Hm. Leaf edge curling?

[Nathindica]

Here is a 3 week old from germ Jack Herer bagseed in a waterfarm. Currently being fed Lucas formula in soft tap water at (0-1.5-3). Here are the pics.

Curling has only been going on for 2 or 3 days tops. I originally thought it was too high of an EC level so I let the waterfarm run with just plain 5.6 distilled overnight... and 12 hours later nothing had changed. So I assume this means it's not the nutes?

I thought it might be temps since the nute test didn't show any signs of improvement. My temps wer at 25-26 so I lowered them down to 23 this morning. It's been about 5 hours since the temp change with no noticeable improvement.

I was under the impression that you get fast results with hydro when fixing problems... but how fast is fast? Should I have let the system run for longer than 12 hours with plain 5.6 distilled to see some results? Would it happen over the span of days or hours? I guess it ll depends on the setup. But any input is appreciated.

Any ideas?

 

[Weedhound]

Yeah, I would do both.......except I would simply lower your ec level and leave it that way. Also, edges curling UP usually indicates heat stress although I have seen abnormal ph and nuteburn do it also.

What kind of light are you using and how close is it to your plant?

 

[Weedhound]

Doh.....looking at photo. Pull your light back a bit. See if that helps as well.

 

[HeadyPete]

Upcurled edges also indicate mag def. What exactly have you fed them?

I think it is the bulb too close as well. Do you have a circulation fan blowing fresh air around your plants? That is a must.

 

[Nathindica]

Thanks for the input everyone. I've moved my light back a few more inches this morning as I woke up to no improvements again. The temps have been perfect around 23.

Does it look like she's 'praying for magnesium? or just loving the light? My inexperienced eyes can't pick out the difference. And if the problem is the light being too close... wouldn't the new growth, the growth closest to the light(heat source) curl up as well? The older leaves curling is perplexing me. It seems to my inexperienced eyes that it's an issue other than the light/heat. But in any case I moved the light back a few inches for the sake of ruling it out completely.

I've been feeding them just GH micro and bloom. Lucas style. I put some Liquid Karma in the rez a few changes ago but have dropped since it's not exactly part of the lucas formula, and i really want to see what it's capable of. Here are some pics. Anyone else see Mag deff?

And I forgot to mention I DO have a fan circulating air in the room. In fact I have 3. I think it should be good enough. Should I go out and buy some calmag? I use tap water but it's not very hard...

Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[MidLifeCrisis]

That looks like healthy, normal growth on a vigorous young'un to me....

 

[Jones]

.

 

[Weedhound]

all right......check ph and make sure your meter is freshly calibrated. I like what jones there said as well.....good thought.

good luck.

 

[B.C.]

Soft tap water?

 

[Weedhound]

In other words, does he need CalMag? I'm afraid I don't use the Lucas formula so can't say. But it would certainly match what pete said about mag def as well.

 

[Nathindica]

Thanks for the ideas everyone. I've moved my fan so the wind is bouncing off the wall of the cab before it hits the plant. and by 'hits' i mean a very gentle rustling of the leaves. So the movements are barely noticeable...but nonetheless signal air is moving around.

So the light has been moved back... airflow adjusted (just in case, im 99% sure my airflow was fine in the first place but its worth a bit of experimentation)... so I guess we'll just have to wait and see. We'll have to see how the new growth looks I guess. The curling is only restricted to the oldest fan leaves for now.. the next node up seems fine. Maybe a bit light in color if anything.

Soft tap water?

I dont get it. Isn't that better than hm let's say... hard tap water? Would you like to provide a little more information for me besides just stating what everyone already knows and adding a shitty little animation to it? Say something useful... or don't say anything at all. What's wrong with soft tap water? It seems to me like plenty of people on this site grow some amazing looking plants with tap...

I would really appreciate some good info on this. Anyone have any experience (good or bad) with soft tap in hydro?

And I'm still wondering... Whenever the problem is identified and treated, will the curling go away? Or does that just depend on the problem...

And if it WAS indeed wind/temps... wouldn't all the leaves be affected? not just the oldest? to me that signals some kind of nutrient issue. thoughts?

again i REALLY appreciate the comments. I feel like we're all on an episode of House and we're the team of doctors trying to figure out what's causing the mystery symptoms. Or is that just the full melt getting to my brain....

 

[Nathindica]

Will epsom salts work just as well for treating a mag deficiency as calmag or some sort of similar product?

Should I add a teaspoon or so of epsom to the rez and see what happens?

 

[Jones]

.

 

[JamieShoes]

I was never able to work out the correct dose for adding magnesium sulphate (from the farmers shop) as it comes by the pound and is un labelled

but here's what I figure... stick your EC pen in the feed... add sprinkles of mag sul (epson, whatever).. stir with EC pen... stop when you reach an acceptable EC for your plants....bingo.. the correct dose

 

[MidLifeCrisis]

Not trying to be controversial,...but this is a three week old seedling.... This plant hasn't even had enough time to show deficiencies. I've seen many a plant have that lip, blueberry for example amongst others... all happening due to rapid, healthy growth. There isn't any burn, no yellowing, or rust colored spots... Don't overanalyze what looks to be "normal" plant growth IMHO...you'll end up causing more problems in the long run....just my 2cents!

 

[HeadyPete]

Will epsom salts work just as well for treating a mag deficiency as calmag or some sort of similar product?

Should I add a teaspoon or so of epsom to the rez and see what happens?

yes and no. Never do anything to "see what happens". Only do things you "know what happens"...

 

[Weedhound]

Well it certainly appears to be an issue to me. And calm down, don't insult people who are trying to help you; he actually stopped, took time to read the thread and offer something. Learning is what its about here imo.

I've never used epsom salts; only CalMag so cannot tell you the correct dose. I doubt I would "just sprinkle some in and check my ec"; more than likely I would read up on Stitch's excellent thread about plant problems and look under mag def. I'll bet the answer would be right there on how to fix it.

good luck.
The chances of the leaves unbending is doubtful. If this is what you are waiting for I'd stop. Whatever the issue; it should cease to spread once you have found the problem. But I think the damage is done.

 

[HeadyPete]

What exact doses of bloom and micro are you feeding.

Here is Grat3ful H3ad's modified lucas, amounts and analysis:

So... when I was using a modified lucas formula... my nutrient profile when growing in promix was:
N 130
P 93
K 163
Mg 64
S 43
Ca 130

By mixing 8ml/gal micro and 14ml/gal bloom and watering with plain water every other watering...

Are you feeding close to that? The mag is in the bloom and if you are light on bloom, you could be light on mag.

If it doesn't improve by tomorrow, mix 1 tsp/gal of epsom salt, ph balance and water. This will give mag and sulfur.

 

[Weedhound]

I had a feeling Pete might know. Still can't rep you pete.....trying One day.......

 

[JamieShoes]

sadly Stitch never went into doses on his excellent thread but here's what he did haev to say..

Solution to fixing a Magnesium deficiency
Any Chemical/Organic nutrients that have Magnesium in them will fix a Magnesium deficiency. (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients or it will cause nutrient burn!)
Other nutrients that have magnesium in them are: Epsom salts, which is fast absorption. Dolomite lime and or garden lime (same thing just called different) which is slow absorption. Sulfate of Potash, Magnesia which is medium absorption. Worm Castings, which is slow absorption. Crabshell which is slow absorption. Earth Juice Mircoblast, which is fast acting. (a must buy!! Has lots of 2ndary nutrients).
Now if you added to much chemical nutrients and or organics,( which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) You need to Flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good enough to get rid of excessive nutrients.

I never found relevant info for Mag Sulphate.. I guess I'll stick with my sprinkle and check method for now as it seems to work for now. :smile: