Guerrilla Soil Amendments

[Bud Green]

Be real careful with those decomposed wood chips!

There are numerous trees from which chips would not be good for your garden...Eastern red cedar is just one of them...

Also, how decomposed are they? When you rub a handful around in your hands, is it totally rotten and decomposed?
Or is the rot just on the outside, and there's still a wood chip inside?

If it doesn't totally crumble to a handful of rot, those chips will steal most of the nitrogen out of your soil.
You know, the nitrogen you want your plants to get...

Just be careful, and be certain of what you're getting...
That said, in the woods surrounding me, there are lots of old stumps of trees cut 30 years ago when this land was selectively logged.
These were mostly oak and some pine, and the stumps have rotted 30 years...
Sometimes you really have to look hard to find them...
But you can dig them up with a shovel and it is loads of just rotten, crumbly gold in each hole....

 

[Buddah Watcha]

I had great success top dressing well developed plants with chicken manure, not too much, but a cup or two and water in worked wonders last year

 

[DuskrayTroubador]

Be real careful with those decomposed wood chips!

There are numerous trees from which chips would not be good for your garden...Eastern red cedar is just one of them...

Also, how decomposed are they? When you rub a handful around in your hands, is it totally rotten and decomposed?
Or is the rot just on the outside, and there's still a chip wood inside?

If it doesn't totally crumble to a handful of rot, those chips will steal most of the nitrogen out of your soil.
You know, the nitrogen you want your plants to get...

Just be careful, and be certain of what you're getting...
That said, in the woods surrounding me, there are lots of old stumps of trees cut 30 years ago when this land was selectively logged.
These were mostly oak and some pine, and the stumps have rotted 30 years...
Sometimes you really have to look hard to find them...
But you can dig them up with a shovel and it is loads of just rotten, crumbly gold in each hole....

At the bottom of the piles they're completely rotted.

They're a hodgepodge of different types of trees, though. If it's totally rotted, will the type of wood still matter?

 

[wvkindbud38]

I tell you chicken shit/cleaning out cages is one of the nastiest smelling things. I used to have lots of chickens and especially if it's raining,cold, wet outside it seems to get that much worse. Id honestly say to hell with that, I never liked using chicken shit to grow weed anyway.

 

[pipeline]

Thanks, pipeline. I'm going to forget about using the chicken shit, then. I'm gonna stick with mushroom compost as my main soil amendment.


...but I also just found out a friend of a friend has giant piles of several-years-decomposed woodchips on their farm. Literal tons of the stuff up for grabs.


So my main soil amendments will be mushroom compost and decomposed woodchips.


As far as starting outside, I'm going to take your suggestion of putting seedling mix in the middle of the holes. My plots are all pretty sunny, the big issue that hit me this past year was that I got a late start -- which meant the surrounding vegetation got too big of a headstart on my plants and kept them too shaded when peak vegging time was upon them.


As long as I start on time, I think my plants will be able to get the jump on the surrounding vegetation enough for their size to secure them the sun they need in late June through July and August.

Chicken manure compost is great top dressing. Its nitrogen rich, and proabably has little phosphorous and potassium. Wood chips decomposed would be a low nutrient compost unless it was mixed with greens. With high carbon to nitrogen ratio (C:N) amendments, nitrogen immobilization occurs where available nitrogen is depleted because the microorganisms are using it to break down all the carbon. Manure is low C:N with high nitrogen. Wood chips would have lots of hummus and organic material though! If the soil is rocky or clay its probably alright, but a little lime will help buffer acidity from the wood compost.

 

[pipeline]

I really like espoma plant tone it has everything you need. Here you go, mix the chicken manure and wood chips/wood chip compost and let that decompose into a good compost mix.


It does smell. Hey Espoma Gardne or Plant Tone has pasturized chicken manure and it doesn't smell near as much. Its dehydrated. Great product.



https://www.espoma.com/product/garden-tone/

 

[DuskrayTroubador]

Chicken manure compost is great top dressing. Its nitrogen rich, and proabably has little phosphorous and potassium. Wood chips decomposed would be a low nutrient compost unless it was mixed with greens. With high carbon to nitrogen ratio (C:N) amendments, nitrogen immobilization occurs where available nitrogen is depleted because the microorganisms are using it to break down all the carbon. Manure is low C:N with high nitrogen. Wood chips would have lots of hummus and organic material though! If the soil is rocky or clay its probably alright, but a little lime will help buffer acidity from the wood compost.

Are you saying that even the fully composted stuff (unrecognizable as wood chips) will still steal nitrogen away from the plants?

My soil is clay with rocks in it, but I always throw a big handful of lime in.

 

[DuskrayTroubador]

I really like espoma plant tone it has everything you need. Here you go, mix the chicken manure and wood chips/wood chip compost and let that decompose into a good compost mix.


It does smell. Hey Espoma Gardne or Plant Tone has pasturized chicken manure and it doesn't smell near as much. Its dehydrated. Great product.



https://www.espoma.com/product/garden-tone/

Says 1lb is only 3 cups, so it might end up running a bit expensive for me (I'm broke as a joke)

Also, will critters and bears smell the animal products in it?

 

[Bud Green]

I believe the species that are bad has to do with natural oils in the tree....

Anyway, read this for giggles and grins: https://www.reformationacres.com/2014/05/5-things-you-should-know-about-wood-chip-mulch.html

 

[DuskrayTroubador]

I believe the species that are bad has to do with natural oils in the tree....

Anyway, read this for giggles and grins: https://www.reformationacres.com/2014/05/5-things-you-should-know-about-wood-chip-mulch.html

Well, fuck. Didn't get much in the way of giggles and grins out of that.

That kind of shits on my idea of using composted wood chips... sounds like it would likely do more harm than good.

I'm gonna just try to find as much free goat shit as I can. Beyond that, I think I'll just be buying lots of mushroom compost.

 

[f-e]

You can't amend something, until you know what's a-broken.

Chicken shit doesn't play nicely with clay.

This thread isn't at all specific to your needs.

Read the round table thread. I also have a thread akin to yours that could be worth looking at. It's a lot more succinct.

In brief, a soil sample costs a handful of dollars. Then you know what your clay is loaded with. And it will be, it's clay. It will also let you see what you need. So you can aim for a balanced soil profile. Carrying in the stuff you need, not stuff that will overload the ground to poisonous levels.

A successful hemp farm might do a full soil test every 5 years, and the other years they can blindly chuck on the stuff hemp plants use, in the quantities it's known to use them. You must start year 1 with soil samples though, or your just pissing in the wind.


Mattocks are noisy, and spades are for digging holes. You will break your back. Buy a fork, and remember the tines are only thin. You're not meant to put your weight on it. A fork can be trodden in, then lent on. Breaking up the ground without having to lift it all up or twat it. I won't take a spade out now, as my follow gorilla's will go straight for it and fuck their backs up in an hour. Leaving me the only one working all day. I don't let them near my personal fork either, as within an hour, they have a single tine under a root or rock, with all their weight on it, blaming the tool for bending. Turning over 10" of ground is girls work. Bravado is truly painful to watch.

A fork will break up the ground nicely, it's what they are for. Clay can be a bitch though. A plastic trowel finishes the job. On your hands and knees you get, and stab the shit out of the lumps like a crazy woman. Forget metal, the clay sticks to it. Plastic is lighter, quieter in your pack, and actually works. Once happy with the grounds consistency, it can be easily stirred with your fork.

My local rainfall means most things I chuck down now, will rain in 8" by May, when I plant out. At that time I will put the high N ferts in. As N doesn't hang about.


If nothing else, get a soil sample done.

When your ready to play with the big boys, get around that round table ( I don't have a seat there myself, it's hard going)

 

[pipeline]

Are you saying that even the fully composted stuff (unrecognizable as wood chips) will still steal nitrogen away from the plants?

My soil is clay with rocks in it, but I always throw a big handful of lime in.

Yeah it will help, but it wouldn't be as good as manure compost for adding nutrients. It has lots of humus though which helps hold nutrients and water for the plants to be able to use. I used hollowed out tree compost for tomatoes last year! They were in the shade so it wasnt fair. It was hard clay and it really needed some compost.

 

[DuskrayTroubador]

You can't amend something, until you know what's a-broken.

Chicken shit doesn't play nicely with clay.

This thread isn't at all specific to your needs.

Read the round table thread. I also have a thread akin to yours that could be worth looking at. It's a lot more succinct.

In brief, a soil sample costs a handful of dollars. Then you know what your clay is loaded with. And it will be, it's clay. It will also let you see what you need. So you can aim for a balanced soil profile. Carrying in the stuff you need, not stuff that will overload the ground to poisonous levels.

A successful hemp farm might do a full soil test every 5 years, and the other years they can blindly chuck on the stuff hemp plants use, in the quantities it's known to use them. You must start year 1 with soil samples though, or your just pissing in the wind.


Mattocks are noisy, and spades are for digging holes. You will break your back. Buy a fork, and remember the tines are only thin. You're not meant to put your weight on it. A fork can be trodden in, then lent on. Breaking up the ground without having to lift it all up or twat it. I won't take a spade out now, as my follow gorilla's will go straight for it and fuck their backs up in an hour. Leaving me the only one working all day. I don't let them near my personal fork either, as within an hour, they have a single tine under a root or rock, with all their weight on it, blaming the tool for bending. Turning over 10" of ground is girls work. Bravado is truly painful to watch.

A fork will break up the ground nicely, it's what they are for. Clay can be a bitch though. A plastic trowel finishes the job. On your hands and knees you get, and stab the shit out of the lumps like a crazy woman. Forget metal, the clay sticks to it. Plastic is lighter, quieter in your pack, and actually works. Once happy with the grounds consistency, it can be easily stirred with your fork.

My local rainfall means most things I chuck down now, will rain in 8" by May, when I plant out. At that time I will put the high N ferts in. As N doesn't hang about.


If nothing else, get a soil sample done.

When your ready to play with the big boys, get around that round table ( I don't have a seat there myself, it's hard going)

Got myself a very nice, heavy-duty fork to use for this season and beyond.

I've got too many different plots (and even different soils in the same plot at some) for soil samples to be practical. Especially given that a bunch of different samples would be mailed back to the same address, all for tomatoes. Who has so many different soil compositions at the same address? To me it seems sketchy as fuck.

 

[DuskrayTroubador]

I also managed to get a bunch of pygmy goat manure from a friend. Cleaned out the little pygmy goats' pen.

What I got is bout half bedding and half manure. Stinks to high heaven, too. Lots of urine in it.

Because of the bedding, I'm worried about it stealing nitrogen from the soil. Is that a legitimate concern? Should I just use this stuff as a topdress instead of mixing it into the hole?

 

[pipeline]

It needs to be composted before it can be safely used on your crop.


It would be perfectly normal to send in several samples for soil testing.

 

['Boogieman']

I always have huge healthy plants every year and never once tested my soil. For backyard growing sure, for guerilla fuck no. I add about a cubic ft of soil to my holes every year (wormcastings and peat) amended with kelp, alfalfa, and all the other good shit. Some people have 50+ holes, at 20$ a test that is $1000 I don't have.

 

[40degsouth]

Hey everyone,
I've grown in both sand and clay, the challenges they bring are varied and many.
Clay's a bit more tricky to master and the single most important thing to know is.....exactly what type of clay you're dealing with, they're not all the same!!
Yes a soil test will inform you of this and also what minerals are in it and at what percentages; the company may also recommend what to add to your "sample" to bring it into balance but soils work in horizons, so what's in the top is different to the bottom sample!!
When I'm starting with "virgin" clay l do an aggregate stability test, costs me nothing and gives me an educated guess as to what that clay/soil contains and which amendments it will actually take without putting it out of balance straight up.
For example adding magnesium to heavy clay soil will make it clump even harder and it probably contains a significant amount of magnesium already!!
The whole ethos of the gorilla grower is to work smarter not harder for maximum return. Prepare your spots a year or two in advance. If you're lucky enough to have animals to dig up your patch for you, use them.
Potatoes will break up heavy clay soil, they need no water and will rot back into the ground. Followed with a crop of globe turnips, in winter, you've got an easy starting point next spring. If you can't grow these grow a deep taprooted thistle, that needs no water, no fertilising and can be chopped down before it flowers, or after, as in the case of artichokes!!
Brickworks would turn raw clay and leave it over winter and it would naturally crumble with expansion and contraction with freezing.
A broad fork is the gardener's friend for clay soils.
Clays have huge surface areas for holding nutrients and are negatively charged. From memory one gram of bentonite has a surface area as big as a tennis court. They also have high sillica values.
The carbon molecule has an even bigger surface area, i.e. charcoal for holding nutritents and microbial town houses.
A PH test, in my opinion, is a necessity and a good soil runs at 6.5. There's absolutely no point, other than querosity and experimentation, of taking it before your amendments have had a chance to settle because the PH will change and will also change throughout the season depending on temperature and the imputs that have and are, going in.
As for my go to amendments,
No:1 water crystals, 1kg per hole every year.
2 gypsum
3 blood and bone
4 soft rock phosphate
5 seed meal
6 various, dried, manures
7 activated charcoal
8 sulphate of potash
9 epsom salts
Check out "Schrews" and his "native soil plot" for 2017/18 its excellent.