MyGreenToe
Member
Heath recommended at least 500 liters per hour per site, but said 1000L per hour would be even better.
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Heaths latest tree grow
- Thread starter heath robinson
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One thing I don't see talked about much is pump gph and psi as mated up with the pvc it will pump through to get maximum flow.
In order to run 250gph/1000lph through 10 units, you would have to have a 2500gph pump AND 1.5" PVC feed pipes. Most hydro water pumps are less than 10psi so pressure is nearly nonexistent with standard Ecoplus pumps being LESS than 1psi and Danner Magdrives being in the 5psi range maximum.
Check out this chart:
http://flexpvc.com/WaterFlowBasedOnPipeSize.shtml
I see most builds call for 1/2" pvc for the feed lines in this sort of setup and is also what I used for my original MPB build. I don't think flow is high enough in 1/2" to maximize the gph called for by Heath and others. If that chart is accurate then 1/2" line is capable of not even 500gph for the entire main feed line at low (hydro pump) pressures. Are you guys sure you're pushing as much water as you think you are?
When my current run is done in a couple weeks Im upgrading the feed lines to 1" main lines and 3/4" inlets. I even considered 1.5" mains with 1" inlets on a 2400gph Magdrive. I still might.
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I run a danner mag drive 1800 gph for 6 plants. The 1/2 in. feed is not pumping so hard that the feed line is maxxed out on pressure. In other words my pump is not being limited by the feed pipe size. IMHO if I switched to a bigger feed pipe my flow would be the same.
Ravi Singh
Member
Nah, I can say with relative certainty that's incorrect.
I was using a 1/6HP utility pump to power my system and using 1/2" poly throughout; when I switched it up to 3/4" tubing throughout, roughly twice as much water was delivered in the same time frame.
Not saying there's anything wrong with your setup or that you need more flow through your buckets, but without a doubt a larger pump [EDIT: meant "diameter tubing", not "pump"] would give you that (more flow).
It's just like air - if I hook my 10" inline up to a few reducers and have it pushing through 4" ducting, it's not gonna move anywhere near the air it could if it had 10" ducting.
D
DHF
I`ve gotta say that I never paid a whole lotta attention to the exchanges per hr , cuz I just used the same size pipe my bigass pump`s outlet fitting was , and dialed down pressure and flow with control valves and bypasses back to rez.....but.....
I`m pretty sure by using said outlet sized pipe insured the "GPH`s" the pumps max output was set for , right ?.......When you dial the pipe size down smaller , It creates more pressure , but definitely not more volume as you spoke of when you increased from 1/2 to 3/4" feed right Ravi ?.....
IGT.....I`m in agreeance about restrictions causin less exchanges and volume per hr , but have no clue bout the physics end of things......
That`s why I gravitated toward feed AND drain pumps to accelerate flow as fast as I could exchange juice as possible back in my krusty bucket days since there was only lil over 1 1/2" of solution traveling through the bottom containers at all times , instead of RDWC with many many more gals of solution running through comparable setups......
School`s in session......Somebody enlighten us in "Laymen`s terms" so this pore `ol fart can understand.....
Peace......DHF......
....
I`m pretty sure by using said outlet sized pipe insured the "GPH`s" the pumps max output was set for , right ?.......When you dial the pipe size down smaller , It creates more pressure , but definitely not more volume as you spoke of when you increased from 1/2 to 3/4" feed right Ravi ?.....
IGT.....I`m in agreeance about restrictions causin less exchanges and volume per hr , but have no clue bout the physics end of things......
That`s why I gravitated toward feed AND drain pumps to accelerate flow as fast as I could exchange juice as possible back in my krusty bucket days since there was only lil over 1 1/2" of solution traveling through the bottom containers at all times , instead of RDWC with many many more gals of solution running through comparable setups......
School`s in session......Somebody enlighten us in "Laymen`s terms" so this pore `ol fart can understand.....
Peace......DHF......
....Ravi Singh
Member
Lol, now you're confusing me bro
Long story short, the less pressure/restrictions (hose size, exhaust size, what have you) there is, the more your pump (inline fan, whatever) can move of water, air, or whatever else.
Blow into a large straw and a small drinking straw and you can easily see the difference - there's more pressure with the smaller straw, but more air moves with the larger straw.
It's a function of the viscosity of the liquid (air) and some other shit, but I'm already above my physics paygrade by just saying the word "viscosity".
But yeah, there's an inverse relationship between pressure and tubing (duct) size..........that's why my current setup has .017" tubing, as using .5" PVC would be a nightmare to maintain 100PSI pressure with (pump would have to work a lot harder).
D
DHF
Ok.....So as not to confuse yas anymore than I am , what I meant was that my pumps had 1.25 and 1.5" outlets , and that`s what size pipe I used for the gph rating the pumps were , but dialed it down with control valves and bypasses so shit didn`t overfill and outrun drainage in krusty buckets with only 1 1/2" of juice in the bottom containers...
but..........I had drain pump assist also , so......
As IGT was talkin bout , I`m not sure bout those exchanges per hr as in optimum for dissolved O2 to roots without a chiller.......
I couldn`t risk it in Hell , so I used 1/2 hp Aqua-Logic drop-in probe type chillers instead of inline so as to not impede flow......
Peace....DHF.....
but..........I had drain pump assist also , so......
As IGT was talkin bout , I`m not sure bout those exchanges per hr as in optimum for dissolved O2 to roots without a chiller.......
I couldn`t risk it in Hell , so I used 1/2 hp Aqua-Logic drop-in probe type chillers instead of inline so as to not impede flow......
Peace....DHF.....
I think it basically boils down to the smaller the feed line, the less water your pump is actually pumping to your units because it can only push so much water through at such low PSI. Now, if you had a higher psi pump then you could push more water but the whole point of my post was that hydro pumps that we use are intentionally very low pressure, but high volume- IF the pipe size is adequate to pump that much gph at that psi. That chart doesn't lie. You can only push thru so much water at a certain pressure through a certain size pipe. Up the pressure or up the pipe size or your pump is working harder and pushing less.
This is probably more important for setups like mine with 10 bins on a single main feed line. I have to feed all 10 equally from a single pump and 1/2" line won't cut it if Im shooting for even 100gph in each tub. Now I kinda wish I hadnt bought the new pvc fittings and 3/4" ebbflow fittings. I very well could go with the 1.5" feed down to 1" inlets. I would then at least be guaranteed the 100gph thru each and likely more.
This is probably more important for setups like mine with 10 bins on a single main feed line. I have to feed all 10 equally from a single pump and 1/2" line won't cut it if Im shooting for even 100gph in each tub. Now I kinda wish I hadnt bought the new pvc fittings and 3/4" ebbflow fittings. I very well could go with the 1.5" feed down to 1" inlets. I would then at least be guaranteed the 100gph thru each and likely more.
D
DHF
Makes perfect sense IGT.......Thanks for that clarification.......
Peace...DHF..........
Peace...DHF......
....budshoteyes
Member
I really like BL's way of draining his buckets or pots. I think a half inch hose or larger from the res to an inch off the bottom of the root bucket would serve perfectly for feed.
It would give the effect of water/DO/nuts rising from the bottom to the top and saturating the roots thoroughly!
In the res I may try the thru hull infuser for DO and perhaps even add a recirculating waterfall.
No matter what I do pumping water flow is going to be experimental.
I was surfing last night and ran into a system of buckets by Grow Maxx. Search it on youtube. I'm using an Ipad and don't know how to copy and paste. It involves aero trees!
It would give the effect of water/DO/nuts rising from the bottom to the top and saturating the roots thoroughly!
In the res I may try the thru hull infuser for DO and perhaps even add a recirculating waterfall.
No matter what I do pumping water flow is going to be experimental.
I was surfing last night and ran into a system of buckets by Grow Maxx. Search it on youtube. I'm using an Ipad and don't know how to copy and paste. It involves aero trees!
Very nice cyat,I'm rockin some lvpk too and I love the f**k out of her.
L
laylow
Cyat how's that big ass plant from a few pages back doing?
ganjasuiteseat
Member
amen
Billy Liar
Member
nice work cyat,
Looking foward to the next run...
Seems like you all got there with understanding pipesizing and pump pressure too... Thing to remember is a pumps flow rate will be measured with no resistance. So everything after the pump will add resistance and limit the flow. Even straight pipe runs add resistence. This is why I use 1.5"pipe and 45deg bends instead of 90's... Its good to use a pump with little head pressure and lots of flow, as these tend to be lower wattage, which means less heat is generated and transfered to the nutrient solution...
Hope all are well.
Peace
BL
Looking foward to the next run...
Seems like you all got there with understanding pipesizing and pump pressure too... Thing to remember is a pumps flow rate will be measured with no resistance. So everything after the pump will add resistance and limit the flow. Even straight pipe runs add resistence. This is why I use 1.5"pipe and 45deg bends instead of 90's... Its good to use a pump with little head pressure and lots of flow, as these tend to be lower wattage, which means less heat is generated and transfered to the nutrient solution...
Hope all are well.
Peace
BL
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