HELP PLEASE HELP!!!!! my girls look like they are dying PICS!!!

[B.C.]

mm-k

mm-k

I went to og and did a search for root zone balance, there were no results... again this balance your talking about is it ph ? if so this plant didn't show any signs of ph problems in fact this plant showed NO signs of any thing but lack of water....another way to look at it is; if a plant is really sick it doesn't get better in a 12 hour period.lol I think most of us would agree that in soil it's going to take a few days to correct any wrongs (ie; ph problems, over ferting,ect...) flush or not... So yeah I say the proof is there alright, all they needed was water... Oganics taste bad ? your jokeing right ? lol the ONLY way organic grown bud would taste bad would be if you gave it a high nitro. fert (like 5-1-1)in the later half of flower. But we all no better than that don't we... If you use bb you won't have to worry about that, as a matter of fact anything that is in big bloom or the soil will break down in the plant when you cure it,it turns into a favanoid (sp) which is the natural taste of the plant, ONLY BECAUSE IT IS ORGANIC ! FF has done a great job with most of there products, esp. there soil if it was overly rich your plants would burn up... nope it's just right and if there were wide spread problems this is the first place you'd hear about it.... I too have the best tasting,cleanest burning buds on my block lol I'm also the biggest "pot snob" I know ! hehe.... If anyone has doubt about what I said about oganics, go to overgrow.com and do a search on it lol check out sick plants also... take care...BC

 

[Crazy Composer]

I've been growing organically for decades. I still do. I just add the organics to a medium that can be stripped of them before harvest. You can't do that. Not with organic soil. Even having no N left, you'll still have a myriad of other trace elements to get out of the way.

I know what good bud grown in FF OF tastes like, not bad, not as good as soiless organics though. A cure can take care of those things, but it doesn't get rid of what you're smoking, it just helps to mellow it. I want buds that I can smoke within 4 or 5 days of harvest, that taste -and are- clean. This debate here is an old one. It may just come down to personal preference, I like my herb clean, even without a long cure. I want buds that are squeeky clean BEFORE curing, so that they're outstanding when they're ready.

Organics grow good plants, but if the soil isn't totally depleted by harvest, you'll taste them, sure as the sun will rise tomorrow. And it's simply not as good as it gets when you taste that. Again, that's just my personal preference. Since I've never grown in FF (or any other rich organic soil) and had all the built-in elements deplete before harvest, none of it tasted as good as what we produce now. Just the way the mop flops. (I've used Fox Farm Ocean Forest, Light Warrior, and their entire line of nutes. I don't like them as much as other lines. They grow big buds, but leave nutes in the bud flesh. No doubt. It's NOT totally organic, no matter what the bottle says.

Don't knock it til you try it. I've used organic soils, for decades I've grown plants in organic soils. I know a way to make them taste better now. Writing for pot mags has brought me countless opportunities to try different herbs grown in a myriad of different ways. Because it's my job to write about cultivation, I also get to hear the minute details of how they arrived at what they did. So I can tell you that no matter how little sense it makes at the moment, it simply produces a better product than what's grown in rich soil. Maybe that personal preference thing again? hahaha I guess.

The balance thing? The balance I am referring to is the balance of what's needed versus what's not needed surrounding the roots. If there's too much of what's not needed, the pH will likely begin to fluctuate. So instead of thinking in terms of pH, I only think in terms of balancing what's available to the roots, the pH works itself out, falls in line if you keep true to the balance of what's needed versus what's not.

Chasing pH around isn't fun, or - as it turns out - necessary.

And if that were a watering problem it would look differently. That downturned leaf tip thing is MOST often a result of reverse osmosis (the backwards transfer of water/nutes throught the cell walls of the roots). If there's more salt in the soil than in the plant, the water will start flowing out of the plant and into the soil, rather than the correct way, which is into the plant. The result is what you saw with these leaves, downturning - a sign that there's a sucking vacuum happening inside the plant due to the reversing direction of the water in the root zone. Once the balance is obtained, the flow corrects itself and the leaves gain the proper amount of water pressure.

If it were underwatering, it'd be droopy, not undercurled. Don't want to argue, but this is what I know about this plant, and the laws are basic for almost all plants. I learned most of this stuff in four years of botany school (where I won national awards in plant science), later, on a nursery as a cultivation supervisor, and of course now as a cannabis cultivator/writer. And if you want to go to OG and look it up, you might begin to notice that some of the old cultivation wisdom on OG was written by your's truly years ago. You can trust my advice, in other words.

Grow the best you know how. That's what I'm doing :smile: Ya can't go wrong if you're happy with what you've got. cc

 

[B.C.]

reverse osmosis...

reverse osmosis...

I'm glad you brought this up CC. Lets break this down,shall we... In order for reverse osmosis to occur there has to be a lot of salt build up in your soil and when there is alot of salt in your soil the ph goes up,what happens when the ph goes up... it locks out nutes and when that happens you get defs. with defs. you get yellowing leaves in just a day or two. So in other words your plant will tell you long before reverse osmosis sets in, esp. in soil. These plants did NOT do that. Also a true sign of reverse osmosis in a plant is when the leaves curl in from the sides as well as the tips. With that said, a plant that is under watered doesn't have enough water pressure to hold the leave tips up then gravity takes over giveing you that claw look. I learned about reverse osmosis running shallow water culture hydrnce they have reached this point in swc your done......... Hey CC after reading your explanation of balance I got to thinking didn't Soma say the same thing years ago in a thread or mag.article about makeing grow beds ? just wondering.... take care and stay safe... BC

 

[Crazy Composer]

In order for reverse osmosis to occur there has to be a lot of salt build up in your soil and when there is alot of salt in your soil the ph goes up,what happens when the ph goes up... it locks out nutes and when that happens you get defs.

pH goes down, not up with lots of salt, and deficiencies appear differently from one situation to the next. Many times they will start just as you saw in these plants, then progress to look deficient. Other times the deficiency starts and leaves never curl at all.

The symptoms on this plant were as far away from a lack of watering as I've ever seen. Not the issue at all.

Downcurled leaves are due to a vacuum in the plant's vascular system. Vacuums are NOT caused by lack of water, but by reverse osmosis. Reverse osmosis can creep up pretty fast on someone using rich soils and feeding on top of it. I've seen it and fixed enough times, and know this. That's why after the light flush and (ever-so-slight) re-feed, they bounced right back. They got their turgor back, instead of reverse turgor. If the turgor was lost due to a lack of water, they'd look limp, not curled.

Reverse osmosis is definitely possible without signs of deficiencies first popping up. And there does NOT need to be lots of salts in the soil for RO to occur. All it takes is more salt around the roots than in the roots. Whether than be 1500 ppm in the soil and 100ppm in the roots, or 500ppm in the soil and 100ppm in the roots. Although, it's usually a pretty hefty amount of salts that cause this.

If the conditions that caused RO popped up suddenly, there'd be no time for deficiencies to show first.

And no, I didn't take anything I'm saying from Soma, since the only thing I've ever read of his was his female seeds technique, rhodelization. This comes from years of education and experience with dicot plants. Respect to Soma, but I've not learned one thing from him about growing. I learned that white guys can be Rastas, and that he can grow cool dreads, but nothing else.

I've fixed things like this quickly, way too many times, for way too many years to be convinced that this was a simple watering problem.

Let's just call it a fixed issue and move on. :smile:

cc