is it raised my humidity up to 50%. The bad news is it hasn't helped cool the room one bit. It is still at 85deg as usual. I ordered the evap cooler instead of a fogger because I was hoping it might bring my temps down a few degrees along with humidifying the room. All it did was humidify the room (only up to 50%) and the thing is HUGE. So I think I'll be sending it back.

I am going to try a fogger. I just can't decide which one to get.

Gnome - is this the one you got? : https://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/ideal-air-humidifier-commercial-grade-p-3675.html

Do you think that will be enough for my room? For $229 it is rated at 0.4 gallons/hour. And then it sounds like I'll need a humidity controller which is another $75-150. Is that what you use?

I am debating on going with the larger hydrofogger (1.05 gallons/hour) http://www.hydrofogger.com/inc/sdetail/35

But then I'll be spending $550 vs $300 (w humidity controller)...

Everyone feel free to chime in. I really don't know how much humidification I need. But the evap cooler rated at cooling 650 square feet isn't doing enough...

 

[the gnome]

something you said isn't right with VPD, in bloom you don't need humidity over 50%.
is your harvests screwed up from the plants not growing right from veg?
here's something else to consider
you may have something off gassing in your room, either from the build out or something like hosing.

couple Qs
what kind of Co2 gen are you using?
if propane,check the burners and make sure you flame is blue.

you said your using a 3000btu mini,
i don't think make em that small, do you mean 30,000btu
but if that's what you have there's no way it will cool that room even with out lamps.
if your using 4-1000w non-cooled you need at least 20,000btu

if you are using a 30,000btu your over sized could have probs,
but it will still cool the room.

did a HVAC install the AC?
is it blowing cold air, and how cold... i use a laser temp gun, every grow should have one.
have you checked the filters?
it doesn't take much to clog em and performance drops like a rock
is the blower pushing enuff air out,
visually check to see whats going on,
mine got so covered in mold once it barely blew air out
85-90 is the best it would cool.


yes thats the humidifier i have, it worked fine for my 14x20ft room
the controller i use is a green air RHC R
if you do have VPD 70% is ideal in veg+1st 2-3wks bloom.
anything over 60% is fine,
@55% i was still good, no symptoms but you wnat that 70% with Co2 or your not utilizing full advantage of increased Co2


check out this VPD chart,

you don't have to be right in the middle
of the center green Zone.
anywhere within the white secondary zone is fine


here's what my VPD looked like

tube blower assembly cover with mold.
my temps stayed @85-90

 

[olekingkole]

Gnome, what brand is your mini-split and how did you get that fan out? Mine is a Ramsond and I have to clean the darn thing in place. Removing it requires disassembling the air handler. What a pain!
Do the Hydrofoggers require demineralized water?

 

[the gnome]

I run 2 mini split, a mr slim and breeze as a secondary.
it wasn't too bad getting the tube blower out of the mitsu
but way too much shit to pull apart with the friedrich.
cleaning it in place is a real time consuming pain.

i called mitsu cust service tech help, he showed me a way to keep from taking a ton of crap apart, i had it out in 5 min, and about 10 to get it back together.

no, my fogger ran on straight tap.
I don't recall the instruuctions saying anything bout using ro or distilled

hope this helps Okole

 

[olekingkole]

I burnt through several ultrasonic foggers by using well water. After a while the salt deposits rendered them useless, plus there's the problem of white dust. I'm guessing the same would happen with hydrofoggers if you ran them long enough. For me, the bottom line is no foggers w/0 ro or distilled.

 

[MichaelVick]

something you said isn't right with VPD, in bloom you don't need humidity over 50%.
is your harvests screwed up from the plants not growing right from veg?
here's something else to consider
you may have something off gassing in your room, either from the build out or something like hosing.

couple Qs
what kind of Co2 gen are you using?
if propane,check the burners and make sure you flame is blue.

you said your using a 3000btu mini,
i don't think make em that small, do you mean 30,000btu
but if that's what you have there's no way it will cool that room even with out lamps.
if your using 4-1000w non-cooled you need at least 20,000btu

if you are using a 30,000btu your over sized could have probs,
but it will still cool the room.

did a HVAC install the AC?
is it blowing cold air, and how cold... i use a laser temp gun, every grow should have one.
have you checked the filters?
it doesn't take much to clog em and performance drops like a rock
is the blower pushing enuff air out,
visually check to see whats going on,
mine got so covered in mold once it barely blew air out
85-90 is the best it would cool.


yes thats the humidifier i have, it worked fine for my 14x20ft room
the controller i use is a green air RHC R
if you do have VPD 70% is ideal in veg+1st 2-3wks bloom.
anything over 60% is fine,
@55% i was still good, no symptoms but you wnat that 70% with Co2 or your not utilizing full advantage of increased Co2


check out this VPD chart,
View Image
you don't have to be right in the middle
of the center green Zone.
anywhere within the white secondary zone is fine


here's what my VPD looked like
View Image
tube blower assembly cover with mold.
my temps stayed @85-90
View Image

Thanks a lot for all the help and advice Gnome!

I'll try to answer your questions but I'll need to investigate a bit more:

My problems start from the very beginning of veg as soon as I move them from my mom/clone room into the flower room. The problems look similar to your pictures but I have yellowing/dying throughout the entire leaf in streaky patterns and spots (not just the edges). When they get bad at the end of the cycle entire leafs dye. My new growth will usually look really skinny like yours. I have posted some pics of some of my previous grows below. The problems seem to continue through veg until the end of flower but maybe it's just enough damage early on to be a problem through-out. Not sure...

I have considered the off-gassing thing. Not sure what would cause that. I do have some manifolds made out of black vinyl tubing I got at the local grow store back in 2013. But i thought that issue was corrected many years ago. And I haven't really "built out" the room much. It's just sheet rock walls with builder grade paint on them and a concrete slab floor that was dyed and sealed (by previous owner for asthetics). The floor is not covered (I just spill shit on it and don't worry about it.

I am using a Sentinel 10-burner CO2 gen. Only running 5 burners on it. Last time I checked all burners that were turned on were burning blue. But I will double-check this. If the humidity increase doesn't fix my problems I am going to try removing the burner.

You were correct: My split is a Fujitsu 31,500btu. It was installed by an HVAC professional. It is blowing 52deg air out pretty well. I think it's blowing as hard as it should but I do need to check the filter. BUT I have noticed that the blower wheel has accumulated some black ash looking stuff that it spits out occasionally. It's only a little bit occasionally and I figured it was some type of mold so I haven't worried too much about it.

I have seen the chart you posted. I am shooting for the green but will settle for the white. I ordered the full-size hydrofogger last night

 

[MichaelVick]

 

[olekingkole]

MV, are you seeing this problem from multiple strains or plants grown from seed? Otherwise, your problem might be the plant rather than low humidity.

 

[the gnome]

You were correct: My split is a Fujitsu 31,500btu. It was installed by an HVAC professional. It is blowing 52deg air out pretty well. I think it's blowing as hard as it should but I do need to check the filter. BUT I have noticed that the blower wheel has accumulated some black ash looking stuff that it spits out occasionally. It's only a little bit occasionally and I figured it was some type of mold so I haven't worried too much about it.

ok... I think i just nailed your temp problem.
I'll bet the tube blower is clogged with mold.
the ash the blows out occasionally is mold.

I had the exact same symptoms, and started see this what looked like black/white ash
look at the pic i posted above, you'll see the mold all over the blower.
my filters got clogged, after the rooms 1st run, 5 months later I checked the filters and they were clogged
the diminished air flow allowed mold to get a foothold on the tube blower and with the hi RH the mold spun out of control
I started a thread on it,
I'll try to find it....



as far as off gassing things like great stuff can foam insulation and the like off gasses like crazy until it cures.
other things do also.
if your humidifeir doesn't help pull a plant or 2 out of the room and see if it recovers.