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Honduras x Panama Problem?

afman916

Member
So I posted over at the Infirmary as well but hoping I might get a little more traction here as I'm dealing with all Ace varieties and wondering if people with experience on the HxP strain can chime in...


So I think I might have a problem with nitrogen deficiency in one of my plants. Here’s some quick context before I get into it:

3x3 tent with two 240w Kingbrite LEDs (measuring with lux meter to hit ~30-40k in veg and ~50-70k in flower). BuildASoil (BAS) nutrient (V 3.0) and mineral (V 2.0) kits in organic living soil – soil base is peat, rice hulls, coarse perlite, pumice, worm castings, four different types of compost (lobster, BAS Malibu, BAS fish, BAS pinto bean). Popped seeds in a seed starting mix in small pots (around volume of a Solo cup) and progressively potted up to final (small pots -> ½ gallon -> 1 gallon -> 3 gallon -> 7 gallon). Used mycos with final transplant. Have kept temps under 80 the whole time, right around 74-77, humidity 40-50%. Watering with spring water (Deer Park 2.5 gallon jugs) ph’D at 7.0 before additions, which have been: FulPower, BAS Big 6 (micronutrients and humic Acid), BAS AgSil, BAS Coconut Powder, BAS Aloe Vera Flakes, BAS Yucca Extract, Fish and Seaweed emulsion, and just now starting to add BAS BuildABloom to waterings. At this point, I’m watering twice a week, about a half-gallon per plant. I have a plastic water bottle that’s right at a quart; drilled a bunch of holes in the cap and I use it as a pseudo watering can. Two of those per plant about every 3-4 days. Plants are mulched with straw and were topdressed with BAS BuildAFlower when they made it to 7G pots, and I also just topdressed yesterday with a blend of BuildAFlower, ground up malted/sprouted barley, and BAS Craft Blend.

So everything has been going GREAT up to this point (day 15 flower, veg for 7.5 weeks), from what I can tell at least. Strains (all Ace Seeds) are Thai Chi, Honduras x Panama, Nepal Jam, and Violeta. The HxP is what’s giving me problems. It’s by far the most vigorous in terms of branching and leaves, and I’m wondering if it hasn’t depleted most of the nutrients in the soil at this point. Over the past couple of weeks, I’ve noticed the HxP yellowing a bit over the entire plant. It seems to be between the leaf margins and older leaves. Just yesterday during my topdressing/watering, I had to prune some dead/dying leaves that were totally yellow and had a few brown spots. These leaves mainly came from the bottom interior, but I can notice that the yellowing seems to be moving up the plant.
The kicker is that everyone else seems to be doing just fine foliage-wise. So I’m not sure why only the HxP would be exhibiting symptoms of N deficiency – unless it has indeed depleted the soil since it’s the largest by far.

I’m just looking for some feedback as to what my problem looks like and, if so, what ya’ll would recommend for a fast-acting organic source of N. I’m thinking blood meal just for that plant for the next couple waterings, if so?

Happy to provide a ton more pics/info if needed, thanks!

Pics are: HxP couple days before switching to flower, overall tent shot couple days before switching to flower, overall tent shot ten days ago, overall tent shot yesterday, HxP and Thai Chi nine days ago, HxP and Thai Chi yesterday, close up of HxP leaves I pruned yesterday.
 

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TexasTea

Curious Cannivore
Veteran
I had something similar last fall. Added oyster shell powder and fish meal to my recycled soil and so far not seeing any issues. So maybe it calcium like Koon suggests?
 

RED 1

Well-known member
I had something similar last fall. Added oyster shell powder and fish meal to my recycled soil and so far not seeing any issues. So maybe it calcium like Koon suggests?
Tangwena had 'similar' issues with the strain
Koondenses's fix,is the way to go,worked for T's girl
 

afman916

Member
Thanks all! So some fish mix and calcium nitrate should do it? I have a bunch of BAS Craft Blend that I just top dressed with; maybe I should mix up a little in my next watering?

Does anyone have recommendations for these nutrients that I could source from Amazon? Thinking of trying to get the amendments here as quickly as possible. BAS shipping isn’t the quickest...
 

bsgospel

Bat Macumba
Veteran
Maxicrop is decent for fish hydrolysate, they include the bones, if I recall correctly.

Yaraliva is a good cheap cal nitrate available everywhere. Check out custom hydro nutrients.
 

afman916

Member
Got it, thanks! I do have a bottle of CaliMagic (General Hydroponics) - would that work or is it not concentrated enough?
 

Paddi

GanjaGrower
Veteran
I´m "sorry" to say: Overall they look really fine in my eyes.
I have seen plants look much worse than yours, ending up with fantastic results.

You are the best judge. Do they look happy?
Do they have a healthy green color?
Do not rush. See how they respond to reduced lighthours after flipping.

Happy to provide a ton more pics/info if needed, thanks!
We need lots of pics. Pics makes us happy :jump:

P :smoke:
 

afman916

Member
Thanks Paddi - they look healthy to me, save for the lime green of the HxP. I’m also wondering if I might have the lights a bit too intense, but I’ve got each board pegged to about 3/4 power and am registering 70k at very top branches (Sativas) with rest of plants registering 45-60k. The plants are a a little lighter green towards the top, but I thought I was in a good range intensity-wise.

I have an EC and pH meter that will be delivered tomorrow. So I’m going to check everything for next watering (Thursday) and most likely add a little extra fish and calcium for that watering.

Will CalciMagic be a decent stand-in for calcium nitrate mentioned above?
 

afman916

Member
Oh and I’ll post some more pics tonight from when I had them out earlier this morning to water. Regardless of leaf coloration, bud sites are progressing nicely across the board!
 

afman916

Member
As promised yet slightly delayed - some more pics from watering session Monday morning. Description of pics:

Pic 1: overall tent shot before watering/defoliation
Pic 2: HxP overall
Pic 3: HxP lower new growth (showing how new growth is perfectly green)
Pic 4: Interior shot of yellowing/brown spotted leaf (one of the leaves from the "problem area")
Pic 5: Higher up shot of the same area
Pic 6: Nepal Jam overall
Pic 7: Nepal Jam overall (just too pretty not to show, and also to show that this girl is dark, vibrant green and in same exact mix/environment receiving same light/water as rest of them)
Pic 8: Nepal Jam and HxP side by side
Pic 9: Problem leaves removed from HxP
Pic 10: Violeta and Thai Chi
Pic 11: HxP and Thai Chi side by side for comparison
Pic 12: HxP and Thai Chi side by side for comparison
Pic 13: HxP and Thai Chi side by side for comparison (notice great bud structure so far)
Pic 14: Some problem leaves removed from Thai Chi - same general area as HxP, interior bottom middle. These leaves exhibit more of a yellowing of the veins, so seemingly a different issue from the HxP? However, rest of the plant is a great color and there are fewer "problem leaves" on the Thai Chi.
Pic 15: Overall tent shot after the watering/defoliation

So what I glean from all of this is that my sativas are seemingly having some problems, while the Nepal Jam and Violeta are chugging along just fine. So I'm wondering if it indeed is a nutrient problem in that the sativas, given how vigorously they've grown, have just sapped most everything out of the soil? Interested in hearing any thoughts ya'll have!
 

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afman916

Member
Also, I’ve got fish mix and calcium nitrate ready for tomorrow’s watering. Can anyone give me a dosing recommendation for the calcium nitrate? I’ve never used this before and am planning on using it just for the HxP girl.
 

afman916

Member
Awesome, thanks Koon! The more I read coupled with what I know about my soil/grow so far, more I really think I’ve just got a plant that’s used up most of the available nitrogen in the soil. I think I vegged for just a taaaad too long...Ace recommends flipping to flower 15 days after seeds pop for HxP :nono:

I vegged for 7.5 weeks...wanted to get a great structure.
 

bsgospel

Bat Macumba
Veteran
Re: Cali magic, you don't really need the magnesium. The magnesium will green things up but it's really a band-aid. It just covers the real problem without really solving anything. Let us know how the fish/cal/nit treats you. Paddi may be right in the end- the hon might just be naturally lighter without needing much help.
 

dubi

ACE Seeds Breeder
Vendor
Veteran
Welcome afman916 :) and thanks for dedicating this grow to our genetics, much appreciated.

All the plants look very healthy, only the Honduras x Panama seems to have had some previous problems with the feeding/watering, seems to be corrected now since the new growth looks good.
Honduras x Panama is the most vigorous strain you are growing, so probably she has depleted first the nutrients from the soil with its very active and vigorous root system.

It's very important you measure accurately the ph and ec of the exit of your pots and in your waterings and feedings to know their range and where the problem could be with this plant.
 

afman916

Member
So glad Dubi chimed in - thank you!!

Just got done with my watering and raising the lights so I could take them to full power (will post some pics later).

For the watering, I took baseline readings, nutrient mix readings, and runoff readings from the HxP. I also gave everyone an extra liter of plain water, because a few people mentioned two liters twice a week seemed a little low. I paid close attention to runoff with that last liter to make sure they weren’t saturated and that it wasn’t all running out - it wasn’t. With that last plain liter I added roughly 0.5g calcium nitrate for the HxP girl - but I removed the runoff to test PRIOR to the calcium nitrate liter, as I didn’t want to have that skew results; my plan is to hopefully not need that calcium nitrate watering each time.

Anyway, here are my readings - interested in any thoughts, and will post pics later. There were a few more yellowed/browning dead leaves on the HxP, but I don’t see as many new ones; I’ll keep an eye out for progression up the plant over the next week.

BASE
ph: 7.4
EC: 0.1
TDS (0.5): 64

NUTRIENT MIX
pH: 6.5
EC: 2.3
TDS (0.5): 1153

HxP RUNOFF POST NUTRIENT MIX
pH: 7.1
EC: 2.2
TDS (0.5): 1118

Overall I really think these girls are looking good and hoping for my best harvest yet! Will also take new lux readings and height measurements due to moving the lights up. I have two 240w Kingbrites pegged to 100% power though, so I’d imagine I’m still ok even if they look a bit too high...

Thanks all for the help and guidance!!
 
Last edited:

FletchF.Fletch

Well-known member
420club
Your runoff ec in soil is higher than my runoff from hydro. Your nutrient solution should be reduced in strength when it's feeding time, and you may want to add an extra plain water day to your irrigation cycle. So, if now for instance you feed, then water, then feed again, you would want to go feed, water, water, feed and so on. After flushing to a runoff lower than 1.8, I would dig in some Kelp Meal, Earthworm Castings, a bit of Bat Guano, and some Rock Phosphate or Bone Meal. Again, lowering your nutrients added when irrigating. I would go half the strength of your current nutrient mix and add some Organic amendments to the soil by removing the mulch (often you can just lift it up) topdressing and raking it in.
 

afman916

Member
Got it - will do! Next two waterings will be plain. And I topdressed last week with castings, BAF Craft Blend, and ground barley. So I think they’ll be good with just water for a week.

Lights are 24-28” for Sativas, 32-34” for indicas. Readings ~60k for tallest branches down to 45-50k on Indicas.
 

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