laughingmoon
Active member
I'm in an area of relatively soft water, so it may be that I do need to pick up calmag
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H3ad goes Coco
- Thread starter Grat3fulh3ad
- Start date
dgr
Member
Habeeb,
In the above h3ad recipe, the PPM of Mg and S are transposed. I'm not sure where you are getting your cannastat numbers but they are off from my cannastats and my copy seems to match h3ads numbers.
Here is how to calculate the numbers from the label to arrive at PPM for your solution:
Label on Bloom says there is 1.5% Mg in Bloom and 0.946 liter of bloom weighs 1090 grams. .015 * 1090 = 16.35 grams in 0.946 liter
16.35/0.946 = 17.28 grams of Mg/Liter or 17228 PPM
If we put 9 ml of that into a gallon of water (or 3784 ml water),
17.28 g Mg/liter of bloom * 9 ml/3784 ml = 0.041 g/Liter or 41 PPM.
dgr
Member
Coco Nuts,
Because someone is wrong. Either GH is not accounting for the >1 density of the nutrients or everyone is misusing the cannastats calculator. I believe it to be the former based on the math I did to get the Mg value in my prior post.
Here is what cannastats says if you uncheck the box labeled, "Use Weights for Liquids"
Nitrogen N Total 79.3 0 0 79
Phosphorus P 51.8 0 0 52
Potassium K 92.1 0 0 92
Magnesium Mg 35.7 0 0 36
Sulfur S 23.8 0 0 24
Calcium Ca 79.3 0 0 79
Suspiciously similar to the GH calculator. As the label shows that less than a liter weighs more than a kilogram, we can take that ratio (e.g. Bloom = 1090g/946ml) and multiply it by the GH calculator numbers, we SHOULD come up with the Cannastats numbers.
Hope that makes sense.
Because someone is wrong. Either GH is not accounting for the >1 density of the nutrients or everyone is misusing the cannastats calculator. I believe it to be the former based on the math I did to get the Mg value in my prior post.
Here is what cannastats says if you uncheck the box labeled, "Use Weights for Liquids"
Nitrogen N Total 79.3 0 0 79
Phosphorus P 51.8 0 0 52
Potassium K 92.1 0 0 92
Magnesium Mg 35.7 0 0 36
Sulfur S 23.8 0 0 24
Calcium Ca 79.3 0 0 79
Suspiciously similar to the GH calculator. As the label shows that less than a liter weighs more than a kilogram, we can take that ratio (e.g. Bloom = 1090g/946ml) and multiply it by the GH calculator numbers, we SHOULD come up with the Cannastats numbers.
Hope that makes sense.
thank you for the info, I am horrible at math though.. so you've already lost me..
I am getting numbers off a pint bottle of GH bloom. it says :
net weight: 558g ( 1.22lbs )
473ml ( 1 pint )
so I go type in in cannastats, 558grams ( net weight in grams ) , then 473 ( liquid volume in milliliters ), then 9 ( mixing units per gallon ). go to Mg and type in 1.5 , it comes out 42 Mg again ??
also, another question if I can ask. does head base this off tap or R/O water? as first the series is designed for R/O ( unless you get hardwater version ) , not that that matters as this is some formula made up to satisfy coco media... just wondering.
and interesting GH has never released a coco schedule for the flora series?
also was reading in a canna article, it was saying coco first retains calcium, phosphate, and iron first? I always heard it as cal and mag only?
thanks for any info anyone. I am loving coco over peat though.
dgr
Member
habeeb,
A pint? This, my friend, is a pint. They come in pints? Sorry, LOTR reference.
First, did you read this sentence? "In the above h3ad recipe, the PPM of Mg and S are transposed." H3ad typoed his PPMs. It should read 41 Mg and 27 S. Make sense?
If that isn't the discrepancy that is confusing you, is it the difference between 41 PPM and 42 PPM? If that's the confusion, here's the answer.
The density of your bottle is 1.180 g/ml based on the numbers you provided. From a quart bottle of bloom, 1090grams/946 mL, it is 1.152. From a gallon bottle it is, 4420/3790 1.166g/ml. The cannastats download spreadsheet also has 1.15 as the density. The bolded numbers account for the difference between 41 and 42 PPM.
Allowed labeling discrepancies? Rounding errors at GH? We do know they are math challenged based on their calculator.
IIRC, H3ad used tap water. May have been well water. But, it'd be best to read near the beginning of the thread.
"also was reading in a canna article, it was saying coco first retains calcium, phosphate, and iron first? I always heard it as cal and mag only?"
Hmmm, I don't know. I do know that coco has a high CEC (cation exchange capacity). I do not know what it's AEC is? Maybe someone does. Assuming it needs to be charged to fill the CEC sites, that would mean the + ion nutrients will be absorbed. Potassium, Calcium, Magnesium, Iron, etc. The ones that are the first words in the salt name, e.g. Potassium nitrate, Calcium sulfate, etc.
I think the reality is that people just throw Cal-mag at Ca, Mg and Fe symptoms and get away with it. Look at AN's Revive product ... It's Cal, Mag and Iron -- like the other cal-mags. There we go, as long as we've got Nitrogen, these products should supply what is needed to stop yellowing.
So, it may very well be in the order that you read. However, for 90% of users, who cares? They are going to charge their coco with Cal-mag or treat any yellowing as a Mg deficiency and supply Ca, Mg and Fe all at once.
There are guys on here way more knowledgeable in this than I am. Check out the DIY nutrients thread, The high P myth thread and the low N myth thread.
Best of luck
A pint? This, my friend, is a pint. They come in pints? Sorry, LOTR reference.
First, did you read this sentence? "In the above h3ad recipe, the PPM of Mg and S are transposed." H3ad typoed his PPMs. It should read 41 Mg and 27 S. Make sense?
If that isn't the discrepancy that is confusing you, is it the difference between 41 PPM and 42 PPM? If that's the confusion, here's the answer.
The density of your bottle is 1.180 g/ml based on the numbers you provided. From a quart bottle of bloom, 1090grams/946 mL, it is 1.152. From a gallon bottle it is, 4420/3790 1.166g/ml. The cannastats download spreadsheet also has 1.15 as the density. The bolded numbers account for the difference between 41 and 42 PPM.
Allowed labeling discrepancies? Rounding errors at GH? We do know they are math challenged based on their calculator.
IIRC, H3ad used tap water. May have been well water. But, it'd be best to read near the beginning of the thread.
"also was reading in a canna article, it was saying coco first retains calcium, phosphate, and iron first? I always heard it as cal and mag only?"
Hmmm, I don't know. I do know that coco has a high CEC (cation exchange capacity). I do not know what it's AEC is? Maybe someone does. Assuming it needs to be charged to fill the CEC sites, that would mean the + ion nutrients will be absorbed. Potassium, Calcium, Magnesium, Iron, etc. The ones that are the first words in the salt name, e.g. Potassium nitrate, Calcium sulfate, etc.
I think the reality is that people just throw Cal-mag at Ca, Mg and Fe symptoms and get away with it. Look at AN's Revive product ... It's Cal, Mag and Iron -- like the other cal-mags. There we go, as long as we've got Nitrogen, these products should supply what is needed to stop yellowing.
So, it may very well be in the order that you read. However, for 90% of users, who cares? They are going to charge their coco with Cal-mag or treat any yellowing as a Mg deficiency and supply Ca, Mg and Fe all at once.
There are guys on here way more knowledgeable in this than I am. Check out the DIY nutrients thread, The high P myth thread and the low N myth thread.
Best of luck
My plants look amazing. Only having problems with my feeding schedule 
I feed at every water.
feed feed feed til the flush flush flush
DGR,
hey, thank you man..
I guess I did not know was transposed was, and didn't bother to check out a dictionary.. how do I say, my bad in a better way?
wow, so I've been feeding my plants way to much Mg when I was doing the recipe.. I am back to my floraduo nutes ( problem being to low Mg.. ), with some recipes that Ive made, they somehow grow my plants alot better.. but I am a coco noob so I guess that could account for the lack of understanding / knowledge to get the most from growing in coco.. I will try head's recipe again soon as I always love experimenting.. and have changed my veg plants and mom plants strictly to coco.. in a week will be my real test as my first attempt with coco in flower ( always done peat / organics )
anyways, thanks once again DGR. I appreciate the time helping me..
hey, thank you man..
I guess I did not know was transposed was, and didn't bother to check out a dictionary.. how do I say, my bad in a better way?
wow, so I've been feeding my plants way to much Mg when I was doing the recipe.. I am back to my floraduo nutes ( problem being to low Mg.. ), with some recipes that Ive made, they somehow grow my plants alot better.. but I am a coco noob so I guess that could account for the lack of understanding / knowledge to get the most from growing in coco.. I will try head's recipe again soon as I always love experimenting.. and have changed my veg plants and mom plants strictly to coco.. in a week will be my real test as my first attempt with coco in flower ( always done peat / organics )
anyways, thanks once again DGR. I appreciate the time helping me..
hey H3ad, just a quick ?. i vaguely remember seeing a post somewhere that when using your formula, if you experience any lightening of the new growth there was something you could do to fix it. ive looked all over though threads and my history but cant find what i thought i had read at one time. i just started using your formula 2 weeks ago and im starting to see that my new growth is a very light green. due to low N? i use 6ml micro 9ml bloom 10ml sweet (for the Mg and S) and 5ml bio-root. any ideas?
dgr
Member
fdf,
I would try increasing pH to 5.8, increasing micro and substitute Cal-mag for your mag sulfate. It is my unproven theory that the yellowing seen on fast growing plant tips (e.g. during stretch) is a lack of calcium. I am speaking of the yellowing that goes green as soon as the leaves open up and the yellowing goes upward to the next node. I base this on some information provided by thefatman and spurr regarding the very limited mobility of calcium and the need for root tips to uptake calcium -- more root tips = more uptake. So it stands to reason that you need more calcium when you have less tips. thefatman runs HP aero and has a lot of tips. He commented on the high calcium levels in some formulations and how they must be for media like coco.
Again, just conjecture and it would seem that with the nearly 1:1 ratio of potassium and calcium that the formula is providing plenty of calcium.
I would try increasing pH to 5.8, increasing micro and substitute Cal-mag for your mag sulfate. It is my unproven theory that the yellowing seen on fast growing plant tips (e.g. during stretch) is a lack of calcium. I am speaking of the yellowing that goes green as soon as the leaves open up and the yellowing goes upward to the next node. I base this on some information provided by thefatman and spurr regarding the very limited mobility of calcium and the need for root tips to uptake calcium -- more root tips = more uptake. So it stands to reason that you need more calcium when you have less tips. thefatman runs HP aero and has a lot of tips. He commented on the high calcium levels in some formulations and how they must be for media like coco.
Again, just conjecture and it would seem that with the nearly 1:1 ratio of potassium and calcium that the formula is providing plenty of calcium.
firstgrowgirl
New member
After reading this post, it inspired me to try coco for my Jack Herrar as my medium for my first grow. My boyfriend and I are also going to try it out on our Kushes. I am really excited!
G
Guywithoutajeep
I have questions. If you're growing huge plants (over 2 months veg.) then the formula still stays at 6/9 pretty much all the way through until flush? Will it ever show deficiencies on a beast because the overall EC isn't high enough? Or is it that as long as proper nutrient profile is provided the root mass's size will handle the rest?
I'm trying to relearn everything.
I'm trying to relearn everything.
Lowman
Member
Yes...and the EC will be high enough. With my tap water...it actually is too high sometimes...but coco is forgiving.
