H3ad goes Coco

[TwistedPistil]

It seems everyone gets their own over complicated variant of this simple formula, that astonishingly mostly use calmg.

here's my bastardization of 6/9. It works in everywhere in the world as long as you use RO water.

PROCESS:
pure RO water
First: 1ml/g Pro Tekt potassium silicate
Second: 6ml/g Micro
Third: 9ml/g bloom
Fourth: 4ml/g Fulvex (from botanicare)

BENEFITS and VERSATILITY:
-It has always mixed to 700-750 PPM, or 1.4-1.5 EC at a 500ppm/1EC scale.
-It has also always mixed between the appropriate pH (5.5-5.9), usually 5.7 on the dot.
-Watering down to appropriate EC/PPM is as easy as just adding water.
-Usually, when mixed at 5.7, I can water down go 450-500 ppms, or 1EC, without dipping below 5.5 pH
-If the mix creates too high of a pH (6.0 or above), simply change the formula to 1/2 or 3/4 ml/g Pro Tekt. This will adjust the pH down for the whole mix .
-If the initial mix creates too low of a pH (5.4 or lower), simply add a little more Pro Tekt to the formula.
-Using Pro Tekt with the RO eliminates the need for pH up, as the potassium silicate raises the pH perfectly to the appropriate levels without altering the original nutrients profile much at all. And you get the benefits of silicate, which only needs to be modestly present for all plant cells to capitalize. You don't need 2 or 5 ml/g. Just .5-1ml/g to make it "pH perfect"
-using 4ml/gal fulvex, specifically that product from botanicare, eliminates any needs for calmg (which you shouldn't be using with 6/9 anyway ffs) and Epson salt. No need for those variables. Fulvex lists available water soluble magnesium, so the deficiencies dissappear and never come back. It also helps with uptake of nutrients, and trust me, it uptakes some ions like you wouldn't believe.
-this mix stays rock solid as long as you mix it thoroughly and in the appropriate order. It should last a week, easily, with little to no pH drift, and as lo

In my experience with this mix, mild PK boosting is effective but it is strain dependent. 50 ppm tops.

the mix should hit 700 ppms at 5.7. Give it a shot with your RO and let me know how it works for ya.

 

[CannaRed]

Are you dropping the micro after the first weeks of bloom like h3ad did?
I've been using .5ml PowerSi, and 6-9.
I drop everything except bloom when in full flower.
Yucca extract as surfactant.
HydroGuard for rez

 

[TwistedPistil]

So with RO water, you never should flush with plain water, in my experiences. I guess I should say, with this mix never flush with pure ro IMO.

Once strains were dialed in as far as nitrogen needs I would just cut down the ppms of the bloom only mix each day leading up to chop and holding off at 200-300 ppms, strain dependent.

So say I'm chopping day 63, (some strains just don't like it when you cut micro imo and experience, but most are fine. I settled on this feed for an efficient harvest on cultivars of all sorts, from nitrogen hungry to big feeders)

yes, we are working backwards here\/

when the big leaves yellow, she's done. Adjust your flowering schedule accordingly on the next run, then you're fairly "dialed in" on that strain.

-day 63: 200ppms bloom
-day 62: 200ppms bloom
-day 61: 200ppms just bloom
-day 60: 250 ppms bloom
-day 59: 300ppms bloom
-day 58: 350ppms bloom
-day 57: 400ppms bloom
-day: 56: pro tekt or pH up and 450ppms bloom (full 9ml bloom if i remember right in RO is around 450ppm)
-day 55: silicate, 1ml micro/9ml bloom
-day 54: silicate, 2ml micro/9ml bloom
-day 53: silicate, 3ml micro/9ml bloom
-day 52: silicate, 4ml micro/9ml bloom
-day 51: silicate, 5ml micro/9ml bloom
-day 50: silicate, 6ml micro/9ml bloom
-day 49: silicate, 6ml micro/9ml bloom
-day 48: " " "
-day 47: " " "
-day 46: " " "
-day 45: " " "
-day 44: " " "
-day 42: " " "
-day 41-day 22: silicate, 6ml micro/9ml bloom/fulvex/25-50 max added ppm of pk booster, any brand just avoid the PGRs
-day 21 through full/late veg: silicate/6ml micro/6ml bloom/4ml fulvex

Clones, early veg and most of the cycle works just fine on the "normal" mix of silicate/6/9/fulvex. I started rooted cuttings off at 450ppms. Increased the strength as needed. Just eyeball half your res mic and water down with a ppm pen on hand. It's super super easy.

I have used the base mix of 1silicate/6/9/4fulvex, watered down for younglings, all the way to 900ppm for beefing flowering plants before seeing any downside. I wanted to push it further but my cooling needs would not keep up with the increased ppfd needed to achieve the necessity for enough ppm of co2 to demand that much food (ppm). But you don't need to do any dropping of any micro if you don't want to. I had better experience with the fairly detailed mix I just posted running multiple cultivars in the same room, with not very knowledgeable employees working for me. It's nice to keep it simple for everyone.

when I was testing 6/9 flushing methods when I was the worker bee, I tried non RO (tallboy) water, RO water, dropping micro all together, easing down on micro, and flushing the fuck out of the soil with pH water WAY out of range.

flushing with way out of range pH water created some of the best tasting herb I've ever experimented with. BUT, it comes at a cost IMO. Consistency from one plant to another is even inconsistent. That is, that the sugar leaves will die off rapidly. You strip the plant. Weight goes down. I imagine oils and terps do too, I just enjoyed the taste of it for being SO clean tasting. Cutting micro altogether all at once is strain dependent entirely. Some plants rock right the fuck on. Some others will just queef out.

even skipping pk boosters and just running the "main" silicate/6/9/fulvex and cutting down 50 ppms per day before chop and then staying at 200~ppms until the main water and fan leaves yellow is entirely acceptable. It works great.

Again I landed on the slow decrease of micro followed by the 50ppm per day decrease of bloom. I settled on this after extensive obsession with room environment, vpd, co2 to ppfd ratio, and other factors. I want my hydro to be a steady pH, and to steadily increase and decrease ppms when necessary. I definitely see the taste and smoke benefits of cutting micro. I just employed these strategies for running multiple cultivars and having multiple uneducated employees. But after implementing it, I found the buds to cure and smoke and taste better in the long run. They aren't ever deficient,, and they aren't ever overfed. It burns to a white ash, and all my hashmakers got the best quality slabs from their runs of my product out of 20+ large scale growers materials they were working with.

now if you follow this flush and it's still flush green on the big leaves, then by all means, continue to feed the 200ppms until you are yellowing. They yell you when they're done. If they haven't yellowed yet, in my experiences, you're probably running the strain too short assuming there were no transportation issues and what not. Tons of people do that too, run too short.

sorry for the book response. It's hard to type what can be said much easier.


also, and idk if you're around anymore H3ad, but you are one of my fucking heroes. Hats off to your contributions to cannabis and its people.

I would also recommend anyone who grows in coco, or anyone in general, read through the DJM "coco tree's" thread. Do yourself a favor and filter the comments to "only posts by DJM" to save yourself a ton of bullshit. He was the first applicable room I've seen in relation to vpd, as well as blumats, as well as Dosatrons, as well as so much useful information. And to boot, he started with 6/9, then he tried every nutrient company around and thrived with them cause he is an excellent grower, but then he returned to using 6/9 saying something to the effect that it is the cheapest most consistent way to provide everything the plants need to thrive and anyone having trouble is just having other issues most likely environmental.

so, to many people looking for answers around this thread, I recommend rereading h3ad goes coco, but only look at h3ads posts. Then do the same for djm coco tree's. Everything (generally) you need to know for environment and nutrient necessities is in these threads.

mostly though, please stop adding calmg to the mix and fix your water. If you need RO water, I'll bet my left nut this shit works like a charm.

 

[TwistedPistil]

Simple version drop micro a ml/g each day leading up to "flush". Flush how you please, but keep the RO at 200~ppm bloom until fan leaves Yellow or you time it with the trichomes.

Adjust accordingly on your second run. I.E. longer flush or less flush or pull more micro or earlier or less or whatever to match trichs and/or leaves. You want yellowing leaves at the maturation of trich with a clean medium. That's all. There's no magic number.

also important to remember I was growing with 20 1000w ballasts during these times, high heat (intentional), high humidity (intentional) fairly high co2 (intentional). Always in the appropriate vpd range. Constant feedings through the day and even night when necessary. 7-9 week veg, strain dependent, and usually a 61-63 day flower. 6 harvests a year for 6 years straight. Twenty lemon skunks in 5 gallon pots could use up to 60-90 gallons a day when I had them on blumats. Two plants a light, 7ft ceilings (thanks DJM!). Point is: if this seems like "too short" of a flush for people, than people need to understand how to increase the metabolic rate of their plants. So, just take the rule of thumb with trichs and move backwards through the process until you "dial " your strains.

gooooooooood luck. I really hope this is helpful to anyone who is having difficulty. And canna red, please know my general advice about cal mag or questions was exactly that; general advice for the general public. Not directed at you one bit. Happy to answer any other questions if it would help.

used this mix for years and years and years. 6 harvests a year, every year, ever since shortly after the rezdog and h3ad threads were made. This "schedule" albeit figured out from the end of flower and backwards, can definitely dial in multiple strains at once. It is consistent. Zero deficiencies ever. Gram per watt environment, genetics, and efficient canopy depending.

 

[Agropop]

Hi, here is EU version of new t.aquatica micro&blom... Is this EU micro&bloom the same formula as USA version? Can I use 6/9 or should I use different ratio/formula and not 6/9, is there any difference between eu&usa micro-bloom?

 

[hopla]

Hi, here is EU version of new t.aquatica micro&blom... Is this EU micro&bloom the same formula as USA version? Can I use 6/9 or should I use different ratio/formula and not 6/9, is there any difference between eu&usa micro-bloom?

I use the same bottles in Europe, 6/9 works perfectly fine.
I just add in order: Silica 1,25ml/Gal and around 20 minutes later the Cal-Mag 5ml/gal then the Micro 6ml and Bloom 9ml (and if a boost in magnesium is needed I give them Epsom salt 1 gram/gal).
You need to test your tap water, over 200ppm (or if it contains Calcium above 70 ppm) you must use the Micro Hard Water version.

 

[Kimes]

Was just wondering about the same, thanks to @Agropop and @hopla, my tap water (55ppm) has 15ppm Ca and 1,5ppm Mag, so I think soft water Micro suits me well.. (If you know better, please let me know..)

And many thanks to @Grat3fulh3ad for this informative thread !!

 

[hopla]

Was just wondering about the same, thanks to @Agropop and @hopla, my tap water has 15ppm Ca and 1,5ppm Mag, so I think soft water Micro suits me well.. (If you know better, please let me know..)

And many thanks to @Grat3fulh3ad for this informative thread !!

From my experience, and with around 250-300ppm tap water so Hard Water version for me, the only problems I had was when I tried by mistake to use the soft water version.
The "above 70ppm Calcium=Hard Water version " warning is on GHE's website, but I only measure the total ppm from the tap water (I don't know precisely how much Cal-Mag it has), therefore I think it's more reliable to refer to the total ppm of your tap water.
As I use Leds and coco I believe the 5ml/Gal Cal-Mag is a must have (decreasing it to 3ml/gal after the stretch; some growers totally stop the Cal-Mag after 3-5 weeks of flowering but I only decrease it to 2ml minimum with very satisfying results).

 

[Kimes]

@hopla Is it GHE cal-mag you use? I have this with their new brand name

It says both on this bottle (if using soft water Micro) and the soft water Micro to not use extra calmag, even when using RO water... (which I dont use..)

 

[hopla]

@hopla Is it GHE cal-mag you use? I have this with their new brand name View attachment 18779025
It says both on this bottle (if using soft water Micro) and the soft water Micro to not use extra calmag, even when using RO water... (which I dont use..)

Never used this one in particular but I don't think there's a big difference between brands.
Last time I tried Sensi Cal Mag extra (4-0-0 with extra Nitrogen) and didn't see any difference with my usual Canna Cal Mag.
I can't be of good advice with Soft Water version (having experienced some trouble with it myself), I don't know if you shouldn't use Cal-Mag in that case.
I guess the idea is: Soft Water version may already supplement some Cal-Mag but seeing a lot of problems with Soft Water version gives me the idea that it hasn't all it needs (for coco that is).
I'd stick to Hard Water Micro (+Cal-Mag) and Bloom for the 6/9.

 

[Kimes]

GHE (now T.A) makes a 2 part formula for coco (FloraCoco)

It has values as:

(minimum guaranteed analysis)

Grow: NPK 4-0-5

Total Nitrogen (N)4,2%, Ammonialacal nitrogen 0,2%, Nitrate nitrogen 4,0%, Potassium oxide (K2O) 5,0%, Calcium oxide (CaO) 5,0%, Boron (B), 0,006%, Copper (Cu), chelated EDTA 0,007%, Iron (Fe) chelated 0,1% EDDHA 0,1%, DPTA 0,1%, Manganese (Mn) Chelated EDTA0,05%, Zinc (Zn) chelated EDTA 0,015%

Bloom: NPK 1-6-4

Total Nitrogen (N) 1,0%, Ammoniacal nitrogen 0,6%/Nitrate nitrogen 0,4%, Phosporic anhydride (P2O5 6,0%,), Potassium oxide (K2O), 4,0%, Magnesium oxide (MgO) 3,0%, Sulphuric anhydride (SO3) 5,0%, Boron (B) 0,015%, Copper (Cu) 0,003%, Iron (Fe) chelated 6,0% EDDHA 11%, DPTA 0,012%, Manganese (Mn) chelated EDTA 0,006%, Molybdenium (Mo) 0,0015%, Zinc (Zn) chelated EDTA 0,004%

My question is, how does this formula compare to H3ads formula?

DualPart Coco feeding chart for coco:

 

[Agropop]

I use the same bottles in Europe, 6/9 works perfectly fine.
I just add in order: Silica 1,25ml/Gal and around 20 minutes later the Cal-Mag 5ml/gal then the Micro 6ml and Bloom 9ml (and if a boost in magnesium is needed I give them Epsom salt 1 gram/gal).
You need to test your tap water, over 200ppm (or if it contains Calcium above 70 ppm) you must use the Micro Hard Water version.

jep, but I use soft water micro which has 6%cal, and I use ro water(my tap is 0.6ec ), also using leds, but without calmag supplement (I thought at 6%cal I will not need to add calmag) and plants have brown spots-cal def in veg
I see you are using tap AND calmag, hmm Im thinking of buying Canna`s calmag(2-0-0) or just mix tap and ro to get base water at 0.2-0.3ec
With what ph do you water your plants?

btw, are you from SLO??

 

[hopla]

jep, but I use soft water micro which has 6%cal, and I use ro water(my tap is 0.6ec ), also using leds, but without calmag supplement (I thought at 6%cal I will not need to add calmag) and plants have brown spots-cal def in veg
I see you are using tap AND calmag, hmm Im thinking of buying Canna`s calmag(2-0-0) or just mix tap and ro to get base water at 0.2-0.3ec
With what ph do you water your plants?

btw, are you from SLO??

I'm in Italy.
5.8 in veg (but I read a lot of growers beginning at 5.5) and 6.0-6.2 in flower.
If I do hempy buckets (less hassle than watering by hand) I try to always water at 5.8 (as it usually goes up in the reservoir).
Brown spots I never had with 5ml/gal Cal-Mag and tap water at 250-300ppm (so there should already be some cal-mag in it).
You should be fine adding Cal-Mag, maybe start at 3ml and see what happens?
A good habit is to rinse your coco coir with 7.5ml/gal cal-mag + tap water solution in order to prepare your medium and avoid any deficiencies from the start

How to Prepare and Buffer Coco Coir by DR MJ Coco:​

 

[Agropop]

Hi guys, what ec do you get with the 6/9 formula and RO water? I get 1.1-1.2ec with soft water micro, Isn't this nutrient concentration too weak for led lights?

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Hi guys, what ec do you get with the 6/9 formula and RO water? I get 1.1-1.2ec with soft water micro, Isn't this nutrient concentration too weak for led lights?

Yes. 1.2ec in ro too. I have had good luck around 2.5ec under led then dropping down to 2.1 thru flower. You could try doubling up or 50% more. Its gonna depend on your ppfd and environment.

 

[Agropop]

Yes. 1.2ec in ro too. I have had good luck around 2.5ec under led then dropping down to 2.1 thru flower. You could try doubling up or 50% more. Its gonna depend on your ppfd and environment.

I will try 9/13,4 and see how it goes and if not ok Ill go back to flnova or flora duo/floracoco...I like one part nutrients the most because of practicality.
Should I use calmag with this 9/13,4 ratio, or not ?

Im first time with flora tri part series under leds...

 

[Miraculous Meds]

If your in ro water then 2.5 to 5 ml of cal mag usually helps. I like cali magic better cause it has low N.

 

[IgnazFlötzinger]

Hi buddys I have 1-2 questions

Do you europeans use advanced hydroponics or the cheaper copy from ghe tripart.

And what Silicium you use and fulvic alternative in europe.

Thanks for your time

 

[early4surely]

Thanks to all for this wonderful thread, I have learned so much. Hope you all can help me further improve my grow.

Here is the setup:
LED 600W per 5 x 5
1 gallon pots. 12 pots per 5 x 5
Terra Aquatica Tri-Part (Micro soft water)
Tap water. 0.3 EC. 45 ppm Calcium
Crop steering irrigation, and managed VPD

Here are my questions:
- What should I feed during veg and stretch? If I understand correctly, TwistedPistil (thanks for the write up!) suggests silicate/6/9/fulvex for veg, and silicate/6ml micro/6ml bloom/4ml fulvex for stretch.

- Should I add CalMag? At what dosage? H3ad stated that CalMag should not be added. However, I understand that LED lighting may require more CalMag.

- Should I switch to Hard water Micro? What is the benefit of switching? Perhaps to improve ratio of CalMag in the nutrient solution, when adding CalMag?

- Which brand Silicate to use, and at what dosage? I will not use the Terra Aquatica silicate, as it is in powder form, so would likely block my irrigation system.

- Which other additives are useful? I am using a root booster during first 2 weeks of veg, as well as fulvic acid until end of stretch. Also using yucca root extract.

- At what EC should I feed? The 6/9 formula comes out to EC 1.2 (without CalMag).

Thanks to any and all for any suggestions, I am truly thankful. Happy growing!

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Thanks to all for this wonderful thread, I have learned so much. Hope you all can help me further improve my grow.

Here is the setup:
LED 600W per 5 x 5
1 gallon pots. 12 pots per 5 x 5
Terra Aquatica Tri-Part (Micro soft water)
Tap water. 0.3 EC. 45 ppm Calcium
Crop steering irrigation, and managed VPD

Here are my questions:
- What should I feed during veg and stretch? If I understand correctly, TwistedPistil (thanks for the write up!) suggests silicate/6/9/fulvex for veg, and silicate/6ml micro/6ml bloom/4ml fulvex for stretch.

- Should I add CalMag? At what dosage? H3ad stated that CalMag should not be added. However, I understand that LED lighting may require more CalMag.

- Should I switch to Hard water Micro? What is the benefit of switching? Perhaps to improve ratio of CalMag in the nutrient solution, when adding CalMag?

- Which brand Silicate to use, and at what dosage? I will not use the Terra Aquatica silicate, as it is in powder form, so would likely block my irrigation system.

- Which other additives are useful? I am using a root booster during first 2 weeks of veg, as well as fulvic acid until end of stretch. Also using yucca root extract.

- At what EC should I feed? The 6/9 formula comes out to EC 1.2 (without CalMag).

Thanks to any and all for any suggestions, I am truly thankful. Happy growing!

Keep your ratio but you can up the concentration to 8/12. Or you can add a few ml of cali magic too, if seeing some ca or mg def. That works well for a moderate par of 700 ppf. If you go higher light intensity, you may need to up the concentration again. I like feeding plants under led in coir at 2.5ec to start then tapering down to match your light intensity par compared to ec in 500 ppm scale. So if your running 700 par, start at 2.5ec then taper down .3ec each week until you are around 1.4ec (700 ppm on the 500 ppm scale). I borrowed some of these thoughts from other grow friends like djm.