How long does it take for a dry amendment top dressing into soil to ACTUALLY start working?

[Hiddenjems]

It's a little hard for me to give an exact answer in terms of my cost in the same way you have, because its harder to track with precision over the course of multiple cycles, and many inputs etc. I'll do my best.
Also, here's an article from KIS Organics on exactly this matter which you'll probably find quite insightful. https://www.kisorganics.com/blogs/news/a-cost-analysis-of-kis-organics-soil-over-a-3-year-period

A lot can change cost wise depending on location and local availability. When you start shipping heavy organic inputs across the world, the price skyrockets compared to organic inputs that can be sourced locally. They tend to be a lot larger and heavier than an equivalent amount of liquid based nutrients, so shipping costs can be exaggerated.
Not everyone is using the same soil either, or the same amendments, or making it themselves and adapting the recipe to local availability, and so these differences can account for a lot of discrepancies that aren't covered when people just say 'organic'. You also pay for convenience as with every other industry.
Some people haven't really figured out the reamending/recycling part of organic soil growing either, so if you're buying fresh bags of premade soil every single grow like some people, its gonna be expensive.

A lot of people get hooked into the marketing and buy all the extras products. Now some of these products are really good, but generally speaking, you can get top notch results with just good soil, tap water, and a healthy dash of love. Getting the soil, watering, environment, and lighting right is of 95% plus of the battle.
In my opinion, using one or two of the best extras sparingly, like a quality microbe complex can be worthwhile, but a lot of people get caught up in ALL the extras and fancy new brands/labels/products, instead of focusing on improving their grow skills which would raise the ceiling on their grows (metaphorically speaking) much more than any product could. Its just general consumerism bleeding into the grow world. New iPhone every year type shit. That sort of stuff really pushes up the overall costs.

Before I moved to the water only organic soil, I mostly grew with the Canna Terra liquid nutrient line. I know Canna is not the cheapest brand, but compared to my relatively low cost approach to organic water only soil growing, I'm pretty sure I was spending more with the liquid nutes. This is looking at things over the course of a few cycles recycling soil, and I've gone to quite an effort to reduce costs by DIYing soil, adapting to local availability, selecting cheaper amendments/sources without sacrificing quality, recycling soil etc.

I know it gets cheaper because of reusability, but how much work goes into that? Do you have to get all the old roots out? Any issues with pests or rot in reused soil?

I reuse 50% of my Hydroton because the labor it takes to clean the other half isn’t worth it.


I’ve been a hydro grower for a long time. Always curious about natural organic growing for my mother plants and breeding though.

 

[PadawanWarrior]

I know it gets cheaper because of reusability, but how much work goes into that? Do you have to get all the old roots out? Any issues with pests or rot in reused soil?

I reuse 50% of my Hydroton because the labor it takes to clean the other half isn’t worth it.


I’ve been a hydro grower for a long time. Always curious about natural organic growing for my mother plants and breeding though.

I'm sure it can be cheaper but not for me. I've bought so much stuff it's ridiculous. But this is fun for me so I don't mind spending money on different stuff to try.

There's different kinds of reused soil. ROLS (Recycled Organic Living Soil) which usually gets mixed after each round or two and no-till which is exactly what it sounds like. Just left in the pot and amended. I kind of do both. I have some 15 gal that haven't been tilled in years and that's probably my healthiest soil. Mulch helps a lot with either.

No need to mess with roots. They break down and turn back into food for the plants. Most of us don't worry about root rot either. The good bacteria should overwhelm the bad. As for pests I think the more active the more it can naturally deter or overcome pests. Using stuff like neem meal and chitin helps. Not to mention the predators that can make good soil home.

I'm not really a hydro grower but have you thought about using that 34% H2O2 to clean the Hydroton? I've never used it but it might work. I just bought a bottle last time I went by a hydro shop so I can check it out.

 

[Hiddenjems]

I'm sure it can be cheaper but not for me. I've bought so much stuff it's ridiculous. But this is fun for me so I don't mind spending money on different stuff to try.

There's different kinds of reused soil. ROLS (Recycled Organic Living Soil) which usually gets mixed after each round or two and no-till which is exactly what it sounds like. Just left in the pot and amended. I kind of do both. I have some 15 gal that haven't been tilled in years and that's probably my healthiest soil. Mulch helps a lot with either.

No need to mess with roots. They break down and turn back into food for the plants. Most of us don't worry about root rot either. The good bacteria should overwhelm the bad. As for pests I think the more active the more it can naturally deter or overcome pests. Using stuff like neem meal and chitin helps. Not to mention the predators that can make good soil home.

I'm not really a hydro grower but have you thought about using that 34% H2O2 to clean the Hydroton? I've never used it but it might work. I just bought a bottle last time I went by a hydro shop so I can check it out.

Using any type of product beyond bleach costs more than new Hydroton.

I’ve minimized my costs. For an average month my highest cost by far is electric. My bill averages $1000-$1200 a month. That’s for 11 lights and ac.


I’ve said it before, I wish I could find cheap powdered electric like the nutes I use lol.

 

[Hiddenjems]

I'm sure it can be cheaper but not for me. I've bought so much stuff it's ridiculous. But this is fun for me so I don't mind spending money on different stuff to try.

There's different kinds of reused soil. ROLS (Recycled Organic Living Soil) which usually gets mixed after each round or two and no-till which is exactly what it sounds like. Just left in the pot and amended. I kind of do both. I have some 15 gal that haven't been tilled in years and that's probably my healthiest soil. Mulch helps a lot with either.

No need to mess with roots. They break down and turn back into food for the plants. Most of us don't worry about root rot either. The good bacteria should overwhelm the bad. As for pests I think the more active the more it can naturally deter or overcome pests. Using stuff like neem meal and chitin helps. Not to mention the predators that can make good soil home.

I'm not really a hydro grower but have you thought about using that 34% H2O2 to clean the Hydroton? I've never used it but it might work. I just bought a bottle last time I went by a hydro shop so I can check it out.

Using any type of product beyond bleach costs more than new Hydroton.

I’ve minimized my costs. For an average month my highest cost by far is electric. My bill averages $1000-$1200 a month. That’s for 11 lights and ac.


I’ve said it before, I wish I could find cheap powdered electric like the nutes I use lol.

 

[Creeperpark]

Different strokes dude

One could also ask if you’re monitoring ph/ec why not just ditch soil altogether and grow bigger plants with coco

Quitters never learn anything friend.

 

[I Care]

Hi all, just a fundamental, basic grow question because I honestly have applied things a bunch of times now and have no idea if / when they will start working, or IF they even start working

edit - it's 3 questions sorry

For example, if I start seeing pale-ing of any leaves in veg, or god forbid as keeps happening in flower, I race over to my Gaia Green All Purpose 4-4-4 or Power Bloom 2-8-4 and apply a generous amount - maybe even more generous than it calls for, and frantically water it in. As the following days go by the plant just seems to get worse and worse, which I am guessing, is because "by the time you see the problem, it's too late".. and furthermore, or more importantly, because the dry amendments take time to be usable?

1. But if it's too late, what is the plan of attack at this too-late stage?

2. How long even in a worst case scenario when the plant is unhappy going to take to start actually showing effect from something like the 4-4-4 top dressing?

3. In these nightmare scenarios (like in flower) when the leaves are paling way too soon, like a month in, should I not only top-dress the dry amendment but also hit it with liquid nutes for the first X amount of days until transferring back to plain water and hoping the dry amendments take over?

Hopefully these all make sense, I feel like they're important valid questions and I'd just like to hear from people who actually know

I think it's especially important because I keep being tempted to "add more, add more, add more" when nothing is improving after application and I'm sure this is an extremely common pitfall many of us noobs encounter

THANKS ICMAG!

Just answer to question number one, because this is what I’ve understood since my first plants. I tried the same thing in the past with transplanting into 20L\5gal pots with ocean forrest, coco peat brick, peat moss and perlite. When I showed my mentor my plants he told me to go to the hydro store and buy BioFlores.

If you can buy BioCanna or similarly available organic cannabis flower nutrient and use as directed, side watered to good run off 1/4-1/3 volume as needed. Add molasses to feed microbes. It’s that or or switch to hydro fert and flood with high EC hydro water every day or two.


Or just let it be and you might even get better buds, not as much weight as if you feed them. long as your not root bound or dry I bet the plant could push itself pretty far through so long as you let the plant sacrifice the leaves on its own. I think you could basically put a plant into flower and never water or feed it and you’ll get some flower.

 

[iStruggle]

Im not sure what you guys are using but when i buy dry amendments i pay close attention to solubility. I amend with nutrients i want to use this grow. Sorry for any confusion, i made my comments without taking into consideration what everyone else is using. My bad. Good day gentlemen

 

[HomelyFans]

Something like Gypsum would take 5-6 weeks. Most salts take a month to release. The microbes need nitrogen and carbon to decompose into organic acid chelated nutes.

Im not sure what you guys are using but when i buy dry amendments i pay close attention to solubility. I amend with nutrients i want to use this grow. Sorry for any confusion, i made my comments without taking into consideration what everyone else is using. My bad. Good day gentlemen

Doesn't stop people from calling it soluble as it sinks like concrete in every liquid you could possibly mix it in. Someone show me the numeric difference between the 8 dollar granular Gypsum end the 11 dollar Gypsum flower. Yeah these discussions are never fruitful like that.

 

[iStruggle]

Something like Gypsum would take 5-6 weeks. Most salts take a month to release. The microbes need nitrogen and carbon to decompose into organic acid chelated nutes.




Doesn't stop people from calling it soluble as it sinks like concrete in every liquid you could possibly mix it in. Someone show me the numeric difference between the 8 dollar granular Gypsum end the 11 dollar Gypsum flower. Yeah these discussions are never fruitful like that.

You dont have to mix it in water…
Not looking for the solubility of gypsum either.

If most salts took a month to release my plants would die. Simple as that. I cook my main mix for 3 weeks. Tops. Everything is available. Are you talking until theyre depleted or available for the plant? The whole timed release aspect is one if the major benefits of organic growing. Im not sure what youre arguing.

I have a base mix that i cook, anything after that to help along or for flower is what im referring to

 

[Ca++]

A saw something specifically on nitrogen, of the kind animals produce. After watering in, there was some available in a day or two. Just a small amount, that increased each day, until peak supply occurred 10-14 days later. After this, it decreased at a similar rate, before it was pretty much done at 3 weeks.

Temperature and bio-activity are important. This was in pots. I think greenhouse.



Outdoor plots are best prepped months before use, but N is often added just before planting. Even with good cec, N is often added again during the season, as it just doesn't hang about.

 

[iStruggle]

A saw something specifically on nitrogen, of the kind animals produce. After watering in, there was some available in a day or two. Just a small amount, that increased each day, until peak supply occurred 10-14 days later. After this, it decreased at a similar rate, before it was pretty much done at 3 weeks.

Temperature and bio-activity are important. This was in pots. I think greenhouse.

Thats inline with everything ive ever read or listened to, observed in my tent as well.

 

[Creeperpark]

Just answer to question number one, because this is what I’ve understood since my first plants. I tried the same thing in the past with transplanting into 20L\5gal pots with ocean forrest, coco peat brick, peat moss and perlite. When I showed my mentor my plants he told me to go to the hydro store and buy BioFlores.

If you can buy BioCanna or similarly available organic cannabis flower nutrient and use as directed, side watered to good run off 1/4-1/3 volume as needed. Add molasses to feed microbes. It’s that or or switch to hydro fert and flood with high EC hydro water every day or two.


Or just let it be and you might even get better buds, not as much weight as if you feed them. long as your not root bound or dry I bet the plant could push itself pretty far through so long as you let the plant sacrifice the leaves on its own. I think you could basically put a plant into flower and never water or feed it and you’ll get some flower.

Are you testing the runoff?

 

[Ca++]

Are you testing the runoff?

What sort of EC would you want in organic?
If this were hydro, 2 - 2.5 has been aired by a university looking at green. Though that is runoff displaced by RO, maybe half hour after feeding. Which gives time for the feeding to of dissolved any solids from the past. However, if we are looking at runoff from a feed, the numbers will be a bit different. In organic, the feed may even register low to our meters. Giving everyone a spread of results, from different soils and feeds in use.

I'm in soil, but using chems at 2, and seeing 4 come out. I'm not saying that's right though, as I'm not a soil guy. I'm just filling some pots between hydro crops. Really quite clueless I am.

 

[mudballs]

Soil you care about pore water EC (pwEC) to let mineralization occur.

 

[jokerman]

You guys are funny.


Guanos are fast acting but not immediately available. I love them for that reason exactly.


Flushing huh. And who's laughing now, lol. Here's some unflushed buds for ya.

View attachment 19020449

pretty as a prom date ffs!

 

[I Care]

Are you testing the runoff?

Yes, I tested over 1700ppm and low pH coming from 40L/10gal containers. In the end I chose hydro and use my large coco, peat moss and perlite containers as a reservoir. I was not confident relying on the amended bag soil.

I made a thread for adjusting the water value of the solution on the roots.

How I Have Been Buffering Root Zone Nutrient Content with Water

I’ve been meaning to take the time to do this and this last one was a back breaker I almost left it alone in the middle of it. One should check pH through this process. Im leaving out what nutrients I use. I started with a blend of fertilized peat and coco soils with added peat and perlite...

www.icmag.com