How does the community feel about people reproducing seeds?

[MedGrowerTom]

If you're going to do this, I would let all of the seeds grow out and cross pollinate everything to try and capture all of the available expressions of the plant in seed form.

What you might determine to be the "best plants" might not meet the criteria of myself, for instance.

I plan on doing this with an old pack AK47 I have when I have the space. Growing all 11 seeds out and letting them cross pollinate. Then start sifting through the seeds looking for the Cherry AK pheno.

I don't plan on selling any of these seeds though. Once I find what I'm looking for I will probably gift the rest.

thank you, thank you, thank you. Let it all breed with it all. Trying to save something like that, you need to breed every seed you got in hopes to create something close Even if you don't like how one of the beans grew, its makeup is still there and could be needed, think about how land races are, its all hits it all. When backyard breeders pick what they think is the best, does not mean it is the best to others, let alone for breeding. (not against people breeding, not trying start a war lol) But as an example, there are some strains I want, and I know some ppl that have them, but they are from seed. I only will take clones from people, if its a clone only, if its a seed based plant, I rather order the seeds myself and pick what "I" feel is the best. However, if I wanted to then make seeds to keep that type of plant around, I would want to grow out many, and keep each mom and dad alive, back cross when time is right, least try to do it right. The more beans you have, the better chances of making it happen. That being said, I wish you the best of luck, just remember( as you may already know) it is more then just breeding 2 plants and calling it a day, but I'm sure you know all this.

Just wanted to agree with got_bud on using all the avail seeds you have for this project.

And now to answer your question, you have seeds. Is is up to you what you do with them, I think I would be nice to let the original breeder know, and when/if you sell them, please make it well known that its a recreation from original seeds.

Make a grow log for it, I'm sure there are some breeders on here that would be happy to offer some help. Also to Got_Bud, gluck on the cherry hunt, something I would like to add to my stables...

 

[Mohadib]

I meant exactly that i, but i ask for evidence. I meant manmade open pollination. Has someone seen this happening, that only early males loves them all, and do have late males still a secound chance later on?. Probably it sounded like i cant believe that, but i didnt meant it that way. Internet is strange cause one cant hear the tone of speach.. So, do you know this, or do you think it is? Seen it yourselve

In fact I have seen it myself – at least to a certain extend.

When I pop seeds, I transfer any promising looking males to another room where they can flower and where I can collect their pollen. I also transfer any left-over clones that I don’t give away to the same room; they are then used for seed production by open pollination.
As of yet, there has always been one male dropping it’s pollen prior to the other males, either because it was in fact faster flowering or because it was planted earlier.
Depending on the temporal difference between the males flowering, you can see the female clones developing seeds prior to any other male flowering. Now, since the clones are generally very small (I only use clones in very small pots that were stuck in the transplanting queue for quite some time) it’s pretty easy to get an idea of how many seeds are forming on each clone. With that given, it’s rather easy to tell whether there are any more seeds forming after another male releases its pollen. From what I can tell, this is not the case. This impression is corroborated by my observation that the offspring of these clones consistently shows traits from the earliest flowering males (or at least the line the male stems from) but not from the later flowering males.

But even without all that, I still think what J-Icky said it’s self-evident: A fully or mostly pollinated female will pump all of its energy into producing seeds: It won’t produce much more bud matter and it also stops producing resin after it got pollinated because it only develops flowers in order to reproduce and it (more or less) only produces resin to make the pollen stick to its flowers (the resin also seems to serve other purposes though, such as UV-protection and to work as a natural insecticide).
If a female is only partly pollinated and not all of its energy is needed to develop seeds, it keeps developing buds as well as resin in order to produce even more seeds. In this case, later flowering males still have a chance to pollinate it as well.

If it wasn’t the case that the female changes its hormonal balance after being fully/mostly pollinated and therefore pumping all of its energy into seed production, its growing behaviour wouldn’t change as dramatically as it does.
And if it wasn’t the case that this is a one way road and the females would be able to develop even more bud matter even after being fully/motsly pollinated, any open pollination would result in the females developing thousands and thousands of seeds, no matter how wimpy they are. This is clearly not the case. In fact, it would beg the question why any pollinated female should stop producing seeds at all, when there's flowering males present.

 

[romanoweed]

Yes Mohadib, thanks. Good, then small open polls can easily become just a single-early pollination.
Could one not avoid that trough cutting say 95 Percent pollen of early males away? But attention , i know male polen is extremly strong. One little male can pollinate nearly fields. Probably just let 3 Pollenthingys over.. Or do it yourway with separate Manmade crisscross pollinisation(Every male x every Female) Peace

 

[Mohadib]

Yes Mohadib, thanks. Good, then small open polls can easily become just a single-early pollination.
Could one not avoid that trough cutting say 95 Percent pollen of early males away? But attention , i know male polen is extremly strong. One little male can pollinate nearly fields. Probably just let 3 Pollenthingys over.. Or do it yourway with separate Manmade crisscross pollinisation(Every male x every Female) Peace

Well, a comparatively safe way to make sure all the males can contribute to the pollination is to collect pollen of every male and hand-pollinate the females one by one. Depending on the number of males and the possibilities one has to seperate plants from each other, this might be a lot of work though.
An easier way would be to collect pollen from all the males, mix it up and then letting it pollinate the female plants all at once. If you have a male that's flowering a lot earlier than the others, so you have to store it until the other males are ready, I'd add a larger amount of this pollen to the mix, as time will have an impact of the viability on the pollen, no matter how well you store it.

 

[JohnnyChicago]

I thought I got the seeds, but turns out the seller didn't wanna sell them. Found a guy who had Bodhi's Hollywood Pure Kush and thought it would be cool to reproduce them as this is quite a hard strain to find these days. Anyone got some Hollywood Pure Kush lying around ?

You can't reproduce a strain only by using 2 parents and if you do, then you should at least do a f2 selection.

 

[Sunshineinabag]

Males males males

Males males males

Well, a comparatively safe way to make sure all the males can contribute to the pollination is to collect pollen of every male and hand-pollinate the females one by one. Depending on the number of males and the possibilities one has to seperate plants from each other, this might be a lot of work though.
An easier way would be to collect pollen from all the males, mix it up and then letting it pollinate the female plants all at once. If you have a male that's flowering a lot earlier than the others, so you have to store it until the other males are ready, I'd add a larger amount of this pollen to the mix, as time will have an impact of the viability on the pollen, no matter how well you store it.

I have enough experience to discern female traits that are appealing to most discerning farmers....however I need an experienced farmer to help me understand the key traits to look for in males please......I just used an absolute mayhem male with great vigor and aromas to pollinate a Jamaican like lambsbread female that hit 7 feet inside a tent and so full of seed I cried until I realized the potential those pods could poss hold....I'm willing to share

 

[Mohadib]

I have enough experience to discern female traits that are appealing to most discerning farmers....however I need an experienced farmer to help me understand the key traits to look for in males please......I just used an absolute mayhem male with great vigor and aromas to pollinate a Jamaican like lambsbread female that hit 7 feet inside a tent and so full of seed I cried until I realized the potential those pods could poss hold....I'm willing to share

Of course it depends on ones personal prefarence, but generally speaking, traits to look out for in males are more or less the same as for females and encompass smell, vigour, structure, flower structure (especially the amount of flowers) and flowering time - some people won't even use any males that don't show signs of frost in late flower. Depending on what you're looking for, things such as leaf/flower colour or leaf form may also be considered.

So I guess the only real tip I can give you is this: If you really want to go somewhere with your crosses, don't use shitty plants to begin with! Not even one! It will haunt you! It's not worth it!

 

[Sunshineinabag]

A frosty male plant! My hunt begins! I digress this pollination is fun! But it can put a hurting on my headstash potential lmao only downside

Buick I appreciate your insight. I have alot to learn about male selections.

 

[JimmyToucan]

In fact I have seen it myself – at least to a certain extend.

: It won’t produce much more bud matter and it also stops producing resin after it got pollinated because it only develops flowers in order to reproduce and it (more or less) only produces resin to make the pollen stick to its flowers (the resin also seems to serve other purposes though, such as UV-protection and to work as a natural insecticide).
t.

Yes, energy is expended making seeds instead of packing on tons more flower, but in no way does the resin act as a glue for the pollen to stick to the female flower nor do they stop producing resin when pollinated.

 

[mr underhill]

Yes, energy is expended making seeds instead of packing on tons more flower, but in no way does the resin act as a glue for the pollen to stick to the female flower nor do they stop producing resin when pollinated.

i agree and will add that if the plant is healthy and being fed properly the pollinated bud sites will continue to produce bracts and swell as large as any other non pollinated bud site. I have a room full of plants that were selectively isolated and pollinated fully , 4 branches per plant. Just about at harvest and if the pollinated branches weren't tagged one would never know which branches were looking at the plant. Right beside those I have plants of the same cuts at same stage in flower but no pollinating on those and again, looking at the room of 30 plants, one would not be able to tell which ones were seeded and which ones were not.
If your plant is stalling out during seed production, it's not being fed properly.

 

[Emperortaima]

I dont know what variety it is.. but you cant reproduce variety by using only two parents. that is not reproduction. so I feel about it as watered down version of whatever it is..

Watered down implies outcrossed thus not pure bred like as an example Alien OG is watered down Alien Tech as it only has 25% tech in its lineage... also two plants a male and female still can give you many expressions just speaking from experience.. blessed be


Also to the fellow who started this thread if its cool with whom you got em from do what you feel is best and good luck on this hope all goes as should have a good one

 

[smilley]

Selling a F2 seed as the original is unethical. The breeder who produced the S1's locked in specific traits from the original mother and father. the children won't produce the same results. There will be more diversity in the progeny the appearance of recessive genes and traits. This isn't such a bad thing but they are not duplicates of the originals.

 

[Happy Times]

I’m kind of surprised more people don’t cube strains to come up with stable seedlines, like Soul did with Princess/Cinderella

 

[burningfire]

I’m kind of surprised more people don’t cube strains to come up with stable seedlines, like Soul did with Princess/Cinderella

it's not really that simple.. there's still a lot of variation in established seed lines, it's not like cannabis breeders are on the same level as some of the breeders of legal crops. even with feminized seeds you will get variation, it's not a 1:1 clone of the plant.

 

[EvergreenState]

I feel really good about it if you send me a couple hundred seeds.

 

[Medfinder]

I dont know what variety it is.. but you cant reproduce variety by using only two parents. that is not reproduction. so I feel about it as watered down version of whatever it is..

This....

Unless you have alot of seed stock ...testing equipment and time.

At this very moment billions of dollars are being spent in this global industry.

Effect taste etc.. is giving way to trademark and patient with dna genetic logging protecting strains that are highly sought after.

 

[REALPOTency]

depending where you live,
the USA scene is very different to Europe or
South America,
the USA market is dominant for clone only,
so the seeds are second option for growers,
the last years in europe or South America if you have the contact is possible buy the clone only,
but in general the Seed are first option and necessary for growing,
i live on south America and the seeds are legal here i can buy from everywhere without law problems, make a selection and be happy
so for me is necessary the seedmarkers and depends the reputation or experience of they,
... different history to clone or plants what are illegal here.
good smokes

 

[Ready4]

Of course no matter what you do, somebody will piss & moan - they are your seeds, do what you wish. The concept of ethics is pretty much non-existent/ a joke - many of the big seed breeders over the years, even "respected" ones, have told a huge line of bullshit about many of their strains. Mentioning is fine & respectful when called for. If the seed line is no longer available, hell yes make some up - the original "breeder" did not keep the seed line ongoing so why anybody thinks that "breeder" is owed anything is a joke. If you cannot bother to keep your seed lines going, don't cry if somebody else steps up.
NDN"s 88g13/HP gets mentioned by a few in regards to his "intentions". But NDN was not the original breeder of that strain. Great he made some seeds years later. Criticism of Hazeman etc is nonsense. Selfish people who just want to hoard.

Grateful here for CSG's " Grateful Casey" seeds I got years ago that cranked out a stellar first class Casey Jones that is never let it go strain - that is a great example of how to go about reproducing a "rare" or out of stock seed.

A great weekend for all is wished here ! Party down ! : > )

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

Most folks who have bought or been gifted seeds from me are other breeders, so it always surprises me when someone asks if they have a 'right' to breed the seeds I gave, or sold them. I figure they found me because they're looking for breeding stock. I'm proud of the genetic contributions I've made over the last 50 years. Seeing other breeders work with, and improve my own work is the highest compliment I could receive.

As to breeding ethics, it's a mistake for a newbie breeder to fail to recognize the shoulders they stand on. Too often, newbies create some new 'strain' and claim to have basically pulled it out their ass, which of course is impossible. 20 years ago, you might have fooled some folks, but now most knowledgeable growers would like to see a pedigree. Not only does it seem shady, and make us not trust that person, but a strain pulled out the ass definitely does not have as much value as one created from known lineage.

Another thing about breeding ethics is, if you're not willing to sell people seeds that could grow a better plant than the parents they came from, you should consider quitting. Too often, newbie breeders try to keep control of their projects by 'breeding down' to customers. Some even purposely sell seeds that are from less than select parents. 'Stability' or lack of variation is desirable to a degree, but it is NOT desirable if there's no chance of improvement in future generations.

 

[BabTaHerbless]

Of course no matter what you do, somebody will piss & moan - they are your seeds, do what you wish. The concept of ethics is pretty much non-existent/ a joke - many of the big seed breeders over the years, even "respected" ones, have told a huge line of bullshit about many of their strains. Mentioning is fine & respectful when called for. If the seed line is no longer available, hell yes make some up - the original "breeder" did not keep the seed line ongoing so why anybody thinks that "breeder" is owed anything is a joke. If you cannot bother to keep your seed lines going, don't cry if somebody else steps up.
NDN"s 88g13/HP gets mentioned by a few in regards to his "intentions". But NDN was not the original breeder of that strain. Great he made some seeds years later. Criticism of Hazeman etc is nonsense. Selfish people who just want to hoard.

well, i mean, it could depends on how you're playing your own life, your own policy.


Won't seem silly or irritating anybody but, for example,in the case someone who has gifted me in the past some seeds got problems that toke him away from preserving his hard work on genetics, before proceed to sell or just gifting them all around... well, I would be gratefully proud on returning him what he believed was lost.