How to start seeds in rockwool cubes?

[goingrey]

Having some issues.

Things are really slow, even after the seed has cracked. Opened some up as a couple were coming up upside down and the taproots somehow split by themselves in there. Even one that was the right way around had a split root. Something is wrong.

Do the cubes have to be submerged in water for a longer period before use? I just "watered" them. They feel moist and heavy but maybe they aren't "mush" enough? Or are they too wet? Or are you supposed let the sprouts grow a long tail in a paper towel before putting them in the cubes or something?

Also should the cubes be fertilized or not? I used quarter strength grow nutes when initially hydrating the cubes and now just water when adding more as they dry.

Warm place under a fluorescent tube. Same as I use for soil and coco seed starting. That should be ok.

 

[Creeperpark]

I think it's best to put the seed in the rookwool first and not in a paper towel at all. The transfer slows everything down and is stressful for the seed. Keep the seed wet for the first 48 hrs. in the rockwool and in the dark, then put them under the light, "sprout or not" !@ 48hrs. and just wait.

 

[goingrey]

I think it's best to put the seed in the rookwool first and not in a paper towel at all. The transfer slows everything down and is stressful for the seed. Keep the seed wet for the first 48 hrs. in the rockwool and in the dark, then put them under the light, "sprout or not" !@ 48hrs. and just wait.

I didn't keep them in the dark, maybe that is an issue? Obviously they don't need light before they're up but the lamp was on for heat. Hasn't been an issue with other media but I can see the rockwool letting in more light.

And I notice a wet towel smell on the cubes, kept them too wet for too long possibly? But I mean it's not like you can let them dry..

Really going through a learning curve with these cubes. They just behave so differently and so do the seeds in them. Funny thing is I used them ages ago when I first started and don't remember having any issues back then. But maybe I just forgot, after all I did stop using them for some reason.

 

[Creeperpark]

Using clean water makes so much difference before and after they spout too. I always use RO water for spouting seeds.

 

[G.O. Joe]

There should be no smell at all. This has to involve your nutes and could be bad. I go with 200 ppm. RW needs washing at 5.5-6 but you have to be accurate because you're going to have rooting issues at 5. Same with having it too wet or dry, it should be in between and not watered just like any other seed starting. Shake out at least half the retained water and keep under a dome or in a bag.

 

[Dime]

Keep your rockwool nice and warm,touch it to make sure it's warm because it tends to stay cold,use a heating pad if possible.I used to leave the water level half way up the cube just under the seed level till it cracked then remove the water. You can pull a bit of rockwool off to cover the hole so the light doesn't get at it but I found it made no difference in my case,the seeds cracked either way,good luck.

 

[Airloom]

I’ve never used it to sprout seeds but I did take the plunge. I used it for clones after receiving some cuttings by mail in rock wool

I topped my Rosetta Stone way too late and hated to just compost them

I now have a dozen or so nice cuts to gift others. Just about safe enough to move some stuff outdoors here on the east coast US

I also like the looks of the roots in rock wool in a crazy way lol

 

[goingrey]

Ok so I tried to open up one of the seeds to move it along and the embryo had almost disintegrated in there.

I think this is very much a case of too much water.

 

[mexweed]

when I used them I rinsed them and then soaked them in ph'd water for an hour and gently squeezed the excess moisture out, the ph has to be spot on or it fucks up the seeds bad

now I just use rapid rooters

 

[Ca++]

The idea of them being disorientated with split roots, doesn't suggest anything other than bad beans to me. I'm surprised nobody else has addressed this odd growth. I doubt there is anything you can do about it. I have never seen such a thing. The odd one not able to turn is possible. Generally you find the block was badly made, and solid where it shouldn't be. That's nothing like you describe though.


It's very difficult to follow instruction such as shake it a bit, or squeeze it a bit. Though these are the things we do. I squeeze with 4 finger, one on each side, but not enough to change the blocks shape. There is very little 'spring' in rock. Any crushing isn't a good thing.
It might be better to stack them. To proceed, wet them all, then put a single block on a draining board. On top of this, balance another. Then put a third block on top, making a tower of three. To the water within the blocks, you are trying to make a tower of water. It's not possible. The water will fall. The bottom block will be as wet as it ever was. The middle one drier, and the top block about right. It's a while since I used the itchy stuff, and seem to remember stacking a bit higher, but have a look. You can feel the weight or look at the colour as a guide. The stacking idea makes the job repeatable. With 4" blocks I did it all the time. Draining out the excess without destroying the block. With near perfect repeatability. No more skill needed than a 3yo could manage.

 

[goingrey]

The idea of them being disorientated with split roots, doesn't suggest anything other than bad beans to me. I'm surprised nobody else has addressed this odd growth. I doubt there is anything you can do about it. I have never seen such a thing. The odd one not able to turn is possible. Generally you find the block was badly made, and solid where it shouldn't be. That's nothing like you describe though.


It's very difficult to follow instruction such as shake it a bit, or squeeze it a bit. Though these are the things we do. I squeeze with 4 finger, one on each side, but not enough to change the blocks shape. There is very little 'spring' in rock. Any crushing isn't a good thing.
It might be better to stack them. To proceed, wet them all, then put a single block on a draining board. On top of this, balance another. Then put a third block on top, making a tower of three. To the water within the blocks, you are trying to make a tower of water. It's not possible. The water will fall. The bottom block will be as wet as it ever was. The middle one drier, and the top block about right. It's a while since I used the itchy stuff, and seem to remember stacking a bit higher, but have a look. You can feel the weight or look at the colour as a guide. The stacking idea makes the job repeatable. With 4" blocks I did it all the time. Draining out the excess without destroying the block. With near perfect repeatability. No more skill needed than a 3yo could manage.

Good or bad, maybe it's not that simple. These are Moroccan landrace beans, decades of natural selection for a very dry area, and I am trying to start them in very wet rockwool cubes.

Squeezing out the excess water is a very good tip, I have done that now.

 

[therevverend]

Growers tend to keep their rockwool cubes soggier then necessary. Too much water in the reservoir and a dome on top makes for very high humidity. I had a friend who had a clone rooting system that worked well for him. He didn't use the dome, dipped the cubes once a day in water, and didn't have a water reservoir. He'd mist them from a few times a day as well. It means you have to watch things closely until you get dialed in but once you do it solves the major problems of rockwool. Poor air flow and too much moisture that comes from over-reliance on domes. I like using a dome myself but I always open it up on top and will open the bottom a crack as well.

The idea of them being disorientated with split roots, doesn't suggest anything other than bad beans to me. I'm surprised nobody else has addressed this odd growth. I doubt there is anything you can do about it. I have never seen such a thing. The odd one not able to turn is possible. Generally you find the block was badly made, and solid where it shouldn't be. That's nothing like you describe though.

Bad technique or bad seeds can cause these symptoms. I've sprouted batches of fucked up seed, seeds having trouble finding which way is 'up' and the root splitting. There's always at least a few of them that are 'normal' and sprout vigorous and healthy. A few more will sprout successfully but will have distorted mutated growth. Some will have trouble breaking out of the shell. It's noticeable when you inspect the seed, the size, shape, and color isn't uniform. They might all look brown and viable but many of them will be round and won't have striping. Sometimes batches of landrace seed will look like this.

My money is on too-wet rockwool and maybe too-cool of temperatures. Even if there's a problem with the seeds it's going to be magnified if there's problems with the medium. You should at least have a few sprouting healthy.

 

[Ca++]

Trying to wrap my head around a genetic mutation, caused by procedure. pH seems the only idea worth entertaining.
I do have a specific hole outdoors, where plants regularly grow a flat stem with side-branches that leave the main stem like a side-ramp peels off the major road. No node. The reason could be methane. Perhaps this is a water treatment issue?
I have never seen such a thing, and have done a few beans. Quite a few.



While of little use right now, you could also look at expending clay pellets. While not technically ideal, the results I see in them are unquestionable.

 

[FletchF.Fletch]

When I use Rockwool to sprout, they get a 12 hour soak in water before being planted into the cubes. First you wet the cubes with a starter solution ph'ed to 5.5. I use 1/8 teaspoon dry Veg feed per gallon for the first few days then 1/4 teaspoon for the next week. You can submerge the cubes for 30 seconds or so to wet them evenly. Some people drain off a little bit by turning the cube sideways with one corner downward, or by holding the cube and flicking your wrist to shake some out. Also you can put a wet cube on top of a dry one to wick away excess moisture. With the 1.5 inch wrapped starter cubes, 30-40ml is perfect for each cube if you are watering to wet them.

Ph is the key.

 

[therevverend]

Trying to wrap my head around a genetic mutation, caused by procedure. pH seems the only idea worth entertaining.

Mutation in the colloquial sense, didn't mean genetic mutation.

pH seems the only idea worth entertaining.

PH is a possibility. More likely it's simply that the seeds and baby plants are rotting as they sprout. Happens all the time, I've seen dampening off kill more seedlings then anything else. In cool wet weather outdoors and low and high temperatures with extremely high humidity indoors.

Seedlings contain all the energy they need to survive the first 10 days. They don't need to be fed. I've sprouted lots of seeds in an inert medium. Paper towels are a common example. I've used seaweed solution, humic acid, that sort of thing, but I'm not convinced it helped. There's also the possibility of messing with the PH and introducing pathogens.

 

[Ca++]

The smell about them, means game over. I notice they are getting further waterings, which is not a good sign on the timescale of things. It's just too slow. Which makes me question the temperature. If the water is drinkable, and all the containers used are clean, then you hope to make it at least a week before anything has got in and bred enough to cause problems. Which should be time to get them to a point where they can survive it. Dirty seeds from unclean buds is nothing new though. Lots of people clean seeds before use because of this. A bit of yuck on the seed could out pace the seed getting up. The conditions we give the seed, are good for some bacteria also. Making it a race to see who grows quicker. I find if the block needs more water before the seed is out, I am probably wasting my time. Very slow seeds really want the more balanced eco system of a compost, to stop yuck growing quickly.

We had a thread recently, showing some rot related microlife can survive in a seed. Making it from one plant to another. Your seeds are unknown to us, as is the temperature.


I'm still hung up on this split tails business. It's not a failure I have ever seen. Not even in pics.

 

[goingrey]

While of little use right now, you could also look at expending clay pellets. While not technically ideal, the results I see in them are unquestionable.

I've had a few volunteers pop up from Seramis so certainly that should be a good starter medium.

I'm still hung up on this split tails business. It's not a failure I have ever seen. Not even in pics.

It's possible the tail was mushy from one part and stuck to the rockwool from another and pulling the cube apart cut the end off, maybe? Funnily enough the split tail plants are doing fine now. Edit: but no, one of them had the tail come up from the cube with the broken part still in there, that wasn't broke off by me.

Five are up, one is a goner, four are keeping me in excitement.

 

[FletchF.Fletch]

Every seed has the same design. They have an eye or navel where they were attached to their Mother plant. The root emerges from the tip of the seed that is opposite the eye/navel. So, when planting in Rockwool after soaking, you put them into the hole Root Tip side down Eye/Navel end pointing upward.

This can be tricky with the predrilled holes as they are usually wider than most seeds. Take a Chopstick or Pen Cap to move some Rockwool fibers to cover some of the hole so the seeds don't just fall in. Then put a seed over top of the hole and poke it into the cube. Sometimes I flip the starter cubes upside down and make my own smaller holes that are not as deep.

 

[goingrey]

Every seed has the same design. They have an eye or navel where they were attached to their Mother plant. The root emerges from the tip of the seed that is opposite the eye/navel. So, when planting in Rockwool after soaking, you put them into the hole Root Tip side down Eye/Navel end pointing upward.

This can be tricky with the predrilled holes as they are usually wider than most seeds. Take a Chopstick or Pen Cap to move some Rockwool fibers to cover some of the hole so the seeds don't just fall in. Then put a seed over top of the hole and poke it into the cube. Sometimes I flip the starter cubes upside down and make my own smaller holes that are not as deep.

I at least tried to put them in the right way around. Sure they can spin when going in the hole but also sometimes they just do the U.

Not like it never happens in soil or other media but quite often you don't even need to care. They find the right way by themselves not sure if based on the light or gravity or what but often they just do. Rockwool seems much more sensitive to how the seed is placed, I guess the fibers just don't allow the roots to grow as freely.

 

[FletchF.Fletch]

Wasn't trying to sound preachy, sorry. They definitely roll down in there and end up sideways and upside down. Gravity and light usually show them the way. Sometimes they get lost going in circles.