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How to properly mix Neem Oil pictorial

Somatek

Active member
How much potassium bicarbonate per gallon??
I use 15ml (1tbsp) per gallon or 3.75ml (3/4 tps) per liter as a general preventative. If there was a specific concern around PM more then pest, I'd use less neem and more potassium bicarbonate to make sure there was enough applied to destroy the PM hyphea as it breaks down.
 

Somatek

Active member
Neem, neem, neem... this is 2022.
Yes, exactly, this is 2022 and the false idea that neem is an issue when used with pot or that it causes CHS has been widely discredited and ignored, which is why it's important beginners understand how to use it properly after years of erroneous info creating confusing around the subject.

Any pesticide is more effective when used in rotation with others like your alcohol spray or any number of other possible ones. Thinking that makes neem obsolete is absurd and short sighted, fixated on your anecdotal experience at the expense of discounting others. It's why your opinions are as easy to dismiss as well despite the nuggets of good info in some of your posts as they're usually surrounded with as much questionable and clearly biased ideas. Anything that doesn't match your narrative, like peer reviewed papers for example discounting neem or other pesticides as the cause of CHS, is simply ignored and dismissed with the insistence that some day everyone will come around to your thinking. It's delusional and boring quite frankly.
 

Lunchmoney

Active member
It isn't a pleasant smell but at least it doesn't stick around long and an excellent/ever present reminder why it shouldn't be used in flower.

I use to use Einstein's Oil way back in the day (cold pressed with a guranteed 300ppm azadirachtin) but since I started growing again I've just bought my neem oil from wholesaler's and noticed little difference other then costing a fraction of the price. I've read that the azadirachtin content of neem trees is highly variable, so it'd make sense that they're could be differences in quality/effectiveness but practically in my anecdotal experience I haven't seen any so far.
What methods are safe to use in flower? Is there anything that can be used directly on buds?
 

Loc Dog

Hobbies include "drinkin', smokin' weed, and all k
Veteran
I am using green cleaner which is supposed to be very safe. Isopropyl and soy oil based. Venerate would be even better, but takes longer to kill them off. That is bacteria they eat and starves them.
 

Mattbho

Active member
I used to use neem but guys theres a much better prevention that won't fry your plants . Cheap . Micronized Sulphur. If pm is going to be an issue, theres nothing that comes close .mix in water shake n spray.. I used neem a few seasons . Then found Sulphur . Dont mix the two treatments neem and Sulphur frys the leaves to shit . And never spray flowers .
 

Somatek

Active member
What methods are safe to use in flower? Is there anything that can be used directly on buds?
For bugs or PM? Friends have had good luck using Dr Zymes for both PM and mites. Always look at your cultural practices/environmental conditions and how they might be affecting the pathogens you're dealing with. I generally don't have to spray in flower as using the neem/potassium bicarbonate is effective as preventing issues.
 

Somatek

Active member
I used to use neem but guys theres a much better prevention that won't fry your plants . Cheap . Micronized Sulphur. If pm is going to be an issue, theres nothing that comes close .mix in water shake n spray.. I used neem a few seasons . Then found Sulphur . Dont mix the two treatments neem and Sulphur frys the leaves to shit . And never spray flowers .
Neem is not an effective fungicide, it only has minor anti-fungal properties. Sulfur is an effective funcigide, although most people find it doesn't eliminate PM just controls it's growth. Which is why potassium bicarbonate became more popular as it not only changes the surface pH to control growth but also destoys the hyphae as it decomposes. I combine it with neem to act as a dual fungicide and pesticide for mites/thrips/etc, which like you said can't be done with sulfur as it'd be too phytotoxic and burns the plant.
 

Lunchmoney

Active member
For bugs or PM? Friends have had good luck using Dr Zymes for both PM and mites. Always look at your cultural practices/environmental conditions and how they might be affecting the pathogens you're dealing with. I generally don't have to spray in flower as using the neem/potassium bicarbonate is effective as preventing issues.
Bugs mainly. Moisture and mold are on the horizon of these girls don’t speed up. I used Neem twice a month during veg. Chitin foliar and root drench during veg also. I see minimal damage from pests but they are present every time I visit the grow (guerilla). All 5 girls are in bloom and I’m afraid to ruin the harvest with pest control. No significant damage yet but I see a lot of potential for it as I’m picking worms from the plants and swatting at leaf miners. I’ve employed every spider I find near the grow and I see a lot of predator bugs in my soil. I have plenty of companion plants for the deer and elk and Turkey to munch. The plot is next to a large stream very very humid and damp fog everyday. Moisture will be a problem soon. Thank you for suggestion and time. I will look into the doctor zymes
 

Lunchmoney

Active member
I use my Actively Aerated Compost Tea for soil and foliar. Tried and true. I make my own brew but that video link covers the gist.
Do you use a bag in your brewing processes? I seem to clog the sprayer with my foliar teas, can never quite get the sediment out of suspension. I have been using kelp and alfalfa foliars maybe they’ve helped a bit?! thank you I will check out this boogie brew!!
 
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xet

Active member
Do you use a bag in your brewing processes? I seem to clog the sprayer with my foliar teas, can never quite get the sediment out of suspension. I have been using kelp and alfalfa foliars maybe they’ve helped a bit?! thank you I will check out this boogie brew!!
I don't use a bag. I use a big bucket like a loose leaf tea with a few airstones and pull my brew for use by dunking a smaller bucket before finally dumping the sediment as a final top-dressing around the base of the plant.

When out in the field brew in a 5 gallon water jug, pull the stone when ready, dump it all out in soil and on foliar, and repeat the process a later time.

The pests and mycelium will keep busy on the rotten fruit peels and such.

Boogie Brew is the real deal; they also tell you their entire recipe which helps one build an understanding of what is happening and to potentially use locally sourced ingredients in the same spirit of boogie brew.
 

Loc Dog

Hobbies include "drinkin', smokin' weed, and all k
Veteran
Bugs mainly. Moisture and mold are on the horizon of these girls don’t speed up. I used Neem twice a month during veg. Chitin foliar and root drench during veg also. I see minimal damage from pests but they are present every time I visit the grow (guerilla). All 5 girls are in bloom and I’m afraid to ruin the harvest with pest control. No significant damage yet but I see a lot of potential for it as I’m picking worms from the plants and swatting at leaf miners. I’ve employed every spider I find near the grow and I see a lot of predator bugs in my soil. I have plenty of companion plants for the deer and elk and Turkey to munch. The plot is next to a large stream very very humid and damp fog everyday. Moisture will be a problem soon. Thank you for suggestion and time. I will look into the doctor zymes
I bought a fogger on ebay. Mites are on underside of leaves. Hard to kill eggs of spider mite and harder for broad mites. Have to spray every 3 to 5 days, due to hatching of eggs. To avoid neem smell could use azamax same as neem. I have just drenched for 3rd time for spider mites with green cleaner. Will check leaves in a few days. Early on I would use this, also recommend his cloning method. He goes overboard, but gets results - https://www.icmag.com/threads/snype...r-mites-broad-mites-with-100-neem-oil.268114/
 

Somatek

Active member
Bugs mainly. Moisture and mold are on the horizon of these girls don’t speed up. I used Neem twice a month during veg. Chitin foliar and root drench during veg also. I see minimal damage from pests but they are present every time I visit the grow (guerilla). All 5 girls are in bloom and I’m afraid to ruin the harvest with pest control. No significant damage yet but I see a lot of potential for it as I’m picking worms from the plants and swatting at leaf miners. I’ve employed every spider I find near the grow and I see a lot of predator bugs in my soil. I have plenty of companion plants for the deer and elk and Turkey to munch. The plot is next to a large stream very very humid and damp fog everyday. Moisture will be a problem soon. Thank you for suggestion and time. I will look into the doctor zymes
Guerrilla growing definitely changes the advice, thanks for mentioning that. Any kind of contact spray is going to be of limited use for bugs unless you're also spraying around your plants as well, I'd look at buying some predators to release in the area targeted at the pests you're dealing with. Have you done any companion planted to help with the pests, like marigolds to deter them or using trap crops around your crop? Look at other physical controls like using tanglefoot to limiit mite movement between plants. If you can get the brix high enough then bugs won't be able to digest the sugars and will move on but you need to be measuring the lower parts where the brix will be lower then the top of the plant usually. You really need to talk a holistic approach looking at all the factors increasing the pathogen pressure and figure out how to mitigate them. We use to also often grow in swampy area's with high humidity, so finding quick flowering varieties that'd finish before the cool/moist fall weather came along was important as well as training them to be more open so there'd be lots of air flow and pruning lower branches that'd be too close to the ground. Good luck
 

Somatek

Active member
I bought a fogger on ebay. Mites are on underside of leaves. Hard to kill eggs of spider mite and harder for broad mites. Have to spray every 3 to 5 days, due to hatching of eggs. To avoid neem smell could use azamax same as neem. I have just drenched for 3rd time for spider mites with green cleaner. Will check leaves in a few days. Early on I would use this, also recommend his cloning method. He goes overboard, but gets results - https://www.icmag.com/threads/snype...r-mites-broad-mites-with-100-neem-oil.268114/
Wonderful point as properly spraying plants is just as important as properly mixing your pesticides/foliar sprays. The advantage of using an oil over an azadirachtin extract/concentrate like azamax is oils are very effective at killing eggs when mixed properly so it evenly coats the leaves. As long as you're spraying under the leaves and fully covering the plant I haven't had a problem getting rid of mites (2 spotted spider mites are the common one around here). Combined with increasing the effectiveness of the potassium bicarbonate and being cheaper the azamax I'd personally rather deal with a slightly rotten peanut smell for the small amount of time I'm spraying it as it's not like it makes your room smell like that. There's no right or wrong way to grow, just what works for you and if the smell of neem is a problem azamax in rotation with a horticultural oil would have the same effect.
 

hambre

Active member
Hi, you can save all your efforts just mixing simple vegetal oil with an emulsifier. Cheapest PM control and prevention tool on the world.
 

Somatek

Active member
Hi, you can save all your efforts just mixing simple vegetal oil with an emulsifier. Cheapest PM control and prevention tool on the world.
That's very true for just PM or killing eggs but with less effectiveness vs adults. The point of using neem is to make it a more effective pesticide that'll cover adults with the azadirachtin, kills eggs as well as increase the effectiveness of potassium bicarbonate as a fungicide.
 

hambre

Active member
That's very true for just PM or killing eggs but with less effectiveness vs adults. The point of using neem is to make it a more effective pesticide that'll cover adults with the azadirachtin, kills eggs as well as increase the effectiveness of potassium bicarbonate as a fungicide.
It depends which "adults". I was pretty clear, just said, and I quote myself: "Cheapest PM control and prevention tool on the world". And neem isn`t proven to work against the typical "adults", the dose you need to kill spider mites, trips or others isn`t enough. What kills them is suffocation, same as simple and cheap vegetable oils. Salute.
 

Somatek

Active member
And neem isn`t proven to work against the typical "adults", the dose you need to kill spider mites, trips or others isn`t enough. What kills them is suffocation, same as simple and cheap vegetable oils. Salute.
What reference do you have to back that up as I've always found neem oil more effective for controlling mites compared to vegetable oil with fewer applications needed.

I realized you were talking specifically about PM and I was gently pointed out that it's off topic to this thread which isn't talking about PM control but simply a general spray that's effective against both bugs and PM. More specifically it was pointing out the need to emulsify oils before mixing with water to get an even application as simply dumping them into a sprayer and shaking is a common mistake that reduces their effectiveness.
 

hambre

Active member
What reference do you have to back that up as I've always found neem oil more effective for controlling mites compared to vegetable oil with fewer applications needed.

I realized you were talking specifically about PM and I was gently pointed out that it's off topic to this thread which isn't talking about PM control but simply a general spray that's effective against both bugs and PM. More specifically it was pointing out the need to emulsify oils before mixing with water to get an even application as simply dumping them into a sprayer and shaking is a common mistake that reduces their effectiveness.
Yes, and I gently pointed that simple and cheap vegetable oil with emulsifier is great treating PM. In the beggining of the thread doesn`t say it is for adult bugs neither. So...?

Well, you can go to researchgate.net and check spider mites researches with a lot of oils, and PM too if you like, the reason of death is suffocation. I wonder how you always found neem more effective for controlling mites than vegetable oil, how do you back that up?

I don`t feel I was off-topic since the guy is showing a method to mix neem with water, and you can find very cheap emulsifiers and very cheap oil for the same results, and he wrote about potassium bicarbonate being anti-fungal, so if I present a simpler and cheaper anti-fungal solution, what could the problem be? How is that off-topic? I am not criticizing, I am adding something, presenting an option as simple, cheap and available vegetable oils are GREAT and proven to prevent and control fungae...
 
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