H202 dilution ratio?

[Scrogerman]

read it & commented on it & believe me ive got rid of an early BA Bloom with H2o2, there was no mistaking it . Brown Snotty Slime that completely envelops roots(Totally), seeming to starve them of O2 they get soo covered in it. me & 2 of my buddys positively ID'd this shit & we have all been growing for over 10 years some 20 years. Res Temps were 70f, No Smell, we used Hygro in an unsterile res an this seemed to Kick the BA bloom off, it didnt eat it or make it go away, just made it worse. The H2o2 seemed to clear it up with attack. In all my years i cant honestly think of anything else it could of been. Has BA got a sister or brother? maybe it was a deritive of Brown Algae, but it was most definately BA. A very light proof situation also, Res's were well covered. So if what i had wasnt BA, what the hell was it?, like i said before we reasearched everything we could find on it & positively ID'd it. I dont know what more to say, imo what we had was a BA bloom & we ridded ourselves of it with H2o2, but like i said we did have to physically remove slime & slimed roots by rubbing gently & spraying with solution, most of which came out in clumps on my partners Res, mine wasnt that bad at all, 7 days it was gone pretty much. Im not so sure just putting h2o2 in ya Res is enough, we had to physically help out! thats a difference!
saying this i have seen other Icer's with a much more persistant form of it, it seems.
Good Luck everybody, n dont get slimed!

I believe a Low PH like 4.8 or below will also kill off a RootRot attack.

 

[Scrogerman]

I will say this, After flicking through the Slime thread, i see Richyrich has finally defeated the Slime Herpes, id follow that guys advise if its still persistant. I know the guys battled the shite for years. If he says that'll do then that'll do it, im happy for the guy. Nothing worse than a fked up Res. It seems that Bene's are the way to go, but like i said after a sterilisation, on that it may be you have to go the Physan route if the h2o2 dont work.

 

[bilbobonger]

Only add the bleach if you have not already added the benies, otherwise you are just wasting them. The ratio is 10ml per gal. I would say that anytime you want to run sterile run bleach. No matter if the BA is in the water or not.

How did the flood go, your water still clear?

Thanks. Haven't given em a flood yet. Still waiting for em to dry out from their first hit. Though I'm not sure whether I should flush out the coco first. That first flood they got was obviously contaminated, given the res sliming up so fast after the flood. I expect as soon as I give em their next hit, whatever funk's in the coco, will just wash back down into the res and cloud it up again.

So far the solution in the res (RO water, GH Maxigrow, and h202) hasn't begun to cloud up, however the pH has gradually risen, so I'm pretty sure it's still there. The test bucket, same solution just with tap water rather than RO has begun to cloud up and it stinks.

H2o2, Oxy+, aka Hydrogen peroxide is a type of bleach & will sterilise everything man. if you want to sterilise just use the OXY+(h2o2)man, no need for anything else & certainly not domestic or commercial bleach's(they may leave a residue). For equipment cleaning etc, it can be used at a much higher rate than when just using with roots. I cant remember the exact amount, but its much stronger, a quick search will clarify.
No RootsExel is not a bene suppliment as far as i know, its a root stim. Hope the Res stays clear for ya man! yeah dont Mix PH up & Down together, it turns Res solution Cloudy straight away, & this could be mistaked for a bacterial bloom or something similar, maybe you have no problem there other than mixing the up & down, which is a No-No as far as i know. Mmm does it cause some sort of precipitation, thats what it looks like to me, really cloudy solution after doing it, all the litrature advises against mixing the two, but im not 100% sure why, i cant remember off the top of my head. i'd throw it & start again personally, but that may be a little harsh, but thats what i'd do. Good luck!

Check out the other benefits of using H2o2, imo a very under rated suppliment:

http://www.growthtechnology.com/mgmt-loxygen.asp

After reading that again for the first time in ages, it honestly makes me wonder why more dont use this stuff, especially good for new or novice growers, as it offers very effective protection against the mistakes often made by such peoples! Some of the Best results ive had ever were with Ionic Nutes, Oxy+, a little Superthrive now & then & Canna PK, Wow was my reaction, i may go back to basics as it yields great & there aint much in Quality difference anyway. Snake-oil everwhere these days, everyone in the industry seems to be on the take or on the fiddle, get real peoples!.

Thanks for the info the on ph up and down. Hadn't heard this one, but yeah, found some more info saying the same thing, though I don't necessarily think it's the cause of the proposed brown algae. I've only had pH up in the current res, but now after it sat, the pH is up to 6.5, so I figure I'll just toss it and start over again. I've gotta get this pH to stop rising, or I'm gonna be dumping a lot of res water.

Yeah, sounds like the h202 makes for a great additive. I like the idea of getting as much oxygen to the roots as possible.

Hydrogen Peroxide = H202
Bleach = sodium hypochlorite, NaClO

Bleach does not disinfect through oxidation.

If H2O2 is cleaning your roots, you don't have brown algae. If hygrozyme is cleaning your roots, you don't have brown algae. If water temps are responsible for the slime on your roots, you don't have brown algae. Brown algae is a last resort diagnosis that comes AFTER you've tried EVERYTHING to cure bacterial or fungal root rot, especially lowering water temp, and the slime is still persistent. Pythium will not survive in water below 72 degrees, brown algae will.

Please read through the entire Sticky on Brown Algae before jumping to more conclusions.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=55259&highlight=h202

Thanks for the info. Great thread so far. Burning out on the whole process of elimination though. Pretty sure this is BA. Did you see the pics I posted of my res? Took em about 24 hours after flooding the table. I compared them to some I saw on that thread, and it looked like the same stuff. I'll attach the pic again.

Still not sure whether I wanna go the route of using bennies, or going sterile w/bleach and h202. Definitely drawn towards the sterile route. Though either way, it seem like a good idea to run Physan through everything first, considering that this shit's really got a chance to get a foothold. I mean it can't hurt right? $10/bottle, I figure what the hell. So the stuff's really hard to rinse out of the equipment? Is it ok to have a little residue left in the mix? I know cannagirl mentioned earlier in this thread that the stuff will kill plants.

Shit. Musta deleted that picture I took of the res the other day. Here's the page I posted it on: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=184293&page=2

 

[bilbobonger]

Got some photos here from a couple of my previous runs that went south. It's the same nutrient def everytime. I've tried a variety of different nutes, strains, soil, coco (both recirculating and drain to waste). Starting to have the same def on my new ones after only one flood.

Pretty well convinced that this has been the BA all along. Does that look plausible from the pics? The ones that actually made it to flower, were vegged elsewhere, but usually showed signs of sickness within about a week of being in my room. The def came on early in veg when working with my own clones.

 

[bilbobonger]

Came across some negative information about Barricade (Potassium Silicate) on the herp thread, in regards to BA. I started using this stuff as a pH up right around the same time I started experiencing problems. Thought I'd throw that out there. Don't know if it applies. Not using it anymore. Been using the GH product on the current run.

 

[bilbobonger]

Yeah, using bennies to keep this stuff in check is sounding better and better. Just wanna make sure I don't end up with a black soup for a res. Been thinking about going back to drain to waste as well. I'd prefer to keep things recirculating if possible, but only if I can get my pH in check.

 

[Scrogerman]

Im not a Coco grower but i believe drain to waste is best with the stuff. In general Hydro if your PH is raising it can usually indicate you need to increase your EC. ie- PH - UP EC - Down your nutes are too lean/weak. PH - Down, EC - UP too mean/Hot. This is the General RoT(rule-of-thumb) for hydro, but i dont believe this tec is the exact same or accurate for coco & readings can be missleading i believe. But im pretty sure it can be used as a guide in coco. Im sure a coco grower will chime in here to clarify! If your PH dives down, you would need to worry, if it goes up, thats not such a bad thing. A Bacterial bloom for example will make PH go Down not UP, but it can also mean your nutes are just too strong & need to be weakened off a little. Seems that if you increase your EC just a little it may help stabilise your PH, but like i said thats general Hydro & im not sure its the same or accurate for coco.
Most Coco growers i see dont seem to worrie too much about it, as long as whats going in is fine. Simply raising your EC may fix your issue there.

Your issues in the pics look Mg realted to me, i see it all the time with coco growers, as coco hogs & sucks up this cation, i see simple EC increasing fixing the probs, &or adding calMag or the like. Im trying to learn coco myself.

 

[bilbobonger]

Ok, just to make sure I've got this right. Low EC causes an increase in pH, and high EC causes a decrease in pH? Bacterial bloom causes pH to drop? But a bacterial bloom is different than brown algae. I've been under the impression that BA causes pH to rise. Do I have this right? Starting to feel like I'm chasing my tail here.

The girls are ready for their second flood, but I'm having a hell of time dialing in the pH. Overshot with the last one and had to toss the mix. Didn't realize bleach was such a strong base. Tryin to get it dialed. Lookin like I'll always have to add in pH up as long as I'm using the RO, bleach or not. Once I get this watering done, I plan on pulling them out of the room for a minute and cleaning everything with bleach and Physan20. I'll definitely up the EC though. Been keeping everything very mild for fear of causing this bloom to pop off again.

Yeah, Mg was my first thoughts as well, though several people on this site have mentioned K. First thing I tried was CalMag (Magical). Seemed to just make things worse. Also tried epsom salt, but also had no luck with it. Tried switching nutrient lines, still had the same problem. Changed over to drain to waste, still had the same problem. Figured it was a coco issue, went back to soil. Low and behold, same thing as before. Obviously a lock out of some sort. So I put six plants aside (growing in soil), and started hand-watering with our drinking water (RO/charcoal filtered plus UV) and the problem was completely gone in about a week (overlooked the fact that I'd bypassed the res ie. the brown algae). So of course I figure that it's gotta be the water. Went and had it tested and it came back high in Ca. So I figure the excess in Ca is locking out K. Thought an RO would take care of the problem (get the Ca out of there), but I'm still having the same problem with the RO. So I figure it's gotta be the BA.

 

[bilbobonger]

Ok, so far so good. Gave em a flood yesterday (finally got the pH dialed). Res hasn't clouded up, and so far the pH is staying pretty solid.

 

[cannagirl]

glad to hear everything is going good. I would assume since you have been able to get rid of it so easy, that it probably didnt come from your water, maybe a dirty air stone or another part of your setup. Keep an eye on the Ph, if it starts dropping and you have not put benies then you have not killed it, if you have put in the benies your ok if your ph is dropping, just adjust it a little high like 6.3 and you'll be good.

 

[bilbobonger]

Thanks for the help cannagirl. No sign of the water clouding, so yeah don't think it's in the water. Like you said, probably a dirty airstone or something. No ph drop, but it does continue to rise even with the increase in ppm. Not sure what this means. Something to do with the coco perhaps?

What are your thoughts on adding a bit of pH down into the mix, considering I initially had to use a good shot of up to hit 5.8? Found some info that agrees with scrogerman in that the two (pH up and down) shouldn't be mixed, but I'm not sure if this matters so much when running a sterile system.

 

[cannagirl]

clean water will naturally try to go back to neutral so the rising Ph is completely normal. As a hydro grower, usually you'll use more Ph down than up which is a good sign.

 

[cannagirl]

here is a picture of our res as promised, as you can see the water is not think, goopey or dark. the buildup on the back wall is the saturated mosquito dunks, and I have a shit ton of benies in this res

 

[Scrogerman]

Came across some negative information about Barricade (Potassium Silicate) on the herp thread, in regards to BA. I started using this stuff as a pH up right around the same time I started experiencing problems. Thought I'd throw that out there. Don't know if it applies. Not using it anymore. Been using the GH product on the current run.

Ahh, i remember this one, Doesnt it cause BA to bloom hard & explode, im pretty sure thats what it was, i use silicate myself & consider it very good stuff, especially its protective qualitys & the k boost too. Dont let that info put you off using Potassuim silicate bro, i rate it highly.

sorry, i been awol! You got it right on EC & PH etc, but i aint heard nothing about BA causing PH to raise, thats a new one on me, what info do you have on this man? I always run my Res's on the weaker side anyway.

Hey CannaG,
Your Res looks clean, whats causing the yellow tint on the water/Res solution CannaG? Is that an IWS or RDWC rig your running there? sorry if i missed you mentioning it!

 

[Scrogerman]

Ok, just to make sure I've got this right. Low EC causes an increase in pH, and high EC causes a decrease in pH? Bacterial bloom causes pH to drop? But a bacterial bloom is different than brown algae. I've been under the impression that BA causes pH to rise. Do I have this right? Starting to feel like I'm chasing my tail here.

The girls are ready for their second flood, but I'm having a hell of time dialing in the pH. Overshot with the last one and had to toss the mix. Didn't realize bleach was such a strong base. Tryin to get it dialed. Lookin like I'll always have to add in pH up as long as I'm using the RO, bleach or not. Once I get this watering done, I plan on pulling them out of the room for a minute and cleaning everything with bleach and Physan20. I'll definitely up the EC though. Been keeping everything very mild for fear of causing this bloom to pop off again.

Yeah, Mg was my first thoughts as well, though several people on this site have mentioned K. First thing I tried was CalMag (Magical). Seemed to just make things worse. Also tried epsom salt, but also had no luck with it. Tried switching nutrient lines, still had the same problem. Changed over to drain to waste, still had the same problem. Figured it was a coco issue, went back to soil. Low and behold, same thing as before. Obviously a lock out of some sort. So I put six plants aside (growing in soil), and started hand-watering with our drinking water (RO/charcoal filtered plus UV) and the problem was completely gone in about a week (overlooked the fact that I'd bypassed the res ie. the brown algae). So of course I figure that it's gotta be the water. Went and had it tested and it came back high in Ca. So I figure the excess in Ca is locking out K. Thought an RO would take care of the problem (get the Ca out of there), but I'm still having the same problem with the RO. So I figure it's gotta be the BA.

Sorry i missed the second bit there.
Yeah it could be linked to the BA, Roots are bound to have a hard time taking in what they need through slimed roots, im surprised it aint worse. You are adding the removed Ca & Mg back with the RO before adding ya nutes? yeah im sure you are! just something that sprung to mind! Sounds like your onto it all anyway, it can be a bitch to work things out, sometimes it takes an age. RichyRich is testament to that, how long was he battling BA, Years! Anyway im glad things are looking up for ya man! Good Luck with it!

 

[cannagirl]

Scrogerman, the crap on the back of the res wall is mosquito dunks and the water color is from the nutes and beneies added to the res. we are running 16 bucket rdwc.

 

[Scrogerman]

Oh ok Thanks, yeah i got the bit about the MD's, never had a problem with Res Bugs as of yet. Ahh right the Nutes & Benie's, interesting its quite a tint of yellow in the Pic, looks real clean though. Do you run a chiller in that System? Its quite a few buckets to deal with. How many solution changes per hour? Gotta love the RDWC.! Thanks

Im thinking of adding bene's to my DWC Res for the first time on this Run im about to embark on, just weighing up which way to go.

 

[cannagirl]

...

 

[Scrogerman]

Very Professional set-up. I wish i had half of that, Lovely work Guys! How Big, i see many more than a 16 site RDWC.? Anyway V-Nice indeed!
Oh yeah i see! 16 per system! I get it! sorry!

 

[cannagirl]

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