Im working with a superskunk male
-
ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
How to select a male?
- Thread starter Greenheart
- Start date
So from what I've gathered you want the male(or males) to be healthy without being too tall, smell good, flower late(not during veg!) with tight flower clusters, have hollow stems, and even trichrome production if you are lucky enough to find one with trichromes(I found a Hindu Kush one time that had resin production on the leaves and it wasn't a hermaphrodite).
In another thread I was reading about reversing males so that they produce female flowers so you can look for the best phenotype to breed with. It sounds like something that could be worth doing. I was also reading about breeding with multiple males for variation to sort through later.
In another thread I was reading about reversing males so that they produce female flowers so you can look for the best phenotype to breed with. It sounds like something that could be worth doing. I was also reading about breeding with multiple males for variation to sort through later.
This year the only male (Panama x Mextiza x Deep Chunk) I got and the one I will use to pollinate (other (1)Pan x mex/DC and (3)Mace x Peyote Purple/ Deep Chunk), convice myself when I smoke it; it's potent for being leaves, also I like it's vigour and smell. But I think the selection is from you want of the f2 (smells, structure, sativa or indica leaning,pheno, color, etc).
But for true breeding you have to see many males of some strain, select fathers and open polinization then re select and go on again...
But for true breeding you have to see many males of some strain, select fathers and open polinization then re select and go on again...
i smoke male fan leaves ( new growth off mature plants). i'm running landraces and the males do smoke real nice on some landraces. young landrace plants often don't have the potency that the same plant older (more than 8 weeks old) has. duration of high off fan leaves isn't as good as female bud but the fan leaf test is good indicator for male re potency from my experiences.
in highly recessive pheno hunts i would just go fem seeds ( turn a she into a he) and get reversed pollen off tried and true females.
hermies are not good but i will use a slightly hermie male for pollen and the seed plant females from these slightly hermie males are often totally sensi (no hermies). some landraces like zamal have almost no non-hermie males.
vigor. i don't like breeding with "gary colemans". i'm looking for "shaq's".
flowering times and fan leaf resin are indicators. smell is a good indicator. branching and leaf formation are indicators. stem color is an indicator.
for larger yielder's i look for reinforcing rings where the branch ties into the main stem and shorter internodal length. larger, stronger stems, branches are probably there for a reason. brittle stems are bad as they will have a tendency to snap under stress. this is very important outdoors where fully budded branches weighed down by rain and blown around by gale winds will cause considerable loss of yield.
many breeders keep their grail keeper/breeder males alive as clones .
freezing pollen and keeping notes is important. the pollen has only 12-18 mth. viability so test runs need to be made indoors to get better appraisal of the male by sampling his offspring before pollen is no longer viable.
^^ bolded and underlined is best test. some plants are sports; transfer their desired attributes into their progeny. some are not. speculation and indicators are not nearly as reliable as actually running the offspring to see if the male is a sport. using clones from the same female helps isolate the male's contribution to the seeds .
BEST TIP: keep fresh viable seeds of the parents. let's say you've got a keeper female f1 and want a breeder male. if you got the parents of the f1 ( p1's) you can make more f1's and manufacture more potential keeper breeder f1's; male and female.
look how may great strains are no longer easily available in seed form. in many to most cases the parents p(1)'s in this example are no longer available. if you keep the parents of the strain viable you can make more seeds to grow out for more selected breeder/keepers. this is a big deal and the downfall of many a great strain (the parents are gone).
it's a great topic, a sophisticated subject.
nice thread.
in highly recessive pheno hunts i would just go fem seeds ( turn a she into a he) and get reversed pollen off tried and true females.
hermies are not good but i will use a slightly hermie male for pollen and the seed plant females from these slightly hermie males are often totally sensi (no hermies). some landraces like zamal have almost no non-hermie males.
vigor. i don't like breeding with "gary colemans". i'm looking for "shaq's".
flowering times and fan leaf resin are indicators. smell is a good indicator. branching and leaf formation are indicators. stem color is an indicator.
for larger yielder's i look for reinforcing rings where the branch ties into the main stem and shorter internodal length. larger, stronger stems, branches are probably there for a reason. brittle stems are bad as they will have a tendency to snap under stress. this is very important outdoors where fully budded branches weighed down by rain and blown around by gale winds will cause considerable loss of yield.
many breeders keep their grail keeper/breeder males alive as clones .
freezing pollen and keeping notes is important. the pollen has only 12-18 mth. viability so test runs need to be made indoors to get better appraisal of the male by sampling his offspring before pollen is no longer viable.
^^ bolded and underlined is best test. some plants are sports; transfer their desired attributes into their progeny. some are not. speculation and indicators are not nearly as reliable as actually running the offspring to see if the male is a sport. using clones from the same female helps isolate the male's contribution to the seeds .
BEST TIP: keep fresh viable seeds of the parents. let's say you've got a keeper female f1 and want a breeder male. if you got the parents of the f1 ( p1's) you can make more f1's and manufacture more potential keeper breeder f1's; male and female.
look how may great strains are no longer easily available in seed form. in many to most cases the parents p(1)'s in this example are no longer available. if you keep the parents of the strain viable you can make more seeds to grow out for more selected breeder/keepers. this is a big deal and the downfall of many a great strain (the parents are gone).
it's a great topic, a sophisticated subject.
nice thread.
Last edited:
^Excellent post. I've kept the parents of my first cross, and
have been thankful every time I make more seeds with them.
I grow micro and have limited space, four at a time. I have learned
much of the potential of the cross thru various combos.
Never a dull moment.
have been thankful every time I make more seeds with them.
I grow micro and have limited space, four at a time. I have learned
much of the potential of the cross thru various combos.
Never a dull moment.
Sadhu Sciences
Member
Yo RealHash,
Thanks for the info and link. Great info . The males pre-flowered so early that I took them out of the stables. I am going to continue on my journey poppin beans until i find the gem. I got landraces from both North and Southern India that I will be testing in a lab here in CO. I may start a new thread with pics, until then, Peace
Thanks for the info and link. Great info . The males pre-flowered so early that I took them out of the stables. I am going to continue on my journey poppin beans until i find the gem. I got landraces from both North and Southern India that I will be testing in a lab here in CO. I may start a new thread with pics, until then, Peace
peacebrother
Member
Context ??
Hi Elmer,, "the late flowering males contain the high THC trait in larger frequencies than the earlier flowering individuals." opening post of the thread amigo as far as i know the only reference/context.. the hope is to point out that although these traits are looked at and therefore bred for exclusively on many occasion in reality,, that they still follow mendelian rules are inherited separately and are not matter of factly exclusive of each other nor are they linked in any way whatsoever aside from the breeders eye thus far,, just a friendly reminder that these traits are separate,, not linked,--the basic rules of genetics are still in effect.
G`day Tom
K clarification appreciated .
I just finished reading the tread .
A lot of anecdotes and wives tales is what I see . Not much documented data .
Very interested in the late male theory myself . I have been told that by more than one seed maker . But again they only had their personal experiences and not quantified .
I was told the stuff Nevil crossed in recent times was not the best selections as he used the earliest flowering males . Your input has opened my eyes .
Thanks for sharin
EB .
K clarification appreciated .
I just finished reading the tread .
A lot of anecdotes and wives tales is what I see . Not much documented data .
Very interested in the late male theory myself . I have been told that by more than one seed maker . But again they only had their personal experiences and not quantified .
I was told the stuff Nevil crossed in recent times was not the best selections as he used the earliest flowering males . Your input has opened my eyes .
Thanks for sharin
EB .
So you're saying that whether it's an early flowering male, or late flowering male, the only trait you are observing is early or later flowering not necessarily high thc?
Thanks Tom
That is correct sir.. And a simple example: P1 (late flowering high THC) X P2 (early flowering low THC) may give rise to intermediate offspring regarding the two traits under observation (in the F1).. However a quick look at the F2 and further recombination generations will show us early flowering high THC individuals (as well as vice versa). Therefore, these traits are surely inherited separately - there is no genetic linkage between them. -T
no joke
hey tom,
I just found this thread a few days ago, those where old ideas... training wheel advice, based on correlations between the potency and flowering time of hemp/auto flower/Indica/Sativa... as well as what I have read and heard from other breeders over time... but of course correlation doesn't equal causation.
nowadays it would seem that here is no special selection tool for males beyond making a test cross and growing out the progeny, except luck, unless maybe one has the cannabis genome mapped and has a lab to screen individuals?
Genome mapping 'old school style' would be way better for the everyday breeder
.And that's basically exactly what that thread is about, 'linked genes'.
A gene close to another will be coupled for some time (some generations), the closer to the centromere the longer it takes to bring them apart (via chromosomal crossover). That means, if one trait (given that we have only one responsible gene) is observed frequently but not necessarily always together with our wanted trait, then chances are high that it's on the same chromosome and can eventually be used as marker for the second trait (which is invisible in males). Putting all the informations on such traits together (any volunteers?) may eventually lead to a 'gene map à l'ancienne'. If breeder X now observes that in his case it doesn't work as it's supposed to be, he knows that with his plant, the two genes have been separated and he may be more successful when breed AGAINST the marker trait. If that doesn't work either, he knows that he lost the desired trait or his 'marker' isn't what it's supposed to be (misinterpreted phenotype or different genes, same pheno...).
I suppose that many of the observed 'accumulated coincidences' are variety specific (at best geographic regions or continents) and a map for each might be necessary. Because each breeder has his own strains, each one may also have his own reproducible 'maps' eventually contradicting observations from other breeders?
But this kind of gene mapping is very old school style, does best in theory, and works usually only for a few traits in simple organisms such as A. thaliana. Cannabis has twice as much chromosomes and unfortunately most wanted traits are polygenetic, depend on zygosity, or are even regulated by non-nuclear DNA or cytosolic factors.
Q
quokka
It is so funny to read Subcools zany theories in comparison to some of Tom Hills more clear and elementary statements.
Very good.
Very good.
