Silver Bullet
Member
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heat signature question
- Thread starter Silver Bullet
- Start date
G
Guest
dont worry about it, its unconstitutional for them to use flir without a warrant..... just make sure you take care of the odor....... and of course tell no one.
G
Guest
yeh, its easier to just not worry about shit like that..
i mean, unless youre running a giant Op, I doubt they'd see anything credible with < than a few 1000watts, even then.. Ive seen them whirl our neighborhood for years, I DO know theyre the right choppers..and they fly right over/around the vicinity of me and my best friends house(1600k), along with my little 400w grow.. its no sweat
I dont remember in the 1.5 yrs Ive lived here, (or the 5yrs in the other county) anyone being busted in town by anything other than a rat/informant being involved
i mean, unless youre running a giant Op, I doubt they'd see anything credible with < than a few 1000watts, even then.. Ive seen them whirl our neighborhood for years, I DO know theyre the right choppers..and they fly right over/around the vicinity of me and my best friends house(1600k), along with my little 400w grow.. its no sweat
I dont remember in the 1.5 yrs Ive lived here, (or the 5yrs in the other county) anyone being busted in town by anything other than a rat/informant being involved
G
Guest
F.L.I.R. simply displays different temperatures via different shades and colors on a screen. If it's at 100 yards or 1,000 yards, it will still give similar imagery.
It never hurts to be heat-signature conscious, as it's one less thing to worry about. insulation and venting are the keys, and shouldn't 'break the bank' in application.
'Probable cause' and 'reasonable suspicion' are typically attained by adding (this piece of info) to (that piece of info), and so on, until some magistrate or judge thinks that the sum total of info equates to something significant.
The fewer loose ends hanging out, the less there is to worry about.
moose eater
It never hurts to be heat-signature conscious, as it's one less thing to worry about. insulation and venting are the keys, and shouldn't 'break the bank' in application.
'Probable cause' and 'reasonable suspicion' are typically attained by adding (this piece of info) to (that piece of info), and so on, until some magistrate or judge thinks that the sum total of info equates to something significant.
The fewer loose ends hanging out, the less there is to worry about.
moose eater
Silver Bullet
Member
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G
Guest
Moose has touched on alot and is correct. It all depends on alot of things. One being their funding and the amount they spent on their FLIR unit. These units aren't cheap, even the cheap ones. It all depends on what mode they are using, IE "White Hot or Dark Hot, or just plain IR" I've started a thread here and won't go into any details, but just do what moose has stated and you should be fine with a normal setup. Anything large is asking for problems. I get flown over almost every night. Before anyone jumps in and start sling shit. I've got a bunch of old friends that are state police, and local police. They do a nasty trick called "Fishing". Whenever they are flying to a call. The co pilot flips the unit on and hopes to key on a signal. If something keys while in route to call. They mark the location and kick is down to detective. A detective will scout out the location and see if he or she can find enough info to ask a judge for a warrant. Once they find enough info for a warrant. It's over for that person. I know this is illegal, but they aren't playing fair. They do what they want to get a bust and make them look good in their department. That's just how it is. I hope this helps, and i know for a "FACT" they do this in the southern states. I'll be doing a full and professional thread on FLIR and how to protect yourself from these units. I've got a source that is going to buy me a brand new unit and run a few test on some large grows and show people what the signal looks like and how to block them. Good luck and stay safe. You don't want to get busted like me and be in jail or on probation like me. NO, i did not get popped by FLIR.
Take care,
BG
Take care,
BG
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spacecabbage
New member
spacecabbage
spacecabbage
Moose eaters right ! Be concious and tell no one! Hey all Im new here but getting the hang of things . I went over kill on ventalation . 650 cfm for 400 hps 300 cfm taking out that dank smell and 250 cfm bringing in the ac. in a 3+3 space
spacecabbage
Moose eaters right ! Be concious and tell no one! Hey all Im new here but getting the hang of things . I went over kill on ventalation . 650 cfm for 400 hps 300 cfm taking out that dank smell and 250 cfm bringing in the ac. in a 3+3 space
G
Guest
spacecabbage said:
That's a great job on the venting. Now, you want to block the wave length, but if your grow isn't that large. You should be good as long as your not running light at night. Wave length stick out at night. Daytime is easier to camo.
Take care,
BG
G
Guest
In an average, decently-insulated house, a 400 watt lamp shouldn't produce enough heat to be a problem at all. Even twice that much shouldn't be too much concern, depending on the area it's confined to, and that area's proximity to an exterior wall or ceiling..
In a basement with 8' (+/-) earth back-fill around the outside of the walls of the area in question, as well as underneath the slab, to help cool the area, the potential heat signature is that much less of an issue.
But if you notice that you have heat build-up, sufficient to the point that one room is markedly warmer than another, and your exterior wall insulation is either sub-standard or non-existent (as it is in some climates), then you're playing a form of roulette.
If you're ventilating anyway, to deal with odor (presumably you -are-, or it's yet another roll of the dice), then there's little reason not to have that flow of air be involved in a cooling loop of some sort.
One of the most common crimes on the part of police officers is re-writing arrest reports to suit what the court and policies and procedures manuals require, and another is creative explanations for sources of suspicion.
Why take any more chance than you need to?
BTW, GoldDustWomen, I'm twice removed from some folks who fly FLIR over the foot paths in Hawaii, looking for the heat signatures from warm bodies that might be tending outdoor plants.
moose eater
In a basement with 8' (+/-) earth back-fill around the outside of the walls of the area in question, as well as underneath the slab, to help cool the area, the potential heat signature is that much less of an issue.
But if you notice that you have heat build-up, sufficient to the point that one room is markedly warmer than another, and your exterior wall insulation is either sub-standard or non-existent (as it is in some climates), then you're playing a form of roulette.
If you're ventilating anyway, to deal with odor (presumably you -are-, or it's yet another roll of the dice), then there's little reason not to have that flow of air be involved in a cooling loop of some sort.
One of the most common crimes on the part of police officers is re-writing arrest reports to suit what the court and policies and procedures manuals require, and another is creative explanations for sources of suspicion.
Why take any more chance than you need to?
BTW, GoldDustWomen, I'm twice removed from some folks who fly FLIR over the foot paths in Hawaii, looking for the heat signatures from warm bodies that might be tending outdoor plants.
moose eater
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G
Guest
I just re-read your initial post Silver Bullet.
In re. to your second line/question:
>>>You think it'd be more suspicious to turn off the lamps if I heard it overhead?<<<
FLIR doesn't have the capacity to see -through- anything. It simply measures/displays heat signature, or an infra-red 'aura' of sorts, on the outside of a building's walls; it's the transmission of excess heat from inside the building, as represented by shades/colors on the FLIR display screen that potentially causes problems.
Turning the lamps off or on at any given moment wouldn't be apparent to anyone other than a person standing at your electric meter, watching the meter spin, or someone able to actually -see- the lamp itself..
Once excess heat builds up in an area of a structure, sufficient to be evident by virtue of the temperature of the outside walls/sheathing of that structure, turning off lamps isn't going to change that 'aura' on a FLIR display screen one bit. Not at all. It takes time and air movement to get rid of that heat, including the heat that's stored in the exterior wall or ceiling insulation itself, aside from the ambient air temp of a given room.
Hope that's more clear.
If you happen to live in an area where energy efficiency is something that ICBO engineers take into account in designing or rating homes, some of the engineers sometimes have hand-held FLIR units to track thermal deficits/leaks as well.
moose eater
In re. to your second line/question:
>>>You think it'd be more suspicious to turn off the lamps if I heard it overhead?<<<
FLIR doesn't have the capacity to see -through- anything. It simply measures/displays heat signature, or an infra-red 'aura' of sorts, on the outside of a building's walls; it's the transmission of excess heat from inside the building, as represented by shades/colors on the FLIR display screen that potentially causes problems.
Turning the lamps off or on at any given moment wouldn't be apparent to anyone other than a person standing at your electric meter, watching the meter spin, or someone able to actually -see- the lamp itself..
Once excess heat builds up in an area of a structure, sufficient to be evident by virtue of the temperature of the outside walls/sheathing of that structure, turning off lamps isn't going to change that 'aura' on a FLIR display screen one bit. Not at all. It takes time and air movement to get rid of that heat, including the heat that's stored in the exterior wall or ceiling insulation itself, aside from the ambient air temp of a given room.
Hope that's more clear.
If you happen to live in an area where energy efficiency is something that ICBO engineers take into account in designing or rating homes, some of the engineers sometimes have hand-held FLIR units to track thermal deficits/leaks as well.
moose eater
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purple wreck
Member
How many watts can you run with out worring about it? Can you run any at night with out having to worry?
G
Guest
anyone using this Poly-shield for protection?150 bucks for a 100 ft roll of ADF black/white poly doesnt sound bad if it works.Hey GDW I remember talking to you awhile back about this subject and the thread you are making.....cant wait for your results.
G
Guest
most cases they are looking for your venting with there flir.....not through your walls....vent in the sewer if you are really concerned
G
Guest
Purple Wreck wrote:
>>>How many watts can you run with out worring about it? Can you run any at night with out having to worry?<<<
It's not that simple. It's dependent on heat build-up, and that heat being repesented on the outside of the wall/sheathing of the building.
In a super-insulated home with a -tight- vapor barrier, and with good ventilation/cooling, a person might run several thousand watts with virtually nothing to worry about but their utility bill.
In a poorly insulated home, or one with poor ventilation/cooling, running much over that first 400 watts in a confined space might cause notable excess heat readings.
In the Oregon case that went to the SCOTUS that resulted in the (at least for -now-) requirement of a warrant to shoot FLIR, the fellow had a lot of wattage producing heat in his garage (which I would wager heavily was not extremely well insulated, or well vented), and the cops happened to be at a neighbor's home using their equipment when someone pointed out Danny Kylo's/kiilo's/Kilo's (spelling?) home. The cops 'said' that the heat on the outside of his walls was indicative of a growing operation. And, indeed, they discovered a fairly good sized growing operation therein.
This obviously doesn't take into account that many persons have their boiler system and domestic hot water holding tank in their garage, and that many boilers put off a fair amount of heat, etc.
In that case, the government argued that using FLIR was like a cop's use of a flashlight in a case involving plain view doctrine, and pulling over a car at night, using the light to scan the otherwise visible contents of the car through the window.
The SCOTUS decided, somewhat arbitrarily, that many persons were prone to carrying/using flashlights, but that not many were prone to carrying/using FLIR.
Lots of things vent hot; a direct vent boiler through a wall, a vertical boiler stack, an oven or range hood, a bathroom vent during shower time, etc., etc. All of these things naturally put out warm to hot air flow.
The folks with FLIR are typically looking for an area of a home that glows on their screen on the outside of a building that otherwise, in their limited thinking, shouldn't be warmer than the rest of the home. (Again, bearing in mind that where ever in your home your boiler or domestic hot water holding tank exists, it's often going to be warmer than other locations in your home).
Extra insulation and a very good visqueen vapor barrier in an area that puts out more heat than other areas, will (theoretically) ultimately result in that area's signature being buffered by that extra insulation and vapor barrier, thus making it look similar to the other exterior surfaces.
Mind you, a direct vent or other boiler stack routinely venting hot air in a colder climate looks a lot less suspect than such an item in a tropical climate such as northern New Zealand or Hawaii.
In that regard, a formula for safety and success also needs to take into account where a person lives.
moose eater
>>>How many watts can you run with out worring about it? Can you run any at night with out having to worry?<<<
It's not that simple. It's dependent on heat build-up, and that heat being repesented on the outside of the wall/sheathing of the building.
In a super-insulated home with a -tight- vapor barrier, and with good ventilation/cooling, a person might run several thousand watts with virtually nothing to worry about but their utility bill.
In a poorly insulated home, or one with poor ventilation/cooling, running much over that first 400 watts in a confined space might cause notable excess heat readings.
In the Oregon case that went to the SCOTUS that resulted in the (at least for -now-) requirement of a warrant to shoot FLIR, the fellow had a lot of wattage producing heat in his garage (which I would wager heavily was not extremely well insulated, or well vented), and the cops happened to be at a neighbor's home using their equipment when someone pointed out Danny Kylo's/kiilo's/Kilo's (spelling?) home. The cops 'said' that the heat on the outside of his walls was indicative of a growing operation. And, indeed, they discovered a fairly good sized growing operation therein.
This obviously doesn't take into account that many persons have their boiler system and domestic hot water holding tank in their garage, and that many boilers put off a fair amount of heat, etc.
In that case, the government argued that using FLIR was like a cop's use of a flashlight in a case involving plain view doctrine, and pulling over a car at night, using the light to scan the otherwise visible contents of the car through the window.
The SCOTUS decided, somewhat arbitrarily, that many persons were prone to carrying/using flashlights, but that not many were prone to carrying/using FLIR.
Lots of things vent hot; a direct vent boiler through a wall, a vertical boiler stack, an oven or range hood, a bathroom vent during shower time, etc., etc. All of these things naturally put out warm to hot air flow.
The folks with FLIR are typically looking for an area of a home that glows on their screen on the outside of a building that otherwise, in their limited thinking, shouldn't be warmer than the rest of the home. (Again, bearing in mind that where ever in your home your boiler or domestic hot water holding tank exists, it's often going to be warmer than other locations in your home).
Extra insulation and a very good visqueen vapor barrier in an area that puts out more heat than other areas, will (theoretically) ultimately result in that area's signature being buffered by that extra insulation and vapor barrier, thus making it look similar to the other exterior surfaces.
Mind you, a direct vent or other boiler stack routinely venting hot air in a colder climate looks a lot less suspect than such an item in a tropical climate such as northern New Zealand or Hawaii.
In that regard, a formula for safety and success also needs to take into account where a person lives.
moose eater
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purple wreck
Member
ok, thanks moose eater. A closet can get real hot also. I dont think my grow is any hotter than my closet. I guess the closer you are to the windows the more it can be picked up. I guess people with a closet or grow tent are less likely to have any problems? since the would not be near a window? so the FLIR can not see every heat i my house just the ones near the windows and doors, or can the see by the windows better. Sorry i have never found anyone that seem to know alot about it.
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G
Guest
if you had a glass house they could not read you at all.. glass fucks it all up.
G
Guest
different heat signature
G
Guest
Something alot of you are forgetting. They aren't just looking through your walls. Most of the time it's a fly over. It's going to be the heat pattern of your roof top. I'd really like to post some pictures, of different types of heat signatures. From a roof shot you can notice a different in heat. You can tell where the lights are and where the grower is growing. It's just not your walls. You got to remember your roof top. I wish i wasn't on probation right now, because i would just love to post a ton of shit. There is so much about FLIR. It's not just the heat you need to worry about. It's also the wave length of the lights. IE, the signal they put off. Moose is one point and i don't think many here in this thread have much to worry about. Once i get going again. I'll post plenty of pictures and the FLIR unit i will be using in my testing. Lot's to come, just vent your grows. Try not to use to many lights and you should be good.
Take care,
BG
Take care,
BG
