House & Garden Nutrients

[krunchbubble]

Let me get this straight. You add H&G first. That produces salt in the medium. Then you add their "salt remover".

Maybe I am just dumb ol country boy...but why don't you just stop overdoing the salts in the first place?

This has got to be the stupidest shit I have ever heard.

edit...so first they want you to overpay for salts, then they want you to pay for something to remove it. Like I said, take a fucking class.

maybe READ about what Drip Clean IS before making a statement like that?

 

[YosemiteSam]

Avenger told us what it is.

Again, name me one professional green house that uses it. Dumb as fuck is what it is.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Ok, here is what I came up with.

Soil A salt index of 7.64 ( 1.66 SI/unit plant nutrient)
Soil B salt index of 6.4 ( 1.12 SI/unit plant nutrient)

These are probably a close approximation.
http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/support/library/ff/salt_index_calculation.htm
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/greenhouse/nursery/guides/ghhdbk/salts.html


During the math, I figured out that they use PeKacid in the formulation of the soil B also

That could actually be considered a legit use. But why...you can add K and P a whole lot cheaper.

 

[Guest 150314]

Avenger told us what it is.

Again, name me one professional green house that uses it. Dumb as fuck is what it is.

im to lazy to mix salt anymore. screw the additives i just buy the base line .. its a lot less of a pain measuring some micro and bloom to fill my rezs rather than weighing different salts on a scale and all that jazz.

 

[YosemiteSam]

What do you use if not salts?

edit...the a and b are actually plenty if applied by someone that isn't trying to pump the buds up. But it is salts...you are mixing salts. The additives are totally fucking retarded though. Still it lacks Ca, Zn and B if you are shooting for the highest Brix levels possible. But then again, you can always count on Floramite, Merit and Eagle 20...right. More waste based on not understanding the needs of the plant you are trying to grow.

edit dos...understand mineral (salt) needs and quit fucking poisoning your customers for chris sake. not aimed at you greenmango.

 

[joe fresh]

That could actually be considered a legit use. But why...you can add K and P a whole lot cheaper.

No, read a bit more in to the pekacid, its a specially formulated Phosphorus and potassium acid(P-K Acid = PeKacid...)

its designed to lower the ph of the salt molecule to make it more absorbable to the plant rather than building up because the plant can not break down the salt

this is what i gather from reading up on it, but if im wrong maybe avenger can clear it up for us...

 

[Guest 150314]

nevermind, wrong thread.

 

[YosemiteSam]

No, read a bit more in to the pekacid, its a specially formulated Phosphorus and potassium acid(P-K Acid = PeKacid...)

its designed to lower the ph of the salt molecule to make it more absorbable to the plant rather than building up because the plant can not break down the salt

this is what i gather from reading up on it, but if im wrong maybe avenger can clear it up for us...

Again...why not use the right amount of salt of salt in the first place? Cause it don't make fucking piece of shit nute companies enough money perhaps?

 

[krunchbubble]

Again...why not use the right amount of salt of salt in the first place? Cause it don't make fucking piece of shit nute companies enough money perhaps?

who cares what people spend on the nutrients of THERE choice??

did you just come into this thread to argue? or is there a point to all this?

 

[Biatchzxz]

Truth is though. You can add what you need when you need. That's why they make trace minerals mix. Every plant requires different amounts of shit. No one company will have a perfect formula for everything. It's just impossible To know. If you know your plants well enough you could know what to do in advance I think they got a nice amount of cal on there stuff. But more important as long a you know what ur feeding and seeing the reaction you could figure it out from there. No companies Have a perfect formula. You will need to monitor your plants to know what to do. You can't just say fyck them and they suck if you hav never tried them yourself. Professional greenhouses usually have there own methods they stick to and wok on a more commercial level. I don't think h&g aimed at the commercial clients more so the regular "home grower". I could be wrong. But plenty of people have had great results with them. I don't think it's fair to bad mouth them either. You could use the most expensive shit on the market with the best possibles nutrients but if you use it the wrong way or overdose no matter what ull have crappy results. It really comes down to PERSONAL PREFERENCE and the skill of the person and the way you use it. Even the simplest regimens could be problematic. Less is more no matter what IMO. Just gotta be a little open minded

 

[YosemiteSam]

who cares what people spend on the nutrients of THERE choice??

did you just come into this thread to argue? or is there a point to all this?

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with what you choose to use or what you spend.

I have a problem with you telling other people that this is the shit...when in fact it is a bullshit scheme to sell more salt and then a way to remove too much salt. That is why I came in this thread

I think in my first post here I pointed out...got a salt problem in the media...run some pH 5.2 water through it and be done with it. Then don't add too much salt

there is no reason whatsover for new growers to buy into this hydro nute company bullshit and you are doing them a disservice. They are free to make up their own minds, that is true...but I am free to present a different perspective.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Not exactly, but kind of sorta. Salt index is just a relative comparison of the EC any fertilizer will have to the EC that sodium nitrate in solution has.

Each fertilizer salt when in solution at any given concentration(ppm, %, ect) will conduct electricity better or worse than any other salt in solution at the same concentration.

The lighter molecular weight the salt, the more conductive the solution at the same concentration as a heavier salt.

Hence fertilizers with heavier salts like potassium phosphate instead of potassium chloride have a lower Salt Index.

So that is why the ppm scale is .5 for NaCl and .7 for KCl. Interesting. And, hence, your private joke about NaCl and EC...I finally see.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Truth is though. You can add what you need when you need. That's why they make trace minerals mix. Every plant requires different amounts of shit. No one company will have a perfect formula for everything. It's just impossible To know. If you know your plants well enough you could know what to do in advance I think they got a nice amount of cal on there stuff. But more important as long a you know what ur feeding and seeing the reaction you could figure it out from there. No companies Have a perfect formula. You will need to monitor your plants to know what to do. You can't just say fyck them and they suck if you hav never tried them yourself. Professional greenhouses usually have there own methods they stick to and wok on a more commercial level. I don't think h&g aimed at the commercial clients more so the regular "home grower". I could be wrong. But plenty of people have had great results with them. I don't think it's fair to bad mouth them either. You could use the most expensive shit on the market with the best possibles nutrients but if you use it the wrong way or overdose no matter what ull have crappy results. It really comes down to PERSONAL PREFERENCE and the skill of the person and the way you use it. Even the simplest regimens could be problematic. Less is more no matter what IMO. Just gotta be a little open minded

OK...pretty close to true. So why tell them they need something that is an obvious scam. Why not tell them if you fuck up and overdo it use this to get yourself out of a mess...but next time don't overdo it in the first place. I would have no problem at all with that.

But use it every time...for the life of me that makes zero sense to me.

Plus...just out of curiosity...does P and K cause all excess salts to precipitate equally, or does it only cause some to precipitate? Or does it still depend on pH and exact concentrations.

At best the shit is a bandaid. Although, it could, in fact, be a bandaid designed specifically for the excesses that H&G sell you.

edit...I will say this though, all plants share somwehere around 99% of the exact same dna, same as people. How different feed do you think that 1% difference really makes? You might wanna start actually reading citations before you spout stoner bullshit as the truth.

 

[joe fresh]

OK...pretty close to true. So why tell them they need something that is an obvious scam. Why not tell them if you fuck up and overdo it use this to get yourself out of a mess...but next time don't overdo it in the first place. I would have no problem at all with that.

But use it every time...for the life of me that makes zero sense to me.

Plus...just out of curiosity...does P and K cause all excess salts to precipitate equally, or does it only cause some to precipitate? Or does it still depend on pH and exact concentrations.

At best the shit is a bandaid. Although, it could, in fact, be a bandaid designed specifically for the excesses that H&G sell you.

edit...I will say this though, all plants share somwehere around 99% of the exact same dna, same as people. How different feed do you think that 1% difference really makes? You might wanna start actually reading citations before you spout stoner bullshit as the truth.

i think you mis under stand the use of drip clean, as do most...

it is NOT a flushing agent...


say you feed your plants a 20-20-20 fert...you feed it this once a week...but the plant does not use these minerals equally, rather eats say 16-5-18 per week(just an example, too lazy to write it all out in detail), therefore there will be left over salts of what ever the plant did not take up

H&G mentions to only use drip clean from the start and not half way through or you risk burning your plants, and it makes sense if you think about it...

to put it simple, it doesnt stop salt build up, but rather dissolves these "left over salts" so the plant can use them, if you have a salt build upand use drip clean you will burn you plants for sure because it will release all these salts and make them availible to the plant to use immediately, so if salt in medium is at EC4 like mine was, and you start to use drip clean for the first tim it will be similar to feeding your plants at an EC of 4...not exactly but this is just the general notion.

this is what i gather from doing some studying and info from what avenger has posted as well

(ive been doing alot of university studies on salt content in soil...)

 

[YosemiteSam]

So in your example P would be the excess. Drip Clean is 0-40-60. I am sorry but there is no magic in the known universe that makes that chemistry happen. Anions repel each other period and a little extra K ain't gonna complex P

Yes, it will be very good at tying up Ca and to a lesser extent other cations. So I ain't buying universal excess ion removal.

Besides...if H%G knows what needs to be removed why don't they make a nute so nothing needs to be removed? and why don't they do it in a two part formula...no need for additives.

In my opinion using it gives you an excellent chance to precipitate calcium phospate and possibly iron phosphate. Beyond that I fail to see it doing as much as pHing water at different levels.

 

[joe fresh]

So in your example P would be the excess. Drip Clean is 0-40-60. I am sorry but there is no magic in the known universe that makes that chemistry happen. Anions repel each other period and a little extra K ain't gonna complex P

Yes, it will be very good at tying up Ca and to a lesser extent other cations. So I ain't buying universal excess ion removal.

Besides...if H%G knows what needs to be removed why don't they make a nute so nothing needs to be removed? and why don't they do it in a two part formula...no need for additives.

In my opinion using it gives you an excellent chance to precipitate calcium phospate and possibly iron phosphate. Beyond that I fail to see it doing as much as pHing water at different levels.

im not chemist, so i can only tell you my gatherings of information i find and look into over the web....


as for the part in bold....this would be because no 2 species of plants eat the same nutes at the same rate...same goes for no 2 strains

 

[Avenger]

I am trying to work out the nutrient profile of the h&g soil a/b plus the assorted additives, but am finding it hard to gather the proper N-P-K for each. Joe, would you be so kind as to post the Guaranteed Analysis form your bottles?

for instance, the multi zen or multi zyme(is it even the same product?) msds lists the 0.5-0.1-? while this response on the h&g website FAQ says it is 2-0-7.

 

[joe fresh]

dont have the multizyme...ran out, but got everything else and ill be glad topost em up gimme about an hour

 

[TREE KING]

Just A & B

very nice! what strain is that Green lung?

 

[krunchbubble]

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with what you choose to use or what you spend.

I have a problem with you telling other people that this is the shit...when in fact it is a bullshit scheme to sell more salt and then a way to remove too much salt. That is why I came in this thread

you have a problem with ME saying this nutrient is EXTREMELY good, when YOU think its a bullshit scheme to sell more salts?

WTF?

are you really THAT stupid? SERIOUSLY? or is this really a joke?


HERE, ill say it again, so YOU can take it in........


H@G IS BY FAR THE BEST NUTRIENT I HAVE EVER USED. I HAVE NEVER GOT THE WEIGHT OR QUALITY OFF OF ANY OTHER BRAND! (10+BRANDS). MY BEST HARVEST WAS 7 1/2 LB'S OFF OF 3K WATTS, RUNNING PURE KUSH. YIELDING 8+ OZ PLANTS IN 3 GALLON COCO POTS WAS MY NORM