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What's the consensus on Co2 burners, with this type of growing?
What's the consensus on Co2 burners, with this type of growing?
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Heaths latest tree grow
- Thread starter heath robinson
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D
DHF
Heath`s never run CO2 equipment/supplements , but rather major air exchange/extraction swapping out each room`s air twice per minute thereabouts , and using the CO2 inherent in the air we breathe at 450-750 ppm`s constant depending on how polluted the air is nearest the major metropolitan area where you are geographically.....
He`ll also be the first ta tell yas that once you dial every aspect of your setup and can`t squeeze another gram out of a truly monocropped/dialed strain , THEN try CO2 supplements and see if it increases your bottom line....but......you won`t be impressed.....at least from what I`ve seen over the yrs.....most assuredly not the crazy claims by hydro whores/stores about 30-50-even 70% yield increase.........horsefuck....
I`ve heard all these yrs about increased yields and faster finishing times , but I`ve never been sold on adding cost of equipment , upkeep , and maintenance compared to my inline vortex`s with lifetime warranties plugged into thermostats and speed controllers for total lights on/off environmental control with the a/c`s and dehuey`s there for insurance........
Pot will only uptake and use CO2 properly at elevated temps and relative humidity during "lights on" when all other aspects of the room are dialed beforehand ..... IOW....
They`ll only uptake what CO2 they use lights on and shit out what they don`t use lights off.....period .........Heath`s been growin with 6-700 ppm`s of nutrient solution with no CO2 , a/c , or dehuey as long as I`ve known him with major results ........
I live in Hell and hadta supplement a/c and dehueys , but Heathie`s in the UK and has always dialed his environment first and added more air-exchange and "heat" if anything where he is for his controlled environment........
Bare bulb rooms run warmer than air-cooled reflector setups , but the major air exchange has always worked for us........
Take care Bobby S....Holler in pm if I can help.......
Peace....DHF......
....
He`ll also be the first ta tell yas that once you dial every aspect of your setup and can`t squeeze another gram out of a truly monocropped/dialed strain , THEN try CO2 supplements and see if it increases your bottom line....but......you won`t be impressed.....at least from what I`ve seen over the yrs.....most assuredly not the crazy claims by hydro whores/stores about 30-50-even 70% yield increase.........horsefuck....
I`ve heard all these yrs about increased yields and faster finishing times , but I`ve never been sold on adding cost of equipment , upkeep , and maintenance compared to my inline vortex`s with lifetime warranties plugged into thermostats and speed controllers for total lights on/off environmental control with the a/c`s and dehuey`s there for insurance........
Pot will only uptake and use CO2 properly at elevated temps and relative humidity during "lights on" when all other aspects of the room are dialed beforehand ..... IOW....
They`ll only uptake what CO2 they use lights on and shit out what they don`t use lights off.....period .........Heath`s been growin with 6-700 ppm`s of nutrient solution with no CO2 , a/c , or dehuey as long as I`ve known him with major results ........
I live in Hell and hadta supplement a/c and dehueys , but Heathie`s in the UK and has always dialed his environment first and added more air-exchange and "heat" if anything where he is for his controlled environment........
Bare bulb rooms run warmer than air-cooled reflector setups , but the major air exchange has always worked for us........
Take care Bobby S....Holler in pm if I can help.......
Peace....DHF......
....
![]A[Boss](/data/avatars/m/130/130247.jpg?1649695575){kind=avatar}
M
Mr.Hank
Wery beautifull big plants way to go!
So my "whole house" humidifiers only bumped RH up to about 40%. I was definitely hoping for more. Those forced mist humidifiers are just soooo expensive, at least for the start up cost. Yeah I know long term it'll pay off and Ill pick them up next crop when I have some loot to spend. Man those bare bulbs dry a room out fast.
C
Chris1
Hey Heath...glad to see you posting. I got Black Rose as a freebie back in the HG days...I ran it outdoors (was a green pheno). Anyways big fan of your stuff
CareFreeLivin
Member
What an educational thread. Thanks for doing this.
CannabisOrgy
New member
Would this system out perform the lava rock ebb & flow multi-flow method if the same amount of watts were used?
mrscrumdildlyum
New member
heath keep up the great work!
OK next question to tree growers.
What are you doing to keep root rot away? One of the biggest complaints Ive read about big tree RDWC type setups (UC/MPB/buckets) is the ever present root rot. Im about 40 days into flower and Im seeing some brownish roots and some yellowing leaves. Obviously it's the rot. What do you guys do to keep the rot away? Im running 68f water and almost nothing organic other than a spot of Floralicious Plus. What's the secret to rot-free roots in rdwc tree setups?
What are you doing to keep root rot away? One of the biggest complaints Ive read about big tree RDWC type setups (UC/MPB/buckets) is the ever present root rot. Im about 40 days into flower and Im seeing some brownish roots and some yellowing leaves. Obviously it's the rot. What do you guys do to keep the rot away? Im running 68f water and almost nothing organic other than a spot of Floralicious Plus. What's the secret to rot-free roots in rdwc tree setups?
D
DHF
Biggest reason/flaw I`ve seen in the setups , is the rootmass that swells and increases until end of stretch , slows the flow of nutrient solution by roots growin into the flow/drain lines , and all but stops the container exchange of juice recirculating wise that is ........
Not sure how much help the air diffusers are in each bottom container with X amount lbs of roots sittin on em while the air pumps supply hot air to each rootzone.....
Sometimes bottom container temps can vary a few degrees from rez temps IGT , so possibly 71-72 or so degree temps in your bottom containers compared to your rez ?....... maybe not.....somethin ta check though......
My krusty buckets usedta run warm with perfect rez temps till covering each bucket with reflectix while increasing flow and juice exchange which kept heat gain from taking over....
Have heard RDWC called "Recirculating Death Without Cause" since early OG days.......Krusty usedta call it a "life support system" , cuz without enough dissolved oxygen and fast flow , you`re doomed from the get........
So....Not enough flow /container exchange of juice , possible higher bottom container temps than actual rez temps , and lack of enough dissolved oxygen suspended in said slow solution is my view from all those yrs....
Have also heard about additives causing problems in sterile rez`s , but all this comes from the UC crew with all the bells and whistles they claim solves these problems with "living rez`s"........dunno...
Sorry bout yer problems IGT....Krunchbubble swears by lil bleach added , but can`t remember the per gal ml`s....
Good luck Bro......DHF..........
Not sure how much help the air diffusers are in each bottom container with X amount lbs of roots sittin on em while the air pumps supply hot air to each rootzone.....
Sometimes bottom container temps can vary a few degrees from rez temps IGT , so possibly 71-72 or so degree temps in your bottom containers compared to your rez ?....... maybe not.....somethin ta check though......
My krusty buckets usedta run warm with perfect rez temps till covering each bucket with reflectix while increasing flow and juice exchange which kept heat gain from taking over....
Have heard RDWC called "Recirculating Death Without Cause" since early OG days.......Krusty usedta call it a "life support system" , cuz without enough dissolved oxygen and fast flow , you`re doomed from the get........
So....Not enough flow /container exchange of juice , possible higher bottom container temps than actual rez temps , and lack of enough dissolved oxygen suspended in said slow solution is my view from all those yrs....
Have also heard about additives causing problems in sterile rez`s , but all this comes from the UC crew with all the bells and whistles they claim solves these problems with "living rez`s"........dunno...
Sorry bout yer problems IGT....Krunchbubble swears by lil bleach added , but can`t remember the per gal ml`s....
Good luck Bro......DHF......
....
D
DHF
Hey Medi.......I`ve seen countless UC threads at several sites with the roots growing into the pipes impeding flow , and root disease with no apparent reason , as well I`m sure you have too......
Heathie using his 25 gal bottom container would pretty much insure positive flow and recirculation though wouldn`t you agree ?....
I said back in your "Thoughts" thread about if I ever set 1 of these up , I`d put "Tees" inside the bottom containers where accelerated juice flow would blast sideways into and around the container before bein sucked on to the next , instead of blastin straight at the roots and pushing em toward the drain flow for faster clogging.......
I`d also run flow both directions with separate pumps to train rootmasses away from flow and drain holes...
That`s just my take on dialin things Medi.....As far as how many gallons exchange per hr required ?.......Hard ta measure that since once the bottom container`s full of roots , there`s nowhere near what the flow was as roots were initially growing down and swelling till end of stretch impeding flow more and more progressively......
Never usedta read about these problems as much till more indica dominant strains took way longer vegtimes for any type yields that with increased vegtimes came increased rootmass down below chokin down the flow /recirculation......
The more exchanges per hr the better IME Medi..ALL the way through end of cycle........even if it means hookin up bigger pumps as shit slows down.....
I`d do whatever it took to keep the same flow and dissolved oxygen movin through my rootzones , instead of risking total crop failure ....
Peace...DHF.........
Heathie using his 25 gal bottom container would pretty much insure positive flow and recirculation though wouldn`t you agree ?....
I said back in your "Thoughts" thread about if I ever set 1 of these up , I`d put "Tees" inside the bottom containers where accelerated juice flow would blast sideways into and around the container before bein sucked on to the next , instead of blastin straight at the roots and pushing em toward the drain flow for faster clogging.......
I`d also run flow both directions with separate pumps to train rootmasses away from flow and drain holes...
That`s just my take on dialin things Medi.....As far as how many gallons exchange per hr required ?.......Hard ta measure that since once the bottom container`s full of roots , there`s nowhere near what the flow was as roots were initially growing down and swelling till end of stretch impeding flow more and more progressively......
Never usedta read about these problems as much till more indica dominant strains took way longer vegtimes for any type yields that with increased vegtimes came increased rootmass down below chokin down the flow /recirculation......
The more exchanges per hr the better IME Medi..ALL the way through end of cycle........even if it means hookin up bigger pumps as shit slows down.....
I`d do whatever it took to keep the same flow and dissolved oxygen movin through my rootzones , instead of risking total crop failure ....
Peace...DHF.....
....
MyGreenToe
Member
Wisdom from the master...
MyGreenToe
Member
I try not to bash UC since it's the best off the shelf option for non-handy growers that want dwc. However, it's certainly not the equal of a Heath style RDWC at all.
D
DHF
I totally agree MGT......I never intended bashing any setup .......period....But "RDWC" across the board if not paid close attention to detail can give total crop failure out of nowhere , as has been noted many many times with these new setups when all other parameters were being observed......
I`ve seen folks pull their hair out from nothing being wrong.....plenty of dissolved oxygen , plenty of what they thought was ample recirculation , along with rootzone temps supposedly being within safety zones......
What`s causin it ?.....Lack of flow and dissolved O2 suspended in said solution flowing through rootzones at slower rates from what I`ve seen , as well as possible hotter rootzones from air diffusers pumping in warmer air directly underneath said rootmass changing bottom container temps from rez temps......
Thanks for the quote Bro.......I`m totally illiterate with such shit , and have forgotten more than I`ve read from Heathie`s diaries.....
250 gals per hr sounds good ta me though , as long as yas could keep it up and maintain it once the bottom containers are full of rootmass.....
Peace..DHF.........
I`ve seen folks pull their hair out from nothing being wrong.....plenty of dissolved oxygen , plenty of what they thought was ample recirculation , along with rootzone temps supposedly being within safety zones......
What`s causin it ?.....Lack of flow and dissolved O2 suspended in said solution flowing through rootzones at slower rates from what I`ve seen , as well as possible hotter rootzones from air diffusers pumping in warmer air directly underneath said rootmass changing bottom container temps from rez temps......
Thanks for the quote Bro.......I`m totally illiterate with such shit , and have forgotten more than I`ve read from Heathie`s diaries.....
250 gals per hr sounds good ta me though , as long as yas could keep it up and maintain it once the bottom containers are full of rootmass.....
Peace..DHF.....
....
MyGreenToe
Member
I agree it's all about the dissolved oxygen.
A big part of the problem is the misconception that pumping air is the best way to create DO. It's not, and furthermore, as you said, they add a source of heat, further lowering a solution's ability to contain DO.
I ran a thread back at HG that was all about the topic, trying to dissolve the air pump myth, as I think of it.
Does pumping air to increase DO work?
Yes, but not for the reason people tend to think it does. Most air stones do not create small enough bubble size for direct oxygenation. It is rather the rolling effect it has on a standing solution that keeps exposing more surface area to the air that creates DO.
The creation of DO in a solution happens because of atmospheric pressure. So the more surface area of water you can expose to the open air, the more DO you will have in your solution. Just how much DO your solution can hold is largely a factor of temperature, colder solutions being able to hold more DO. The bubbles provide a small amount of DO, but they are doing more good via circulation than any kind of direct oxygenation. Once a rootball wraps completely around your airstones, that circulating effect will be diminished, and so will your DO at the root zone. I think this is one of the biggest causes of slime in DWC.
For all these reasons the waterfall effect tends to be the best way to create maximum DO. And if you happen to be doing it at each plant site, then you can be sure each plant is getting the max DO possible. If you are pumping your solution in above the water line, into a Tee as DHF suggests, there is no way the roots can compromise the creation of DO.
Just some food for thought....
A big part of the problem is the misconception that pumping air is the best way to create DO. It's not, and furthermore, as you said, they add a source of heat, further lowering a solution's ability to contain DO.
I ran a thread back at HG that was all about the topic, trying to dissolve the air pump myth, as I think of it.
Does pumping air to increase DO work?
Yes, but not for the reason people tend to think it does. Most air stones do not create small enough bubble size for direct oxygenation. It is rather the rolling effect it has on a standing solution that keeps exposing more surface area to the air that creates DO.
The creation of DO in a solution happens because of atmospheric pressure. So the more surface area of water you can expose to the open air, the more DO you will have in your solution. Just how much DO your solution can hold is largely a factor of temperature, colder solutions being able to hold more DO. The bubbles provide a small amount of DO, but they are doing more good via circulation than any kind of direct oxygenation. Once a rootball wraps completely around your airstones, that circulating effect will be diminished, and so will your DO at the root zone. I think this is one of the biggest causes of slime in DWC.
For all these reasons the waterfall effect tends to be the best way to create maximum DO. And if you happen to be doing it at each plant site, then you can be sure each plant is getting the max DO possible. If you are pumping your solution in above the water line, into a Tee as DHF suggests, there is no way the roots can compromise the creation of DO.
Just some food for thought....
D
DHF
Went fishin with a buddy of mine many yrs ago , and he had a bait tank with a "thru-hull" bait aerator hooked to his 12 volt battery , and a lightbulb went off........
This thing would virtually use no electricity wired to an a/c adapter that could be plugged into any outlet....
This unit was pumpin out MILLIONS of microscopic bubbles suspended in solution indefinitely for our baitfish to thrive on , not bigass bubbles from diffusers that float to top of juice level and pop/gas off away from the nutrient solution below lowering dissolved oxygen content .......
I hooked mine up with bulkhead fittings , and all juice that was pumped back and forth to my ebb and flow buckets was fully oxygenated with no heat gain comin from inside my rez`s........
Many ways ta skin a mule......DHF.......
This thing would virtually use no electricity wired to an a/c adapter that could be plugged into any outlet....
This unit was pumpin out MILLIONS of microscopic bubbles suspended in solution indefinitely for our baitfish to thrive on , not bigass bubbles from diffusers that float to top of juice level and pop/gas off away from the nutrient solution below lowering dissolved oxygen content .......
I hooked mine up with bulkhead fittings , and all juice that was pumped back and forth to my ebb and flow buckets was fully oxygenated with no heat gain comin from inside my rez`s........
Many ways ta skin a mule......DHF....
...I have a undercurrent system and I couldnt have said it better myself!
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