How are you selecting your males?

[Blind Joe Death]

yea..
Well, of course there are RECESSIVE traits in the parents, but this is so widely talked about info on modern cannabis forums, i didn't think i have to repeat the term "recessive traits" in every post. Every plant is an individual when it comes to terps, stature and effect etc, but how balanced the seed line is depends on the parents. Very basic and old info, but now it's written down again. Rewind and repeat.

Thou i'm not very experienced grower of haze hybrids, i have smoked many and not i'm not a huge fan nowaday. If you read grow and smoke reports, people tend to be saying the shorter more BLD type NL5 leaning phenos of Nevil's Haze are more stoney. Think about that. So i really think you can get an idea of the effect from grow /smoke reports if you're seasoned smoker and have smoked/grown many different strains. As i said all along.

And some people write really great smoke reports, from which you can get a good idea of the effect.

I'm very picky about the effect because of my med condition, but i'm also sort of passionate weed and traditional hash smoker. I'd smoke every day, all day long if i didn't have to go to work, forget about it.

If you know what kind of an effect the Haze plants Nevil used bring to some hybrid, you can have some kind of an idea how his other Haze hybrids might be like, even if you haven't grown some of them. They're not the same but when you know there's Haze in them, you have an idea what it might bring to the pot.

I prolly notice the Haze effect pretty well cause i'm not a huge fan of most phenos. Some are very nice.
..i'm not a big fan of NL5 either. Boring, mongy effect for me.

Peace.

No ill will was meant...

And no I'm not talking about recessive traits, although those are hidden...

In true F1 hybrid the plants will show 50/50 traits but once you inbreed to F2 and beyond the traits are shuffled so much that it would be hard to tell from leaf shape alone...especially with todays poly-poly hybrids

While this may be true of some of the plants more closely resembling their mother or father it will most certainly not always be the case.

 

[Natural high]

In true F1 hybrid the plants will show 50/50 traits..

This is a very common misconception.

If two pure breeding strains are crossed then all the F1 progeny will be exactly the same, although they may lean heavily towards one parent or another or be a mix of the two. Pure breeding Cannabis plants are very rare though so most F1 crosses are with non-pure breeding plants i.e. they have a degree of heterozygosity.

In this case, every plant will be different and some may lean heavily towards one parent or another. The high degree of variability is due to both recombination during meiosis, and the fact that only one chromosome of each pair is passed to the progeny.


.

 

[Burt]

“.i'm not a big fan of NL5 either. Boring, mongy effect for me”
That’s not real NL5
I haven’t seen real NL5 in over 10 years and the breeders out there don’t have a fucking clue imo
Boring and mongy it ain’t-it’s an earthy, piney masterpiece of breeding that is an amazing hybrid, not a generic big bud stone
There is a decent bit of Sativa in there and one can puff tuff on her all day w/out burn out

 

[Blind Joe Death]

This is a very common misconception.

If two pure breeding strains are crossed then all the F1 progeny will be exactly the same, although they may lean heavily towards one parent or another or be a mix of the two. Pure breeding Cannabis plants are very rare though so most F1 crosses are with non-pure breeding plants i.e. they have a degree of heterozygosity.

In this case, every plant will be different and some will lean heavily towards one parent or another. The high degree of variability is due to both recombination during meiosis, and the fact that only one chromosome of each pair is passed to the progeny.

This is why I said True F1s...when in fact most today arent...most being the key word...if you grow a ten pack of true F1s you arent going to see every possible plant...once you get into thousands you will see plants that are more like one or the other and a 50/50 mix of both

Saying that it will be a 50/50 split between parents was wrong on my part its more like a split 3 ways, not that the plants will show a 50/50 mix of the parents in the F1. The F2 generation is were you see more variability. Once you inbreed further things start to turn homozygous...it isnt that way at the beggining...but inbreeding doesnt necessarily have to make things homozygous it is simply a cross within your family...picking the right canidates has much more to do with this.

That being said, I think we are on the same page and my initial wording was confusing.

My point was at a certain point you can't tell what a plant will be like just by looking at it.

Maybe Sam can chime in as he has bred the most homozygous variety at this time

 

[angelgoob]

REZ DOG still in biz? he had inbred lines. IBL's. My autos expressed 2/3 1 phenotype. 1/3 other longer pheno.

Funny - they dryed at different times. so the bud I was feeling wasn't dry and the ones behind it were. Woops.

Now if you breed for true traits that are expressed always, the have to be non-recessive, because when both are expressed, something goes away from the plant, right?

BTW I liked Northern Lights. Giggly as shit. but that was back then.

don't forget about horitzontal gene transfer and silent genes. Maybe way back the plant was massive in it's evolution with the co2 evironment.

thats my big seeds thing I have. I just got another idea. I am sure you know. Pump dat co2 and keep it high. all while making grow conditions ill to condition the plants. how much can a plant adapt? from generation to generation, epigenetically or via natural mutation? (don't give me the evolution vs adapation debate here LOL)

Did anything I say make sense or did I hit on anything? Ah im new. This is why ive asked the question of course.

BTW what about p88 to c99 breeding. Remember how C99 was bred? Highly tight pheno groups i assume. Just look up it's history.

 

[Blind Joe Death]

REZ DOG still in biz? he had inbred lines. IBL's.

He who must not be named must also not be talked about here. But yes he's trying to make a comeback...trying

Now if you breed for true traits that are expressed always, the have to be non-recessive, because when both are expressed, something goes away from the plant, right?

Not necessarily, you can breed for recessive traits..in which case those plants would breed true for those traits

BTW what about p88 to c99 breeding. Remember how C99 was bred? Highly tight pheno groups i assume. Just look up it's history.

This is another form of inbreeding called cubing or commonly referred to as backcrossing..which, yes, is another way to get to homozygous plants.

 

[angelgoob]

Cubing's hard though eh? take many generations.

Good think these autoflowers are 55 days seed to bud....(nervous laugh)

 

[oldbootz]

Cubing is not really needed to breed. Only one F1 x P1 back cross is needed and then further breeding should focus on inbreeding filial generations. Further back crossing to P1s can actually reset the breeding work back a few steps.

 

[bigbadbiddy]

We don't re-reverse the male at all and we don't use the reversed male to breed with. All it is used for is to give an idea what the original male might bring to the table if we choose to to breed with it. The method can be used to help decide which males we are going to use and which males we will eliminate. It's not fool-proof and despite looking good on the reverse it may still make a poor male for breeding. In the end it's just an educated guess.

Hope this makes more sense..

I understand but the point I am trying to make is, wouldn't you first have to try to re-reverse a male and compare its progeny to the progeny of the untreated male?
Because only if both passed on same or similar traits in their progeny, would it sound conclusive to me that reversing a male and smoking it, gives even as much as an educated guess about what is passed on to the progeny.

Until this has been compared, in my logic/head, this is just anecdotal and not even an educated guess, just a guess.

Or maybe I am missing scientific evidence that is available to y'all that confirms reversing a male to female doesn't change its genetics whatsoever, certainly not in a way that it passes on different traits to its progeny.

 

[Natural high]

I understand but the point I am trying to make is, wouldn't you first have to try to re-reverse a male and compare its progeny to the progeny of the untreated male?
Because only if both passed on same or similar traits in their progeny, would it sound conclusive to me that reversing a male and smoking it, gives even as much as an educated guess about what is passed on to the progeny.

Until this has been compared, in my logic/head, this is just anecdotal and not even an educated guess, just a guess.

Or maybe I am missing scientific evidence that is available to y'all that confirms reversing a male to female doesn't change its genetics whatsoever, certainly not in a way that it passes on different traits to its progeny.

Reversing a male (or female) doesn't change the genetics in any way. All that is changed is the balance of hormones which results in female sex expression. The change is only temporary and the plant remains an exact genetic replica of the original.

 

[bigbadbiddy]

If that is so, then I understand why nobody felt the need to compare the progeny of the treated vs untreated male.

Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[Spaventa]

Just bought Sensi Mothers finest and Black Label Nevilles Haze - 10 of each. That makes 30 regular seeds with the Western Winds from my stash. Hoping for maybe a couple of boys from each. Think I will just flower clones of them, dry them slow and burn them in the yard. If what I'm looking for is there, it should show up clearly enough.

The Black label are copies from pre 2007 GHS NH, the good ones

The Mothers finest is a hazier selection of Jack Herer

 

[Natural high]

Just bought Sensi Mothers finest and Black Label Nevilles Haze - 10 of each. That makes 30 regular seeds with the Western Winds from my stash. Hoping for maybe a couple of boys from each. Think I will just flower clones of them, dry them slow and burn them in the yard. If what I'm looking for is there, it should show up clearly enough.

The Black label are copies from pre 2007 GHS NH, the good ones

The Mothers finest is a hazier selection of Jack Herer

Nice seed stash. I think the mothers finest could yield some interesting finds. Are you looking for the smell of incense?

 

[Spaventa]

Nice seed stash. I think the mothers finest could yield some interesting finds. Are you looking for the smell of incense?

Thanks man, Im buzzing about these things and YES absolutely incense is the objective 100 percent

If I can find a male with frankincense I want to cross it to my female clone collection and see if I can add loud frankincense to them without taking anything away.

 

[HeriMarry]

Are there any benefits of choosing males that take longer to show sex after the filp to flowering? I've read that a male that takes longer to show, allows more of the female to be expressed in seeds. Also heard it was one of those breeder secrets. Just curious ...

 

[angelgoob]

I wonder how males respond to topping stress or environmental stress and that gets passed down. THen it's faster flowering eh?

 

[angelgoob]

Sometimes a plant has a lot of energy in the seed, but also needs light!

Oh and here's some bull I be talking about: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/037811279390177O