Growroom Electricity and Wiring

[rives]

Unless those contactors have the line-side wiring tucked back where it can't be seen, it looks like the builder may have forgotten to jumper the power from the ballasts from one contactor to the other. It's hard to tell what the hell is going on but it appears that he is only switching one leg of the power to the lamps since the neutrals are all spliced together on the left side, which would give you the goofy voltage readings when the lamps aren't working.

Is that unit installed upside down, with the ballasts feeding into the bottom of the contactors, and is that supposed to be a 6-ballast flip? If yes to both of those, there should be jumpers between the 1(L1)-1(L1), 3(L2)-3(L2), & 5(L3)-5(L3) terminals on each pair of contactors so that the ballasts will feed both sides.

 

[creeper327]

Did you see these pics??? https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=5809909&postcount=4

Ya I dunno the flipper is from DXHYDRO.. the ballast cords are on the bottom and the lamp cords on top..it is a 6 ballast flip box

Thanks for response

 

[rives]

Yes I saw them. I think that the problem is what I said in post #1441 - I think that the jumpers are missing. Some pictures from a lower angle showing the connections across the bottom of contactors would help.

*edit* Going by the designations on the contactors, it appears that neither K2-A nor K3-A have ballast power going to them.

 

[creeper327]

Yes I saw them. I think that the problem is what I said in post #1441 - I think that the jumpers are missing. Some pictures from a lower angle showing the connections across the bottom of contactors would help.

*edit* Going by the designations on the contactors, it appears that neither K2-A nor K3-A have ballast power going to them.

Ok, ill take some more pics later tonight! Thanks!!!

 

[hvac guy]

I looked at the pics and Rives is right, the builder (dxhydro) didn't jumper the two contactors. The contactors are energized independently, he didn't use NO and NC relays.

 

[sunset limited]

had the 125A breaker for one of my subs fail last night around 10:30, i.e. just too late to get to a home depot. one leg wouldn't stay closed so all my 220 and every other 110 circuit was dead. i spent the whole night hand watering and sweating bullets. i was the guy waiting at the door of the home depot at 5:30am.

it's all sorted out now, but it was a real reminder just how beholden we are to the goddamn power companies.

 

[Mr Blah]

Is it possible to put a power box (DIy) in a large metal box with a DIY flip relays? 5 relays, 3 240 plugs, another relay for the light controller

Other words a large all in one box?

 

[rives]

Is it possible to put a power box (DIy) in a large metal box with a DIY flip relays? 5 relays, 3 240 plugs, another relay for the light controller

Other words a large all in one box?

Sure.

 

[Mr Blah]

Cool! thanks Rives
I acquired a large 30"x19"x8" Honeywell box from my father and has all the knock outs for my build.

While I got you right here;
From a 50amp sub panel (Not in the large box mentioned above) I will have a 30amp 10/3 breaker to feed the control panel (in the large box mentioned above) (240v) receptacles. But first I want to have a timer to tell the 240's to come on and off. What kind of relay for the 240 recp? This one;
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...n-Style,_40A_(AD-PR40_Series)/AD-PR40-2C-120A

and this timer;
http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-15-Amp-In-Wall-Smart-Digital-Timer-15071/100685868#.Ug-kh39ujjs

 

[rives]

Good score on the enclosure!

That relay will work fine for switching both the power to the ballasts and the flip circuits feeding the lamps. The timer doesn't look like it has very good reviews from Home Depot users - they also sell a plug-in GE timer called the "SunSmart" that I've had good luck with over the last couple of years. I use several of them, and haven't had any failures yet. They are battery-backed and keep accurate time. http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-15-Am...er-15079/100685884?keyword=15079#.Ug-slH9E3lc

Something to keep in mind with your feeders is that they need to be fused down to the level of the lightest-rated component in the circuit. You mention feeding the circuit with a 30a breaker. This means that your plugs, receptacles, cordsets, etc are all going to need to be rated for 30a. You would be better off splitting the circuit up, using some 15a breakers and similarly rated downstream components.

 

[Mr Blah]

Something to keep in mind with your feeders is that they need to be fused down to the level of the lightest-rated component in the circuit. You mention feeding the circuit with a 30a breaker. This means that your plugs, receptacles, cordsets, etc are all going to need to be rated for 30a. You would be better off splitting the circuit up, using some 15a breakers and similarly rated downstream components.

Well now that I think of it all I need to power 240 is 3 ballast (2) Lumatek dual 600's 5.5a/ea and (1) Lumatek 600 2.74a. So I can just do a 20a dp breaker out of the 50a sub box to feed the relay and shoot out and feed 2 of these 240;
http://www.discount-hydro.com/products/C.A.P.-Universal-X%2dPlug-120{47}240-Receptacle.html
if this one is rated for 20a.

Also like this timer;
have three of them and I know how to use very well.
http://www.discount-hydro.com/products/C.A.P.-Valuline-Weekly-Digital-Timer.html

 

[rives]

Those receptacles are junk, and ignore every code, standard and certification laboratory around. If you are going to use a 20 amp circuit on 240v, use a Nema 6-20 configuration in a commercial or specification grade. Ebay frequently has killer prices on 6-15 & 6-20 gear.

 

[Mr Blah]

Hard to find the ones you are talking about.

On that 20 dp circuit/240 I can use 12/2 right?

 

[rives]

Hard to find the ones you are talking about.

On that 20 dp circuit/240 I can use 12/2 right?

The big box stores don't seem to carry them very frequently, but any electrical supply house should have them.

If all you want is 240v, yes, 12/2 w/ ground will work. If you need 120/240v, you will need to carry the neutral, and 12/3 w/ground would be needed.

 

[Mr Blah]

Ya that's all I will do on that 20a. Just 3 single 20a/240v plugs or 2 duplex. If I can find them at the local electric shop.

So the relay below will do for this application (lighting controller) and for each flip?
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...n-Style,_40A_(AD-PR40_Series)/AD-PR40-2C-120A

Just making sure before I order them on that site....pretty god price.
6 relays it is.

Thanks Rives

 

[rives]

Yes, that relay will work fine for both applications. Good luck with your project.

 

[Mr Blah]

Thanks Rives I'll post some pics when I start and document the build so if anyone else wants to build one like mine they have something to go by.

Thanks again couldn't do this stuff without you.

 

[Mr Blah]

Finally got my relays. Rives for pointing in the right direction.

Got some more questions before I assemble;
Can I hard wire the mogul sockets with 12/2 wire or is that overkill?
Got a distance of 15' for the first room and 25' for the next.
Should both the bulbs on ea relay be the same distance?
Can I hard wire the ballast output to the relays? What size wire?

 

[rives]

12/2 for 25' on a 600w would probably be overkill. I don't have any direct experience with this, but I have read that the increased capacitance of oversized wire between the ballast and lamp can lead to problems. Certainly it is unnecessary for the lamp current at that distance - I would try a smaller wire.

I think that the biggest advantage to balancing the lamp distance for each relay would be to minimize the number of long-distance ignitors that you would need if you were using magnetic ballasts. They are substantially more expensive than standard ignitors, and would give you better utilization. Since you are using electronic ballasts, it's probably not an issue but you might want to check on the maximum recommended distance.

I'm not sure what you mean by "hard wire". It usually refers to a permanent connection rather than, say, using cord & plugs.

You will want to use wire with a 600v insulation value for the ballast output. For instance, SO cord rather than SJ cord. Romex also is rated at 600v.

 

[Mr Blah]

Ya I figured 12/2 would be over kill. What would you choose? 14...16g? I think the wires in the light runs to the store bought ones are 16g.
Ya, hard wire meaning output of the ballast going to the relay. Just instead of the plug ins at the output side of ballast.
I was going to cut the output cord going to the lamp from the ballast and install the relays.
Hope I made sense.
I see it all in my head....just got to do it now.