Humboldt Growers Association introduces medical cannabis ordinance

[zen_trikester]

Geeze guys, we are arguing the finer points of a document we haven't even read yet! Hydro, I don't think they are asking to tax, inspect, or require permits for personal med gardens. When someone is growing more than personal it is commercial. Be it a collective or whatever, if you are selling the weed it is commercial. Inspections will be in place to be sure that people are utilizing safe building codes, and not stealing water or power. They will also inspect for safe product and maybe even potency, who knows. Either way this adds legitimacy.

as for the two years I think that is a brilliant move to keep the big corporations out. It is exactly what they should do IMHO and only something that would be put into legislation if it was written by a team of concerned growers who are looking to preserve their heritage. If 19 passes there will be a land rush to be sure. Property owners are going to be rolling in it.

Jed

 

[kmk420kali]

When someone is growing more than personal it is commercial. Be it a collective or whatever, if you are selling the weed it is commercial.

Bro, the Article posted doesn't say anything about selling-- It is about Medical Cultivation-- If it is over 100 sq ft, you will have to pay--

Under the ordinance, a permit for a quarter-acre garden site would cost $20,000.

Do you think it is fair to put that burden on Collectives...such as WAMM??
Good Legislation consists of give and take..such as with Prop 19--
This has no "Give"...it is all "Take"--

 

[Hydrosun]

Because its practical. Our current financial system is less than free. would you agree? So, what i'm saying is i think it would be better for the farmers in the county to have this framework, rather than to fall prey to the evils of the "free market" and have their brand destroyed by the sub-par out door crap grown by people who haven't been there.

Like i said a few months ago. The growers should establish these standards. Not the government. But without someone doing it, big money will come in and play long ball. They will buy up land and very well could destroy the community.
With some sort of system in place to certify the farms in the region, they all benefit. Example is the champagne. A french guy in Champagne can sell his wares as he pleases. But if he wants to Call it Champagne he has to get certified. This is what keeps the prices high. Keeps the business profitable and keeps the region sustained.
I'm not well versed enough in wine/history politics but this has been played out already in that industry. People were trying to undercut the market by calling genetics similar to those grown in Champagnes or Bordeaux; Champagne or Bordeaux. Obviously the indigenous growers didn't want this as it weakens their brand, and lowers their profit margins. This is my goal for the region and the world. I want Organically grown fair trade certified Jamaican/Afghanistani/Thai Weed/Hash/Sticks sold legally world wide.

And where does it say the buyer has to live their for two years. and even if it did this protects the local economy. Want some outdoor Humboldt and you gotta see someone from Humboldt; no knock-off a la Louie Vitton. Again i wish it was consumer driven and not government but atleast this puts it out there and can be improved through court challenges and the like.



edit: there is a filling fee to be governor of California (around $3K) and in other states, Alabama being one, you must be a resident for one year.

Communism was practical for the USSR, it just didn't work. It may be better for CURRENT farmers to have a DISCRIMINATORY AND PROTECTIONIST framework, but that doesn't make it moral or constitutional.

What the hell does FALL PREY to the free market mean? Isn't their brand good enough that they could stand up to all comers? What is out there protecting these GOOD FARMERS from those BAD FARMERS that you need to lock out for two years? If the GOOD FARMERS can survive NOW without this TWO year wait by others, how is it moral?

To many people ALL outdoor crap is sub par when compared to top shelf indoor. And a lot of these old time out door growers produce CRAP now

I'm all for a private group having the FREEDOM to associate and form their own standards of membership and product that will get their seal of approval; however these "Good Housekeepers of Weed" have no fucking right to use the government as a gun to exhort their will on others.

If there shit were actually any good it would already have a premium following and the farmers would receive premium prices.

The fact that farmers are spending more time begging government for restrictions on competition instead of building their brand, makes me think that their brand is of NO LONG TERM VALUE.

You want to be part of the Champaign certification team or the Emerald Triangle certification team; have at it.

BUT Please Please Please leave the PIGS and Politicians out of it!!!!!

 

[Hydrosun]

as for the two years I think that is a brilliant move to keep the big corporations out. It is exactly what they should do IMHO and only something that would be put into legislation if it was written by a team of concerned growers who are looking to preserve their heritage. If 19 passes there will be a land rush to be sure. Property owners are going to be rolling in it.

Jed

Not letting blacks or women vote was also a brilliant move that kept citizens from competing with the chosen White Male Ruling Class. Unfortunately some brilliant ideas are IMMORAL, UNCONSTITUTIONAL, and DISCRIMINATORY. Who gives a shit if you don't like corporations or the CA MMJ patient from San Diego. All Americans have a right to live and work where they please.

Instead of TWO years why not MUST HAVE BEEN BORN IN THE COUNTY, that would really protect the people who where there first; but be equally immoral.

 

[binaryfission]

So, HydroSUn..... what about the possibility that this local government is for the people and by the people? Is is impossible to have the government play a positive? I mean technically all the states are protectionist against one another in some way...

If there was no fee for a collective which keeps 100% of the bud produced, could you get on with this?

Falling prey to the free market means that in the world of super computer, statistical analysis, and things like nano stock trading, with out significant money you are at a disadvantage. Lawyers, consultants, and bank loans are hard to get with out capitol. The "free market" where Hill Billy Jim competes against Monsanto is less than fair or free. (The US dollar is quite possibly the most regulated item on earth, it is not free and is created out of debt. It is the foundation of evil.)

 

[Hydrosun]

So, HydroSUn..... what about the possibility that this local government is for the people and by the people? Is is impossible to have the government play a positive? I mean technically all the states are protectionist against one another in some way...

If there was no fee for a collective which keeps 100% of the bud produced, could you get on with this?

Falling prey to the free market means that in the world of super computer, statistical analysis, and things like nano stock trading, with out significant money you are at a disadvantage. Lawyers, consultants, and bank loans are hard to get with out capitol. The "free market" where Hill Billy Jim competes against Monsanto is less than fair or free. (The US dollar is quite possibly the most regulated item on earth, it is not free and is created out of debt. It is the foundation of evil.)

1) Governments for and by the people may not discriminate against other American citizens. State and Local governments throw up UNCONSTITUTIONAL protectionist restrictions all the time, and they are struck down by the courts almost as often. It is not IMPOSSIBLE for the government to play a positive role; it is just HIGHLY IMPROBABLE that they will EVER do more GOOD than HARM.

2) Like I said if there were no fees or restrictions in 215, 420, or Kelly then the counties have right to impose one on patients. If under 19 this county chose no permits under 100sq' and permit for NON MED growers over 100sq' seems fine (but still no right to regulate STATE governed MMJ). San Diego patient or someone from Montana can move in and still grow their meds.

3) Small CA growers don't have to compete with Monsanto yet, but they do have to compete with Richard Lee and 60,000sq' warehouses. I agree with you about the evils of a fiat currency controlled by the elites. Their paper dollars and paper rules are meant to control the lives of other humans without having to work. I'm all for ditching their scam and paying in silver and gold.

So to sum up, some commercial regulation is acceptable to me; but almost ANY restriction on how you use your property is abhorrent to my nature and I'll stand up for your right to quiet enjoyment until the day I die.

 

[♥Mo♥]

Way more questions? than answers.Has anybody done an EIR in Humboldt on a 1/4 acre or more grow yet?

I was thinking the same thing. $20,000 for a permit to grow on a 1/4 acre. Sounds like the permit would cost close to half your crop/harvest. A 1/4 acre is really not that big for that kind of money.

 

[binaryfission]

1) Governments for and by the people may not discriminate against other American citizens. State and Local governments throw up UNCONSTITUTIONAL protectionist restrictions all the time, and they are struck down by the courts almost as often. It is not IMPOSSIBLE for the government to play a positive role; it is just HIGHLY IMPROBABLE that they will EVER do more GOOD than HARM.

So would you consider these things getting struck down "democracy in action"? "Elites" propose things, community says no through the courts, then said community co-ops the elites ideas and makes them better, and constitutional?? Hmm... (Sorry if this is slightly off topic.)

I agree with what you are saying. I'm glad you stuck to principle. Thanks.

EDIT: and now that me and HydroSun hashed it out, can we get clarification on who will encompass this "trade organization?" Is it in fact consumer driven? And is it mandatory? (might have been good questions earlier...HA...

 

[DHF]

Sorry Hydrosun.................

 

[Hydrosun]

Hydrosun......I`m sorry but........If I was gonna sell all my shit and move 3000 miles just ta ableta grow dope legally after 2 yrs of local residency in the "Mecca" of outdoor organic marijuana cultivation, then I`d be more than grateful for the opportunity to do so while sleeping well at night waitin for my probation period ta be over.....and while I was at it.......

Well happy days for you, but I'll still stand up for your right to grow on day ONE. Fuck their Protectionist two year waiting period, and as for mecca (so fucking funny I can't even make an analogy).

Out door shit gets turned down everyday all over the west, thank god there are those on the East that will smoke that shit.

 

[zen_trikester]

Bro, the Article posted doesn't say anything about selling-- It is about Medical Cultivation-- If it is over 100 sq ft, you will have to pay--



Do you think it is fair to put that burden on Collectives...such as WAMM??
Good Legislation consists of give and take..such as with Prop 19--
This has no "Give"...it is all "Take"--

KM, I have found that I normally agree with 99% of whatever you say in these threads... lets hash this when we actually see the wording. I know what we are reading is not talking about selling, but 100sq ft for personal usage? In my opinion people who need medicine should be able to get it without paying through the nose, or even better for free. That is how I roll and I respect anyone who does it as well... I don't know how this may effect that, but if someone is doing it for money, or doing it on a big scale, or doing it outside of the reasonable rules of property ownership and utility usage, they should be shown the error of their ways, and/or should be paying into the local economy. That is all I am saying. I don't wish unfair fees on med patients and I doubt the Humboldt group does either, but we will know if we get to read the fine print. Agree to disagree until we see that? I promise I will listen and consider your interpretations of what is written.

Not letting blacks or women vote was also a brilliant move that kept citizens from competing with the chosen White Male Ruling Class. Unfortunately some brilliant ideas are IMMORAL, UNCONSTITUTIONAL, and DISCRIMINATORY. Who gives a shit if you don't like corporations or the CA MMJ patient from San Diego. All Americans have a right to live and work where they please.

Instead of TWO years why not MUST HAVE BEEN BORN IN THE COUNTY, that would really protect the people who where there first; but be equally immoral.

Go work in Humboldt hydro! Nobody is saying you can't! You are trying to make a point using unrelated rhetoric. Again, I see the 2 year thing as a way to keep the big businesses out of Humboldt and allow the current Humboldt growers a chance to get their foot in the door of upcoming cannabusiness. Yes this was written as a 215 thing but I think we all know it was inspired by prop 19. If you are growing more than you need and selling the rest you are commercial. If you are giving the rest away then you are a saint and I thank you for doing what many of us simply can't do without risking our very lives.

There is nothing here that says you can't grow or ride the bus Ms. Parks... it says that you can't have a commercial operation in Humboldt, put the Humboldt stamp on your product, or otherwise claim your shit is Humboldt grown unless you have been one of the guys in the trenches. It is FAR more of a respect thing and a quality protection thing, than it is a black people on the back of the bus thing... You are blowing this one WAY out into left field hydro. You are simply an antagonist and have yet to agree with anything having to do with the legalization of MJ unless it is a "pipe dream" free-for-all. There has to be order, there has to be regulation, and there has to be voter suport. It really is that simple! I personally have HUGE respect for any growers in any comunity who are being proactive and working within the system to maintain what they have without supporting prohibition!



Jed

 

[kmk420kali]

lets hash this when we actually see the wording.

Fair enough-- I'll refrain until someone can come up with a complete reading of the Ordinance--

 

[Hydrosun]

Go work in Humboldt hydro! Nobody is saying you can't! You are trying to make a point using unrelated rhetoric. Again, I see the 2 year thing as a way to keep the big businesses out of Humboldt and allow the current Humboldt growers a chance to get their foot in the door of upcoming cannabusiness. Yes this was written as a 215 thing but I think we all know it was inspired by prop 19. If you are growing more than you need and selling the rest you are commercial. If you are giving the rest away then you are a saint and I thank you for doing what many of us simply can't do without risking our very lives.

There is nothing here that says you can't grow or ride the bus Ms. Parks... it says that you can't have a commercial operation in Humboldt, put the Humboldt stamp on your product, or otherwise claim your shit is Humboldt grown unless you have been one of the guys in the trenches. It is FAR more of a respect thing and a quality protection thing, than it is a black people on the back of the bus thing... You are blowing this one WAY out into left field hydro. You are simply an antagonist and have yet to agree with anything having to do with the legalization of MJ unless it is a "pipe dream" free-for-all. There has to be order, there has to be regulation, and there has to be voter suport. It really is that simple! I personally have HUGE respect for any growers in any comunity who are being proactive and working within the system to maintain what they have without supporting prohibition!



Jed

How can I go work in Humboldt if I am not allowed to buy a place and grow my own meds on my own land without a permit and I can't get a permit until I've lived there for more than 2 years?

You say this is inspired by 19, but the taxes / fees apply to CURRENT MED PATIENTS.

If a patient may grow their own or have a caregiver grow it for them, or be a member of a collective that grows for the patients of the collective; how does the county gain a right to regulate or tax these medical gardens?

You mention the line being selling (or distributing for profit outside of the collective) we'll if this is your test or line shouldn't you oppose this HGA plan until it is amended to focus on selling Humboldt grown as opposed to the current focus on taxing gardens irrespective of their commercial or medical purpose?

 

[Hydrosun]

Fair enough-- I'll refrain until someone can come up with a complete reading of the Ordinance--

Are the stoners good enough to draft legislation but forgetful enough to get a PDF of the LANGUAGE out to the internet?

Google this subject and MANY news articles come up all with the same MED, 2yr, and 100sq' quotes. But I can't find a link to the HGA homepage or the ACTUAL txt of the proposed regulation.

 

[kmk420kali]

Are the stoners good enough to draft legislation but forgetful enough to get a PDF of the LANGUAGE out to the internet?

Google this subject and MANY news articles come up all with the same MED, 2yr, and 100sq' quotes. But I can't find a link to the HGA homepage or the ACTUAL txt of the proposed regulation.

Oh trust me, I checked before I posted that-- From what I seen, I oppose this...but it is only fair to wait til I can see the whole thing, before I really get into this....I mean, I can post "parts" of Prop 19, and make it look like something it is not-- So yeah...I'll wait, for further comment--

 

[zen_trikester]

How can I go work in Humboldt if I am not allowed to buy a place and grow my own meds on my own land without a permit and I can't get a permit until I've lived there for more than 2 years?

You say this is inspired by 19, but the taxes / fees apply to CURRENT MED PATIENTS.

If a patient may grow their own or have a caregiver grow it for them, or be a member of a collective that grows for the patients of the collective; how does the county gain a right to regulate or tax these medical gardens?

You mention the line being selling (or distributing for profit outside of the collective) we'll if this is your test or line shouldn't you oppose this HGA plan until it is amended to focus on selling Humboldt grown as opposed to the current focus on taxing gardens irrespective of their commercial or medical purpose?

Ahhh you want to own a cannabis production business. Now I get it! I thought you said you wanted to live and work in Humboldt since all Americans CAN live and work wherever they want, including Humboldt. I just looked through Craigslist to be sure...

I stated my opinion above and neither I nor you have any idea how my opinion fits in with this proposed legislation. One opinion I know for sure won't change, is that growers all over Cali should be doing these same things. This is a perfect example of growers who are concerned for their welfare and are getting off their asses to make sure they have a place in the new face of California Cannabusiness. Whoever isn't doing something like this is a fool and will have no right to bitch if they get left in the dust. In the case of the HGA they threw out a lot of bones by allowing inspections and a pretty fair chunk of change for the permits. They are some smart cookies imho.

From the standpoint of 19, every municipality is a blank canvas at this point and people need to be proactive in painting that canvas if they want to be a part of the Cali MJ boom. If for no other reason, getting your face in front of local decision makers and presenting them with a well laid out proposal is going to allow them to see YOU as an intelligent, legitimate businessman and that type of networking is going to go a long way if you ever end up face to face with that guy again. He may ultimately see you as his guy on the inside. This also makes the movement look very, very good to those on the outside. These guys got some good press out of this, and that is positive press for the movement.

Jed

 

[Hydrosun]

... growers all over Cali should be doing these same things. This is a perfect example of growers who are concerned for their welfare and are getting off their asses to make sure they have a place in the new face of California Cannabusiness. Whoever isn't doing something like this is a fool and will have no right to bitch if they get left in the dust. In the case of the HGA they threw out a lot of bones by allowing inspections and a pretty fair chunk of change for the permits. They are some smart cookies imho.

From the standpoint of 19, every municipality is a blank canvas at this point and people need to be proactive in painting that canvas if they want to be a part of the Cali MJ boom. If for no other reason, getting your face in front of local decision makers and presenting them with a well laid out proposal is going to allow them to see YOU as an intelligent, legitimate businessman and that type of networking is going to go a long way if you ever end up face to face with that guy again. He may ultimately see you as his guy on the inside. This also makes the movement look very, very good to those on the outside. These guys got some good press out of this, and that is positive press for the movement.

Jed

So protectionism is good and every grower should find a group to align with and exclude all others? This sounds like some of the lamest shit ever.

Our fundamental disagreement is that you think government should be "Proactive" and I think that government has extremely LIMITED power and should do NOTHING except those VERY FEW enumerated items in the constitution.

I know that collectivists and stateists are the norm even in a weed growing community. How sad for me.

 

[Hydrosun]

Ahhh you want to own....

Yez sah masta iza wants ta own, just liks u massa. I knowz iz born wrong and knot fromz herz bu plz cant I own toz?

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Yez sah masta iza wants ta own, just liks u massa. I knowz iz born wrong and knot fromz herz bu plz cant I own toz?

Jar-Jar Binks ?

 

[Hydrosun]

Jar-Jar Binks ?

Someone said say my name was Toby, can't remember who. As I've said before I don't like slang and never use NON-words; but I thought my poor attempt at supplicant speak might carry the point.