Help design my medical grow (1st topic - hydro style)

[Albireo]

I am starting up a 2 x 1000 watt 4' x 8' scrog with 400 watt 3' x 4' veg room. The rooms total size is 8' x 9.5' x 10' tall. It will be sheet rocked and insulated. I am limited to 6 growing plants at one time. I plan on 2 mothers, 2 in clone/veg, and 2 flowering (1 plant per 4 x 4 table). I will harvest each light (4x4 scrog) on opposite schedules, every 4-5 weeks. This will allow a 4-5 week veg time, keep me at no more than six plants at a time, and keep harvest weight (at one time) down.

The room will not be sealed to start, but may eventually move there (later topic). We have a short, but warm summer. Summer nights are cool, usually in the high 40's. I plan on burning the lights at night. Winters are cold and heating will need to be addressed. Ventilation will start simple and grow with future harvests. I plan on air cooling the lights and using a carbon filter. I want to grow (lucas style) using organic nutes, such as pbp, but this may or may not happen. Nutes will be a later topic.

I have grown very successfully in the past, but it has been over seven years. I was set on going large tub dwc, but do have some concerns over water temps (i think I can keep temps down sans chiller). I decided to keep a open mind and see what else is out there. Maintenance is not a huge issue, but I do like KISS. My good friend does remote bucket e&f. I like huge root balls! I used to grow 1 plant in a 32 gallon rubber maid, using 20 gallons of nute solution.

Which hydro method would you choose to grow a 1 plant 4 x 4 scrog?

 

[milehighmedical]

You said it yourself... a 32 gallon rubber maid would be a good, cheap way. The only way I've seen it done actually. There's a product out called the "mega-farm" I think and it's just a big 20 gallon bucket w/ drip rings and airstones. Extremely over priced though, wouldn't be hard to build yourself.

 

[grow nerd]

1 plant? Low maintenance? I'd probably end up growing in a big pot of coco.

Or maybe a WaterFarm... if it wasn't such high maintenance especially for a single plant system.

 

[milehighmedical]

A water farm would be too small for this application. I don't think anyone's pulled a pound regularly off a single water farm unit.

A big 10 gallon pot of Coco would definitely do the trick. Maybe even bigger.

 

[KUSHEATER1]

with good veg why not

 

[milehighmedical]

Water farm's are only a couple gallons... not enough root mass I'd imagine. Might be able to pull a half, but a full pound is a lot of plant. I mean, it's possible. But I wouldn't waste my time and money trying it, because I've seen a water farm... and I've seen a one pound tree, and they simply don't match in my mind.

A larger home made bubbler's going to cost the same or less? And possibly even be higher quality.

 

[grow nerd]

milehighmedical, sounds like you've never grown hydro. And obviously never grown in a WaterFarm.

 

[Budley Doright]

I dont like it....

You dont give yourself enough time to veg there is no way you will approach anything like an elbow with 4 or 5 weeks veg....

IMO your problem is those moms...


Bad idea..... better to use those 2 plants to double the time in veg....

cuttings can come from your large plants just before you put them in flower.....

 

[phr3d0m2gr0]

Yeah I think I agree with Burnt Rope. Your gonna need more veg time. I would say Try running three plants flower and three plants veg. When you harvest the three in flower take 6 - 12 cuttings off the three plants in veg. Then throw them into the flower room. From the cuttings you took, take the 3 best once they are rooted and put them in veg. You could really veg the plants out this way and get tons of bud sites using scrog.

As far as the hydro system, I've only every used DWC style. It's the easiest to take care of, cheap to build, and always produced nice buds for me.

-Phr3

 

[Budley Doright]

Yeah I think I agree with Burnt Rope. Your gonna need more veg time. I would say Try running three plants flower and three plants veg. When you harvest the three in flower take 6 - 12 cuttings off the three plants in veg. Then throw them into the flower room. From the cuttings you took, take the 3 best once they are rooted and put them in veg. You could really veg the plants out this way and get tons of bud sites using scrog.

As far as the hydro system, I've only every used DWC style. It's the easiest to take care of, cheap to build, and always produced nice buds for me.

-Phr3

It would be much easier to stay in compliance with the law by flowering only one plant at a time....


Or I would find a place to hide the clones ....in a wall or something until they root......

One advantage of medical is that electric use isnt factored....


Better to do a very long veg than multiple plants....imo...


2 flower..... 4 in veg......

 

[Albireo]

i hear what you guys are saying in clone from the plants in veg, but does that not have problems also? I thought that genetics break down over time (clone, of a clone, of a clone).

Do you really think I do not have enough veg time to fill a 4 x 4 scrog? I have many grows under my belt and I feel I can easily fill a 4' x 4' screen with 4-5 weeks veg. Is this not true? I used fill a 3' x 3' room using lst with no veg. I would put my clones straight into 12/12. I would pull 10-12 zips under a 430 hps in around 60-65 days. I am wrong in thinking that 4-5 weeks veg time is enough to fill a 4' x 4' screen???

(31 days)

(54 days)

My thoughts are to do dwc, in some kind of large tub. I was thinking a custom tub made with 2x frame material and pond liner. I can easily work drains into it and I have all the materials on hand. I was also thinking something like a small stock tank or even back to 32 gallon rubbermaids.

I do have some concerns about keeping temps down during the summer. My thoughts are to do active evaporitive cooling. I live in a dry environment and should be able to pull a 10 degree or so drop (i hope).

I want to keep an open mind and have a friend who uses ebb and flow. I have heard that nute temps are not as important using e&f. Any other advantages? I used to use and have a ton of those clay/ceramic pellits. How are those similar or different from coco?

 

[Budley Doright]

(clone, of a clone, of a clone).



Pure nonsense.....


Think of how a plant grows it matters little on the mom or as a clone....

both will continue to grow.....


On occaision you can get a mutation but they are extremely rare.....

Plus you will likely want to change now and then anyway....


I would agree with e and f.....


I would have to see it.....

I cant imagine filling a screen that fast....

 

[Budley Doright]

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=81877&highlight=scrog

Much of whether you can fill a screen is about genetics....

Based on the pics in this thread few would be able to fill that screen in 4 or 5 weeks.....

 

[Albireo]

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=81877&highlight=scrog

Much of whether you can fill a screen is about genetics....

Based on the pics in this thread few would be able to fill that screen in 4 or 5 weeks.....

umm, those are soil grows.

 

[phr3d0m2gr0]

Yeah it definitely depends on the strain. If you got some pretty stretchy sativa dominant strains the you could probably fill the screen almost full in that time. It also depends on what you consider a "full" screen? Are you trying to use every single bit, or most of it with a open spots?

As far as genetics breaking down, I don't think you'll stick with one strain that long. You'll probably be trying new stuff way before anything happens to the genetics. If you live in an area with a good medical community you'll probably be able to get cuttings from all sorts of people. Of course if you find one strain that's awesome you could always just keep one mom of her if your worried about the change in genetics.

Anyway whatever you do I look forward to a thread, update us on what you do and if you can fill the screen.

 

[Albireo]

You know what? You guys have a point. I am supposed to be going into this with an open mind to learn and get better. I will address plant numbers, moms, and veg time next!

Back to hydro methods, since I will be growing trees no matter what;

Is large DWC superior to E&F or ??? ?

Is the only con to DWC keeping low res temps?

Is a water farm a drip feed?

Growing in a 10 gallon pot of coco - would this be hand watering?

95% of my experience is with large tub DWC using 6" netpots with clay pellets (Hydroton).

 

[grow nerd]

Is large DWC superior to E&F or ??? ?

Depends on how you operate it, I guess. DWC w/o a chiller is almost always a disaster IME. E/F is so much simpler and more forgiving, and I've seen awesome performance on some bucket systems.

Is the only con to DWC keeping low res temps?

No; equipment cost, ease of maintenance, complexity, and single points of failure are some that come to mind.

Is a water farm a drip feed?

I consider it a top-drip / DWC (maybe SWC) hybrid.

Growing in a 10 gallon pot of coco - would this be hand watering?

Yeah, or auto.

95% of my experience is with large tub DWC using 6" netpots with clay pellets (Hydroton).

What's wrong with it? What makes you want to switch?

 

[Albireo]

Depends on how you operate it, I guess. DWC w/o a chiller is almost always a disaster IME. E/F is so much simpler and more forgiving, and I've seen awesome performance on some bucket systems.

I have had water temp problems once with DWC without using a chiller. At that time I switched to evap cooling (a fan blowing in the res) and it handled the temps. If I go DWC, I will start off using the fan and if necessary move to a chller.

No; equipment cost, ease of maintenance, complexity, and single points of failure are some that come to mind.

Good points. Equipment cost (minus chiller) should be cheaper using DWC correct? Rubbermaids are cheap. I have only done one e&f grow myself and it was early on, but dont i need a pump, timer, table/tray?

What's wrong with it? What makes you want to switch?

DWC worked excellent for me. I have not grown in over 7 years. I thought I would explore what else is out there.

If I switch my plans from a preputual cycle I could use one really large home made tub or stock tank(or two large rubbermaids tied together), plumbing a chiller would be easier. I still want to try to keep temps down using a evaportive cooling. My climate is dry (and cold) so it should work fine.

 

[Budley Doright]

I will be watching this thread since my state now offers the ability to become a caretaker for up to 5 patients....12 plants each....

So I have some interest in you doing a great job on your system...

I agree about the chiller.....

Coco would probably be best drain to waste.....

Let me go find a flood and drain thats cheap and cool......


http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=7876&page=4


Also consider the single points of failure.....

In some systems you can easily lose all your plants....

one big adantage in using coco.....

 

[toastfighter2]

If I were in your position, I would look into vegging in a regular dwc systems, and then set up a rdwc(the r stand for recirculating) for flowering. This would allow you to have a controller "bucket", which makes res maintenance all that much easier(4'*4' of plant matter won't exactly be easy to move to get to the res), and it can even be set outside of the grow area where the lights wont warm it up. If that doesn't help keep the water temp down, and a chiller is still a little on the steep side, you could always do the "frozen water bottle shuffle"(freeze bottles of water and toss them in the res, and repeat the process every couple hours-it helps to have a couple bottles to do this with)