Have you looked at the North Pole lately?

[DiscoBiscuit]

Looks like Antarctica's melting too.

Antarctica's Ice Flow Fully Mapped For The First Time (MAP, VIDEO)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/21/antarctica-ice-flow-map_n_932467.html

 

[igrowone]

Looks like Antarctica's melting too.

Antarctica's Ice Flow Fully Mapped For The First Time (MAP, VIDEO)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/21/antarctica-ice-flow-map_n_932467.html

Antarctica is the scary one, the northern cap could melt, ocean levels probably wouldn't change much(excluding Greenland)
the Antarctic is a very different beast

 

[igrowone]

pleasantly surprised the thread is still kicking(considering the subject)
only about 2 weeks or so of the melt season, and 2-3 updates from the NSIDC
which brings us to the latest update, i'll let it speak for itself
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/ - September 6, 2011
Arctic sea ice near record lows

 

[Sgt.Stedenko]

So now bumping your own thread due to nobody giving a damn for 2 weeks means kicking?

You crazy kids and your crazy dialect.

 

[igrowone]

So now bumping your own thread due to nobody giving a damn for 2 weeks means kicking?

You crazy kids and your crazy dialect.

not a kid, and not bumping
bumping is an empty post to draw responses
by kicking i meant the thread was still alive, similar topics often get the thread closed from the heated arguments that erupt(this thread has been pretty tame)
this post was an update of the state of the northern icecap, which is the point of the thread
my posts will cease at the last update when a review of the season's ice melt is issued

 

[supermanlives]

i do believe my south pole has shrank, altho i havent taken any measurements

 

[ShroomDr]

The way i see it, there are only 3 options when it comes to human produced greenhouse gases.
1. Do nothing, which is basically what is happening now.
2. Shut down all fossil fuel power plants, and (essentially) move society back to the per-industrial revolution
3. Nuclear or some major advancement in Solar.
(4. Cold fusion, but if they invented this, they would probably 'kill it' immediately, as it would ruin the world economy. Ya gotta love capitalism.)

[tangent]
I dont see how an environmentalist could be against nuclear energy. Certainly, nuclear energy is far from perfect, but Generation_IV_reactors are far safer than the primitive type we operate right now. If not for the 'environmentalist' we would be much further along technologically, and would most likely be approaching working fusion power plants, which carry almost none of the problems that go along with the fission power plants.

The nuclear waste + accident potential vs. mountaintop removal mining, pollution, higher radioactivity (yes higher than nuclear), greenhouse gases, etc....

Decapitating West Virgina's mountain tops is cheaper than nuclear research...
[/rant]

 

[igrowone]

I dont see how an environmentalist could be against nuclear energy. Certainly, nuclear energy is far from perfect, but Generation_IV_reactors are far safer than the primitive type we operate right now. If not for the 'environmentalist' we would be much further along technologically, and would most likely be approaching working fusion power plants, which carry almost none of the problems that go along with the fission power plants.

The nuclear waste + accident potential vs. mountaintop removal mining, pollution, higher radioactivity (yes higher than nuclear), greenhouse gases, etc....

Decapitating West Virgina's mountain tops is cheaper than nuclear research...
[/rant]

a kindred spirit, i've been preaching the goodness of the better nuclear reactor tech for a while
but Japan's screw up hasn't helped our cause, too much bad press
when you compare the lives lost to fossil fuel usage and nuclear(that is for civilian power), it's not even close, and that's including Chernobyl and the Japanese tsunami
it is interesting how people perceive risk, and for the most part they're just plain scared of nuclear energy

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

My neighbor runs a lawn service. He used to drive a duely for 25 years (and thought he needed it.) Last year, he bought an '82 Datson p/u. He was only gonna drive it for general transportation to lessen his gas expense. I pointed out the low speed rear end and the heavy duty leaf springs (ok, for a Datson.) I joked he could haul his mowers and stuff if he ditched his ferkin dozer-calibur trailer.

He says he saves an average of $100 per week on truck gas alone.

The American taxpayer subsidized much of the US energy infrastructure. For that we get cheap rates compared to the rest of the world. But with this cheaper rate we aren't as efficient as other countries.

Anybody see the 'bloom box' on 60 minutes? The average American home burns the equivalent of two European homes and as many as 6 Asian homes. The more we burn the more the polar caps melt.

It's estimated that Americans waste as much as 40% of our energy. If we could cut that figure to 20%, we could effectively cut the cost of 20% of our energy needs.

My neighbor saves enough on gas to pay his helpers more. He's hoping they'll stick around instead of him having to train new help all the time.

I'll be selling my house pretty soon. Been thinking about the next floor plan. Energy efficiency ain't cheap so I'm gonna plan the space accordingly. I can get away with 1/3 to 1/2 the electricity I'm using now w/o shaking up my lifestyle. I guess I'm just getting old and frugal. But if 50 cents a day goes in my pocket instead of an envelope, 20 to 25 years of that could help pay for retirement.

Should climate scientists up and say what amounts to, 'just kidding'... I'll still have more money.

 

[mrcreosote]

If my damn kid would turn off every electrical device that he turns on and then leaves the room, you could walk from Seattle to the North Pole on the icepack.

Teenagers are the real cause of AGW.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Get your kid one of these...

Get your kid one of these...

Can't remember where I saw this. If it's already posted here, please forgive. It's really cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0_4qFrxw_4&feature=related

 

[igrowone]

Can't remember where I saw this. If it's already posted here, please forgive. It's really cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0_4qFrxw_4&feature=related

you're right, that is excellent

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Hell, I've got a storage shed with no juice. I could put one of those in the roof and wouldn't have to carry the flashlight. Or I could get off my lazy ass and wire the shed.

 

[igrowone]

useful post, just doing some remodeling on a garage
planning on some warm air solar panels(DIY), but was mulling lighting options for a work area
there are other sun driven lighting setups, but i had forgotten about them

 

[igrowone]

not from the the NSIDC, whose progress i've been updating here
but University of Bremen researchers have called a new record low at the north pole
the NSIDC site shows near record low ice, so not completely at odds
here's the link from cnn: http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/12/arctic-ice-levels-hit-historic-low-researchers-say/?hpt=hp_t2

 

[mpd]

The entire CERN CLOUD experiment kind of blows the global warming scam into the weeds, doesn't it?

 

[igrowone]

The entire CERN CLOUD experiment kind of blows the global warming scam into the weeds, doesn't it?

don't believe i've heard the 2 mentioned together
but this thread is pretty much reaching its end with the melt season just about over
so expound upon your manifesto, any real science mentioned would be good

 

[Phaeton]

I don't just look, I'm halfway there.

All politics are local. The following may not have any bearing on the world at large, but in Alaska it rules.

The permafrost of interior and northern Alaska has been warming for 1500 years with no recent jump in the warming. But there is a Major difference happening lately.

The permafrost reached 32 degrees (0 C) close to 50 years ago in the interior, 33 up north. Science note here: it takes 6 times the energy to go from 32 to 33 than it did to go from 31 to 32.
Solid to liquid takes energy so the temps stick at 32 degrees 6 times longer than the average climb until then.

We are there, the ice is turning into water, not any warmer, still 32 degrees but now it is wet. Liquid allows gasses to perculate through. The ice was a gastight lid holding 10,000 years of accumulated gasses, all the gas since the last ice age. 1300' of frozen vegetation in places, more in some, less in others.
The trapped gasses are methane and carbon dioxide. Locally the sinking land and changing weather has decimated trees and insects for 20 years now. Doing it faster now as deeper ice turns liquid.
Bare patches getting larger. Surface water disappearing. Satellite comparison photo's show 70% loss in 40 years.

Just a local trend, as I said, but I have raised my children as if it will spread and continue. If it doesn't, well, being extremely capable is't going to be a detriment to them.

 

[igrowone]

interesting post Phaeton, hadn't seen the phase change energy of water/ice mentioned
but that is true(taking the energy you posted as accurate), big difference in energy between 32 degree water and 32 degree ice
wild stuff is going on, and this year has been wild
some seem incapable of separating the politics(i.e. Al Gore) and the stuff that is happening
you can watch some time lapsed photos of the northern ice, and if that doesn't get your attention, nothing probably will

 

[sso]

its bit curious.

the poles have melted alot yeah?

but you, looking down at the harbor and some beaches i remember quite intimately as a kid.

the waterlevel is not higher.

not really noticably.

so either the polarcaps never contained that much ice, comparatively to the ocean.

or its freezing up somewhere else or the water going somewhere.

probably the first explanation.dunno

there were some thoughts of the melting ice stopping the great "elevator" of the seas, the stream that keeps it all going.

but that would cool where im at, down severly and its actually hotter than ever, seem to be going into a "hot period".

kinda cool how this opens up the world yeah.