What's new
  • ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!

Human hands 'designed to throw punches'

Storm Shadow

Well-known member
Veteran
http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/68212-human-hands-designed-to-throw-punches

Opposable thumbs: one of the features that separates us from other apes, a contributor to the tool use that's made us the dominant species on the planet. Makes you feel quite smug, right? Well, not so fast.
punchbag.jpg
A new study indicates that the real evolutionary advantage of being able to cross your thumb over your palm is that it lets you hit people hard without hurting yourself.
University of Utah researchers have examined the stresses on volunteers' hands when whacking punch bags, and say that the ability to form a fist means far more effective fighting.
"The role aggression has played in our evolution has not been adequately appreciated,” says biology professor David Carrier.
“There are people who do not like this idea, but it is clear that compared with other mammals, great apes are a relatively aggressive group, with lots of fighting and violence, and that includes us. We’re the poster children for violence.”
So Carrier and his team asked 10 male students and nonstudents – aged 22 to 50 and all with boxing or martial arts experience – to hit a punching bag as hard as they could.They tried overhead hammer fists and slaps, side punches and slaps, and forward punches and palm shoves.
To the researchers’ surprise, the peak force was the same. However, a fist delivers the same force with one-third of the surface area as the palm and fingers, and 60 percent of the surface area of the palm alone. So the peak stress delivered to the punching bag – the force per area – was 1.7 to three times greater with a fist strike than with a slap.
The team also carried out experiments to test the hypothesis that a fist provides buttressing to protect the hand during punching. They found that the buttressing from making a fist increased the stiffness of the knuckle joint fourfold, and doubled the ability of the fingers to transmit punching force.
"Because the experiments show the proportions of the human hand provide a performance advantage when striking with a fist, we suggest that the proportions of our hands resulted, in part, from selection to improve fighting performance," says Carrier.
If manual dexterity was the only driving force, humans could have evolved longer thumbs without the fingers and palms getting shorter. But, he says, "there is only one way you can have a buttressed, clenched fist: the palms and fingers got shorter at the same time the thumb got longer."
The current theory is that when our ancestors came out of the trees, selection for climbing vanished and selection for manipulation became dominant.
"An alternative possible explanation is that we stood up on two legs and evolved these hand proportions to beat each other," says Carrier.
 

Wiggs Dannyboy

Last Laugh Foundation
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Hmmm...another chicken or the egg situation. I still vote for tool making though...punching lions, tigers and snakes (oh my) doesn't work as good as spears. It definitely is another evolutionary advantage that the opposable thumb gives though.
 

Crusader Rabbit

Active member
Veteran
Hmmm...another chicken or the egg situation. I still vote for tool making though...punching lions, tigers and snakes (oh my) doesn't work as good as spears. It definitely is another evolutionary advantage that the opposable thumb gives though.


Yeah, once people learn how to make a sharp stick those fists aren't so effective.
 

Hash Zeppelin

Ski Bum Rodeo Clown
Premium user
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Yeah, once people learn how to make a sharp stick those fists aren't so effective.

[URL=http://img.tgdaily.net/sites/default/files/stock/450teaser/domestic/punchbag.jpg]View ImageA new study indicates that the real evolutionary advantage of being able to cross your thumb over your palm is that it lets you hit people hard without hurting yourself......

“There are people who do not like this idea, but it is clear that compared with other mammals, great apes are a relatively aggressive group, with lots of fighting and violence, and that includes us. We’re the poster children for violence.”

there is a huge reason they made those sharp sticks, and if those scientist had ever been in a fight in there life they would know this is wrong. Have you ever hit anyone? Your Fists are fragile flowers. If you dont do it exactly right you will break your hand and fingers. These guys are close though. we developed the thumb originally to throw things when we were still apes. then we developed the more recent opposable thumbs to create tools.

We were not the poster children of violence. There is no such thing in nature that lacks society. Violence is something destructive that happens to a person or animal in a society when there is no reason for it, which is a human creation. Humans are natural and just animals but we have created society and made most destruction of life unnecessary. Now we are the postal children of violence. We do live in extremely violent society, and there is no real reason for it to be that way other than lack of evolution. Humans brains are still 98 percent chimpanzee.
 

mrcreosote

Active member
Veteran
Or a more prosaic look at evolution could assume that monkeys throwing poo learned that poo alone could not achieve the desired decisive outcome and began the evolutionary journey to the bitchslap.

For millennia, the bitchslap was useful in establishing a hierarchical social order, but with the corresponding enlargement of the brain from proteins from the scavenging of meat, a rise in aggressive behavior for dominance and it's benefits of the juiciest monkey butts created an arms (hands) race and the 'smash yo grill' evolved to compensate.

Strangely enough, we have evolved modern technology to accomplish this task very efficiently but yet, seem to have reached a stasis in evolutionary brain chemistry for the reasons for it.

Enter the internet and the cycle is complete.

Back to poo throwing monkeys.

The End.
 

Green lung

Active member
Veteran
I'm not buying it, punches are not great weapons, and humans need training to have any effectiveness punching.
 
H

hard rain

http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/68212-human-hands-designed-to-throw-punches

Opposable thumbs: one of the features that separates us from other apes, a contributor to the tool use that's made us the dominant species on the planet. Makes you feel quite smug, right? Well, not so fast.
View ImageA new study indicates that the real evolutionary advantage of being able to cross your thumb over your palm is that it lets you hit people hard without hurting yourself.
University of Utah researchers have examined the stresses on volunteers' hands when whacking punch bags, and say that the ability to form a fist means far more effective fighting.
"The role aggression has played in our evolution has not been adequately appreciated,” says biology professor David Carrier.
“There are people who do not like this idea, but it is clear that compared with other mammals, great apes are a relatively aggressive group, with lots of fighting and violence, and that includes us. We’re the poster children for violence.”
So Carrier and his team asked 10 male students and nonstudents – aged 22 to 50 and all with boxing or martial arts experience – to hit a punching bag as hard as they could.They tried overhead hammer fists and slaps, side punches and slaps, and forward punches and palm shoves.
To the researchers’ surprise, the peak force was the same. However, a fist delivers the same force with one-third of the surface area as the palm and fingers, and 60 percent of the surface area of the palm alone. So the peak stress delivered to the punching bag – the force per area – was 1.7 to three times greater with a fist strike than with a slap.
The team also carried out experiments to test the hypothesis that a fist provides buttressing to protect the hand during punching. They found that the buttressing from making a fist increased the stiffness of the knuckle joint fourfold, and doubled the ability of the fingers to transmit punching force.
"Because the experiments show the proportions of the human hand provide a performance advantage when striking with a fist, we suggest that the proportions of our hands resulted, in part, from selection to improve fighting performance," says Carrier.
If manual dexterity was the only driving force, humans could have evolved longer thumbs without the fingers and palms getting shorter. But, he says, "there is only one way you can have a buttressed, clenched fist: the palms and fingers got shorter at the same time the thumb got longer."
The current theory is that when our ancestors came out of the trees, selection for climbing vanished and selection for manipulation became dominant.
"An alternative possible explanation is that we stood up on two legs and evolved these hand proportions to beat each other," says Carrier.
Most people who get into a fight are not fighting soft punching bags. They are usually trying to hit someone in the head, which is hard bone. Conventional punching is a quick way to break your fingers. Fight over. Much better to use palm strikes or hammer fist.
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
Veteran
Why pick people who were trained in fighting for the study? It would have been more accurate to pick a random group of people and see the results then. A collection of broken bones would have disproved the theory before these guys became a joke.
 

DarthFader1

Member
Veteran
Yeah a standard forward facing clenched fist punch is not a very effective way of punching for the average person imo. You can do alot more damage with a pimp slap backhand, or turn that backhand 45 degrees into a karate chop, then your talking
 
Top