HOW MANY CHILDREN NEED TO DIE BEFORE GUN LAWS CHANGE IN THE USA

[Dime]

Needing clean water and air is not a belief system. It's unfortunate you let this divide you speak of cloud your judgement..

Cruise ships burn about 3000 gph diesel at cruising speed, this works out to roughly 110 gallons per mile and 51 feet per gallon. At 80% load they burn roughly 250 metric tonnes of diesel per day plus any leaks go right in the water. I bet a lot of virtue signalers will be comforted driving their EV's and pointing their fingers at pickup drivers towing their boats after taking that yearly cruise through the Caribbean for a holiday. Will everyone stop taking planes and ships or is it all just hypocrisy and vote security? Just like pollution, the consumer is targeted then groomed to take the blame instead of the source and nothing changes but the profits go up.

 

[moose eater]

I'd say the average person would take pills not blow their own heads off,they are easier to get than a gun as well. Got a stat on pills vs gun suicide?

People use different methods to off themselves, not only based on availablility of means, but to send a specific message sometimes. Folks who use a firearm are often (not always, but often) seeking to send a message of anger and hurt that makes the ones they feel hurt by vulnerable to the graphic mess that remains when they're dead and gone. Brains on the wall are sometimes/often a final "FUCK YOU!" for many/some persons feeling betrayed or hurt in ways they don't think they can recover from.

Similarly to hanging. A message is often intended, though not always.

And yes, there are stats available re. methods, effectiveness, amount of suffering by the deceased, intended or implied message and reasons for specific choice of method, and more.

 

[Dime]

People use different methods to off themselves, not only based on availablility of means, but to send a specific message sometimes. Folks who use a firearm are often (not always, but often) seeking to send a message of anger and hurt that makes the ones they feel hurt by vulnerable to the graphic mess that remains when they're dead and gone. Brains on the wall are sometimes/often a final "FUCK YOU!" for many/some persons feeling betrayed or hurt in ways they don't think they can recover from.

Similarly to hanging. A message is often intended, though not always.

And yes, there are stats avaiable re. methods, effectiveness, amount of suffering by the deceased, intended or implied message and reasons for specific choice of method, and more.

Obviously suicide comes from depression due to environment factors,I don't own a gun but if I was gonna off myself that wouldn't enter the equation so I don't think the convenience of having the gun increases the suicide rate but I could be wrong.

 

[moose eater]

Obviously suicide comes from depression due to environment factors,I don't own a gun but if I was gonna off myself that wouldn't enter the equation.

There was a case up here in the Brooks Range, about 40 year ago, and an assignment in Abnormal Psych class was to determine if the person who shot themsevles, literally with their last bullet, (Carl/Karl), did so due to mental illness or distress, or was it a matter of accepting reality, and deciding/choosing between a slow painful death of frostbite and malnutrition, or something kinder & quicker.

I had an advantage in that discussion, as I knew folks around him fairly well. It wasn't mental illness per se'.

Without going into graphic detail, he'd ended up in an untenable situation that offered little hope, some of it his own doing, but there were many indicators in his life leading up to that moment that painted the picture of a young man with plans for the future.

Not all self-inflicted deaths are indicative of mental illness or depression, though many or most likely are.

We have physician assisted suicide in may places for that very reason.

Sometimes it's a matter of acute assessment of the reality of a given predicament, and acceptance of the best way out.

But in discussion of mental illness (often in a very judgemental tone), and not specifically in re. to your comment, Dime, I like to remind folks, especally here at a pot site, that the categories of cannabis abuse disorders and dependence disorders, along with other sometimes-allegedly-related or seemingly related disorders is/are still a current thing. And over the years, there have been many people who thought ALL drug users, including pot smokers, were absent morals, and/or mentally ill. Some of those persons still exist and think that way, too. And some are in MH and substance abuse treatment fields/positions.

Thankfully, times have been changing for a while now.

 

[MrGs]

nope. bye...

That's what I thought , after reading some of your post and the responses I've come to the conclusion your just the rambling insane member on this forum nobody pays any attention to .. bye weirdo

 

[RobFromTX]

There was a case up here in the Brooks Range, about 40 year ago, and an assignment in Abnormal Psych class was to determine if the person who shot themsevles, literaly with their last bullet, (Carl/Karl), did so due to mental illness or distress, or was it a matter of accepting reality, and deciding/choosing between a slow painful death of frostbite and malnutrition, or something kinder & quicker.

I had an advantage in that discussion, as I knew folks around him fairly well. It wasn't mental illness per se'.

Without going into graphic detail, he'd ended up in an untenable situation that offered little hope, some of it his own doing, but there were many indicators in his lief leading up to that moment that painted the picture of a young man with plans for the future.

Not all self-inflicted deaths are indicative of mental illness or depression, though many or most likely are.

We have physician assisted suicide in may places for that very reason.

Sometimes it's a matter of acute assessment of the reality of a given predicament, and acceptance of the best way out.

But in discussion of mental illness (ofen in a very judgemental tone), and not specifically in re. to your comment, Dime, I like to remind folks, especally here at a pot site, that the categories of cannabis abuse disorders and dependence disorders, along with other sometimes-allegedly-related or seemingly related disorders is/are still a current thing. And over the years, there have been many people who thought ALL drug users, including pot smokers, were absent morals, and/or mentally ill. Some of those persons still exist and think that way, too. And some are in MH and substance abuse treatment fields/positions.

Thankfully, times have been changing for a while now.

Did they just get stranded in the brooks range in the middle of winter or what was the story there? I imagine you don't have to try hard at all to run into trouble in that neck of the woods

 

[Dime]

There was a case up here in the Brooks Range, about 40 year ago, and an assignment in Abnormal Psych class was to determine if the person who shot themsevles, literaly with their last bullet, (Carl/Karl), did so due to mental illness or distress, or was it a matter of accepting reality, and deciding/choosing between a slow painful death of frostbite and malnutrition, or something kinder & quicker.

I had an advantage in that discussion, as I knew folks around him fairly well. It wasn't mental illness per se'.

Without going into graphic detail, he'd ended up in an untenable situation that offered little hope, some of it his own doing, but there were many indicators in his life leading up to that moment that painted the picture of a young man with plans for the future.

Not all self-inflicted deaths are indicative of mental illness or depression, though many or most likely are.

We have physician assisted suicide in may places for that very reason.

Sometimes it's a matter of acute assessment of the reality of a given predicament, and acceptance of the best way out.

But in discussion of mental illness (ofen in a very judgemental tone), and not specifically in re. to your comment, Dime, I like to remind folks, especally here at a pot site, that the categories of cannabis abuse disorders and dependence disorders, along with other sometimes-allegedly-related or seemingly related disorders is/are still a current thing. And over the years, there have been many people who thought ALL drug users, including pot smokers, were absent morals, and/or mentally ill. Some of those persons still exist and think that way, too. And some are in MH and substance abuse treatment fields/positions.

Thankfully, times have been changing for a while now.

Well said,thank you. In the end though it is still depression/giving up hope regardless s the cause. Maybe all drug users including pot users are mentally ill or depressed,maybe people who drink alcohol are as well, maybe everyone is?

 

[D. B. Doober]

I'm sure there have been instances of shooting oneself is better than being killed another way...grizzly or other animal attack leaves you half dead and unable to hike out, or you see @armedoldhippy 's kruzty tighty whities. Nah just kidding, I don't see where killing yourself isn't giving up or mental illness. Cancer? AIDS? They say every day is a miracle.

 

[moose eater]

Well said,thank you. In the end though it is still depression/giving up hope regardless s the cause. Maybe all drug users including pot users are mentally ill or depressed,maybe people who drink alcohol are as well, maybe everyone is?

From a lot of personal experience, there's little to be done but to forgive any of it.

Karl left a journal, which, as his hands froze, became less legible,. Sometimes folks experiencing a psychotic episiode will have their hand-writing change, too. But frostbite of the hands/fingers certainly affects the way in which a person writes.

Karl had a 1,000,000 point cribbage game going with a Dead Head I knew; a neighbor of his.
.
Upon arriving in the Brooks Range to spend most of the Summer there, remote, solo, dropped off by charter aircraft, lots of gear and ammo, food, etc., he looked at his ammunition and thought it was indicative of a war-monger, tossing most of it into a small muskeg pond. He was only going to be there for 'x' amount of time, right?

There was little to no firewood near his tent. Arctic setting with scrub brush, caribou, standard scavengers like coyote and fox, ermine, voles, etc.

Plane came to circle to see if he was OK, I believe as a result of the pilot's conscience/obligation and friends inquiring, and he got excited, unintentionally waving in a manner that led the pilot to believe he was signaling that everything was OK, and not to land or pick him up. No radio phone or radio in general.

As he decompensated physically, and ran low on food, he found a dead caribou floating in a pond (I believe the same pond he'd tossed his ammunition into), and consumed part of it in desperation, getting pretty ill.

Winter had begun to set in and he was low on food, wood and ammunition.

As his hands began to lose function and his ammunition was dwindling to the last round, starving, no ability to radio for help, he wrote a final scrawled message and shot himself.

Dying cold and alone without hope is about the worst way I can think of. But in his case it was probably pragmatism. Reality bites sometimes, but it's still reality.

 

[moose eater]

I'm sure there have been instances of shooting oneself is better than being killed another way...grizzly or other animal attack leaves you half dead and unable to hike out, or you see @armedoldhippy 's kruzty tighty whities. Nah just kidding, I don't see where killing yourself isn't giving up or mental illness. Cancer? AIDS? They say every day is a miracle.

There's some forms of suffering, whether psychological, physical, environmental, or what ever, where another day doesn't feel like a gift or a miracle. It's another day in a sentence of suffering.

My mother used to say, "There but by the grace of God go I."

 

[armedoldhippy]

kruzty tighty whities.

something only alien time travelers could see. no underwear for this old boy, lol. not since 1977...

 

[RobFromTX]

something only alien time travelers could see. no underwear for this old boy, lol. not since 1977...

Agreed. nothing like an unfurnished basement for pure comfort

 

[VerdantGreen]

I'd say the average person would take pills not blow their own heads off,they are easier to get than a gun as well. Got a stat on pills vs gun suicide?

"Firearms are the most common means of suicide in the United States, followed by suffocation and poisoning."
Firearms 53%, suffocation 27%, drug poisoning 9%

Means of Suicide | Suicide Prevention Resource Center

sprc.org

 

[armedoldhippy]

Well said,thank you. In the end though it is still depression/giving up hope regardless s the cause. Maybe all drug users including pot users are mentally ill or depressed,maybe people who drink alcohol are as well, maybe everyone is?

i've seen it written that "ALL cannabis use is medicinal, it depends on what is wrong with YOU..." it's not a cure, simply a treatment for the human condition.

 

[armedoldhippy]

"Firearms are the most common means of suicide in the United States, followed by suffocation and poisoning."
Firearms 53%, suffocation 27%, drug poisoning 9%

Means of Suicide | Suicide Prevention Resource Center

sprc.org

car "wrecks" are greatly under-reported as a method of suicide. my father was a long-haul truck driver, and said that several co-workers had people swerve at the last minute & hit them head on in a tragic "accident". insurance does not pay out in a suicide.

 

[VerdantGreen]

Yes i can imagine... again it is 'instant' like guns if you do it right..

 

[armedoldhippy]

Yes i can imagine... again it is 'instant' like guns if you do it right..

sometimes folks try a gun, and fail. i knew a fellow that got depressed because his girlfriend broke up with him. stuck a shotgun barrel in his mouth & pulled the trigger with a toe. chickened out as the gun went off & blew the side of his face off. now, he has a reason to be depressed...you turn into the front grill of a semi doing 70 the other way & you will be "successful"...

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I wasn't depressed until I read the thread...

Ok I was but now it's worse.

 

[Three Berries]

"Firearms are the most common means of suicide in the United States, followed by suffocation and poisoning."
Firearms 53%, suffocation 27%, drug poisoning 9%

Means of Suicide | Suicide Prevention Resource Center

sprc.org

So? You think if they take away firearms then you are stopping suicide?

 

[VerdantGreen]

So? You think if they take away firearms then you are stopping suicide?

no, i am not saying that at all... that would be ridiculous.
Someone asked for some info so i posted it.
There is a big difference between facts and opinions - and it would be useful if more people knew the difference.