Growroom Electricity and Wiring

[madpenguin]

If I could run some sort of extension it would be secured to the wall at 8’

It can't run thru doorways. No imminent damage potential what-so-ever. 8' is good but it can still get crushed by a door if you close it (being run thru a door way). Code still says absolutely not (premise wiring) but your going to do what you want anyway I have a feeling. Depends on whether your extending the branch circuit or the lamp cord as to the NEC requirements. I don't think you've made up your mind yet so I can't tell you what would be OK and what is not.

What type of wire would you recommend for this application? 14/3 or 12/3,

Considering the distance, I might even use #12 but #14 should be ok. Overkill never hurts is my take on it. It'll hurt your pocket book but not your wiring system.

the guy at the store was telling me that he wires all 240 ballasts with 14/3 and has never had any issues. Btw he is not an electrician.

That's because romex is rated for 600v. Extension cord is not. Atleast not the "yellow jacket" and canned orange stuff you buy at Lowes. No extension cord, that I'm aware of, will be rated higher than 300v.

Is this what I should get, a wire rated 600V, 14/3? If I have to run the lamp cords individually from the laundry room?

Yes, that sounds fine. Again, I myself might use 12/3. Don't know how your lamp will react to those distances actually. Instead of using romex, I would probably hit my local electrical supply house and splurge for one of these type flexible cords:

ST, STW, SO, SOW, really any cord rated for 600v.

This is what I would really love to be able o pull off (a new 10/3 run). This is my unique scenario.
I have a power source that is a 200 amp panel in the shared attached garage with my neighbour. They use the garage multiple times a day and would surely know that I was doing something weird if they saw me in it. This power supply feeds to the laundry room which is for my exclusive use and is safe from prying eyes.
If I could somehow run from the dryer receptacle to the junction box to the right type of cable to the sub panel to the wall between the two work rooms, it would be a dream come true.

You could use 10/3 romex. Kill the breaker feeding the dryer receptacle, remove the receptacle and then wirenut the two cables together with the large blue wirenuts. Mechanically twist the two conductors together with your linemans pliers before using the wirenut. Again, no cable exposed to possible damage. If you were to go that route, then I would remove the dryer cord from the panel and hard wire the new 10/3 directly to the panel. Much safer.

Is this an absolute requirement? To replace these stranded wires? I could do it from looking at the pictures, but honestly, Im not 100% confident inside of a panel.

Yes. Look at your bottom most ground wire on the bus bar. Not good. The wire squishes out and the terminal screw only makes contact with half the wire if your lucky. Granted, your grounding conductors don't carry current under normal circumstances but if it's happening there, it's more than likely happening at your double pole breaker terminals. Altho, QO breakers aren't as succeptable to that as Siemens and others are.

If there is too much load, I can go with 3k on the sub panel and plug the last 1k into a 120v wall outlet

I thought all your lights were 240v....

BTW, what floor are you working on? 1st floor? Do you have a basement? Is your main panel in the basement? Do you have exposed ceilings in the basement? Is your main panel closer to your grow rooms than the laundry room?

This would still be helpful information. BTW, You have local filename paths relative to your computer in the above post. Looks like you copied the entire html page to reply or something. I can see your real name in there if you care... ;-)

 

[Bodhi Roach]

Hello Madpenguin, thanks again for the super helpful reply

It can't run thru doorways. No imminent damage potential what-so-ever. 8' is good but it can still get crushed by a door if you close it (being run thru a door way). Code still says absolutely not (premise wiring) but your going to do what you want anyway I have a feeling. Depends on whether your extending the branch circuit or the lamp cord as to the NEC requirements. I don't think you've made up your mind yet so I can't tell you what would be OK and what is not.

I think I will take this "extended Branch circuit" advice and follow it to the best that I can, I will go through the drywall above the doorways and place 8" conduit around the
cables whenever it passes through a wall.



Considering the distance, I might even use #12 but #14 should be ok. Overkill never hurts is my take on it. It'll hurt your pocket book but not your wiring system.

That's because romex is rated for 600v. Extension cord is not. Atleast not the "yellow jacket" and canned orange stuff you buy at Lowes. No extension cord, that I'm aware of, will be rated higher than 300v.

After I have run the sub panel to the work room, will that romex be ok to use as lamp cords, seeing that they will be run along the ceiling direct to the lights and now only a short distance, or do you feel he rubber coated 600v 12 or 14 gauge is better as you have replied below?

Yes, that sounds fine. Again, I myself might use 12/3. Don't know how your lamp will react to those distances actually. Instead of using romex, I would probably hit my local electrical supply house and splurge for one of these type flexible cords:

ST, STW, SO, SOW, really any cord rated for 600v.

You could use 10/3 romex. Kill the breaker feeding the dryer receptacle, remove the receptacle and then wirenut the two cables together with the large blue wirenuts. Mechanically twist the two conductors together with your linemans pliers before using the wirenut. Again, no cable exposed to possible damage. If you were to go that route, then I would remove the dryer cord from the panel and hard wire the new 10/3 directly to the panel. Much safer.

Wooot!! this sounds like the plan I'd like to go with. THANKS
if at all possible, is there any more detail that you could provide, so that there is a black and white plan to follow. What are the exact names of the materials I will need, I will be going to either HD or a specialty electrical store, if you can, could you please help me out with a list of supplies so I can go to the store and not raise any suspicion in regards to a DIYer trying to do something over and above his head..

Yes. Look at your bottom most ground wire on the bus bar. Not good. The wire squishes out and the terminal screw only makes contact with half the wire if your lucky. Granted, your grounding conductors don't carry current under normal circumstances but if it's happening there, it's more than likely happening at your double pole breaker terminals. Altho, QO breakers aren't as succeptable to that as Siemens and others are.

I thought all your lights were 240v.... yes they are, but I bought the ballasts that have the 3or 4 wires inside, the 120v, 240v, 277v, 308v Ive switched the V on ballasts before, fairly simple and straight forward, thanks for spotting that though



This would still be helpful information. BTW, You have local filename paths relative to your computer in the above post. Looks like you copied the entire html page to reply or something. I can see your real name in there if you care... ;-) Thanks, I didnt notice that,

Thanks again!!!

 

[madpenguin]

Romex should be fine for your lamp cords if you already have it. Just not very flexible.

So:

10/3 w/ ground to extend the circuit
1/2" ENT (grey electrical conduit) (good idea)
Some cable fasteners for the 10/3 (drywall usage).
Blue wirenuts
Romex or flexible cord for the ballasts.

Nothing you really don't already know.

If it were me, I'd old work the new 10/3 run. From the dryer outlet right thru the back of the panel once it's mounted. Throw a blank plate cover over the dryer outlet and everything will be up to code and look professional. This whole exposed romex idea borders on shoddy and certainly isn't up to code but whatever.

IMO, I wouldn't do it any other way than this:

old work the 10/3 run so none of it is exposed.
STW 16/3 for the lamp cords (14/3 if you want to get anal)
Panel connections remade to eliminate stranded conductors
Both 15A SP pulled and replaced with one 20A DP
2 lights on each circuit @ 240v
Existing receptacles changed out to NEMA 6-20R

 

[Bodhi Roach]

Hi Madpenguin,

I wanted to say thanks for your patience with me, I am a little too unsure when there are options before me.

I do believe I am going to go with installing the panel in the laundry room and running loner lamp cords in order to keep the ballasts outside of the work area.

Is this wire ok for the lamp cords or do you think 600v is better?
12/3, UL, Water resistant, SJ00W, CSA, -40, FT-2, 300v


Do you have any pointers for changing the 120 receptacles out of the panel and replacing them with 240 receptacles? I noticed that the 250v male and female cord ends have a ground and 2 brass screws instead of the gold and silver as on the 120v

Thanks again

 

[Eminem]

Hi Madpenguin,

I wanted to say thanks for your patience with me, I am a little too unsure when there are options before me.

I do believe I am going to go with installing the panel in the laundry room and running loner lamp cords in order to keep the ballasts outside of the work area.

Is this wire ok for the lamp cords or do you think 600v is better?
12/3, UL, Water resistant, SJ00W, CSA, -40, FT-2, 300v


Do you have any pointers for changing the 120 receptacles out of the panel and replacing them with 240 receptacles? I noticed that the 250v male and female cord ends have a ground and 2 brass screws instead of the gold and silver as on the 120v

Thanks again

I am going to chime in on the lamp cords. The specs you are giving, most importanly 300v is NOT going to work between your ballast and hood. I believe the ballast puts out close to 500V, at least on my 1000 watters. Romex will work and I have used it to run 10 hoods.

Secondly, how far are your ballasts going to be? You only have about 15 feet of length, any more and you may experience issues with the ignitor. It took me months to figure out why my bulbs would fail, and finally I moved my ignitors to the hood, and never had another bulb failure

 

[madpenguin]

Is this wire ok for the lamp cords or do you think 600v is better?
12/3, UL, Water resistant, SJ00W, CSA, -40, FT-2, 300v

As I've said previously, 600v rated cord isn't just better, it's mandatory. I specifically didn't list SJ00W in my earlier list as it is rated for 300v. SOOW is the 600v equivalent if your looking for oil resistant cord.

Do you have any pointers for changing the 120 receptacles out of the panel and replacing them with 240 receptacles? I noticed that the 250v male and female cord ends have a ground and 2 brass screws instead of the gold and silver as on the 120v

240v doesn't use a neutral. Black to brass will save your ass. You have 2 hot leads in a 240v circuit.

As for lamp cord length, I was avoiding the specifics earlier because it's hard for me to put in layman terms. In fact, seeing as how I spend most of my time in residential and not commercial/industrial, I'm not up to speed as much as I should be concerning ballasts.

I figured the statement "15' max" was good enough but to elaborate, as Eminem states, the lamp cord length is sized in accordance with the functions of your ignitor, or, the capacitance of the capacitor and the inductance of the secondary winding. The ignitor delivers an ignition pulse which fires the bulb. If your lamp cord length is too long (the distance between the secondary tap and your lamp socket), a heavy ripple current can cause acoustic resonance which can cause the bulb to not fire and/or shorten it's life expectancy.

Moving the ignitor to the hood would resolve this issue.

 

[madpenguin]

Flexible Cords

Flexible Cords

Table 400.4

Whew... That sucked. Now everyone should be able to find out what cord is rated @ what specs. I'll finish off Art. 400....

 

[madpenguin]

Shameless bump

Shameless bump

Seems like there are a lot of repeat electrical questions as of late. For all you do, this bumps for you....

 

[Dr. Conjuror]

madpenguin - Thanks for all you have contributed to this thread. You seem to know your field really well and you have done well to look after the safety of others.

Wow is that type really small on your NEC quote on the flexible cords when it is displayed on this 17" monitor at 1024x768. I will try to find a pdf copy of the NEC guide.

If we have electrical questions that are relevant to this thread, should we ask them here or in a new thread? I do not want to unnecessarily clutter the threads of others, but I also want people to understand the gravity of things in regards to the topic of electricity.

My simplest question first. Are power strips to be treated like extension cords as being only a temporary solution and not up to code for anything of any length of time?

Dr. Conjuror

 

[Sleepy]

wow lots of valuable info!!!

wow lots of valuable info!!!



can this thread be made into a sticky, please?

good info, everybody!!!

 

[Possumtail]

I agree with Sleepy keep up the good work

 

[madpenguin]

Are power strips to be treated like extension cords as being only a temporary solution and not up to code for anything of any length of time?

Dr. Conjuror

I think we all probably use powerstrips in our grow room including myself. It just depends on what you plug into them. Sump pumps, air pumps and very low draw stuff is ok. HID lighting on timers is a good way to start a fire.

Extension cords, powerstrips, the plug in outlet extenders.... They all run a risk of catching fire, depending on the wattage going through them.

 

[madpenguin]

Wow is that type really small on your NEC quote on the flexible cords when it is displayed on this 17" monitor at 1024x768. I will try to find a pdf copy of the NEC guide.

https://www.nfpa.org/catalog/services/Login/login2.asp?npg=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nfpa.org%2Ffreecodes%2Ffree_access_agreement.asp%3Fcookie%255Ftest%3D1%26id%3D7008SB

You need to create an account but it's free.

It uses the RealRead Viewer which requires Java, but who doesn't have Sun's Java Runtime Environment installed?

 

[Dr. Conjuror]

I think we all probably use powerstrips in our grow room including myself. It just depends on what you plug into them. Sump pumps, air pumps and very low draw stuff is ok. HID lighting on timers is a good way to start a fire.

Extension cords, powerstrips, the plug in outlet extenders.... They all run a risk of catching fire, depending on the wattage going through them.

OK that is what I thought. You will have to pardon me, I wrote a paragraph in response to this, but of course MicroShaft screwed up and I lost it all. Let me try to remember what I typed before...

From my understanding, it is best to use a relay via a timer or environmental controller to cut the power to high amperage devices such as an HPS. How does one cycle the ballast before cutting the power to it?

Is there a way to create a very safe power strip?

https://www.nfpa.org/catalog/servic...ccess_agreement.asp?cookie%5Ftest=1&id=7008SB

You need to create an account but it's free.

It uses the RealRead Viewer which requires Java, but who doesn't have Sun's Java Runtime Environment installed?

I do appreciate that.

 

[madpenguin]

Yea, plugging a timer into a powerstrip and then having a small cord run to a relay with your main juice in the relay box is the best way to do stuff like that.

Someone posted a DIY on that not too long ago and it was very well built. Wish I could find that link again...

What do you mean by "cycle the ballast"? Are you flip/floping or something?

 

[PharmaCan]

Is there a way to create a very safe power strip?


I do appreciate that.

Make your own. I used to make these for construction jobs all the time - they're so cool they get stolen a lot so I made them fairly regularly. lol

Anyway, get a double gang box and some good-quality 15 amp receptacles and wire it all up with #12 wire and a good cord end and you have a good quality power strip - not real pretty, but good quality. If you're just going to be running small stuff with low current draw, you can use a three gang box and get six sockets. ...or you can install one switch/receptacle combo and switch the receptacles. Use pigtails coming off the incoming line and neutral to wire your receptacles - then it won't matter what's plugged in where. Be sure to install a cover plate of some kind. Use the shortest amount of cord that you think you can get away with. Don't get unsafe in this pursuit, but, the shorter the cord the less the current drop, so be reasonable.

If you think there might be moisture issues - which there really shouldn't be with electrical stuff, but... - use a waterproof box and fittings for your assembly.

PC

 

[Danknuggler]

I just bought 2 WH40's for 20$ each @ home depot they are changing over to GE so they were on clearance.I want to run 4 1k's per timer.I looked for 240 volt duplexes but couldnt find those, only a 240 v simplex.I take it they dont make a 240 duplex?Can someone show me wiring diagram for 4 240v simplex coming from my WH40 please?Thanks

 

[overbudjet]

Hi MADPENGUIN may i use s.s.r.(solid state relay )instead of using mecanical one for switching HPS.
In 120 volt i know i have to open the hot wire (black)but with 240v 2 hot wire do i need 2 s.s.r. ? S.S.R. will be rated at 40 amp at 240v. with cooler . i will drive 2 1000 watts ballast.

 

[Dr. Conjuror]

Someone posted a DIY on that not too long ago and it was very well built. Wish I could find that link again...

What do you mean by "cycle the ballast"? Are you flip/floping or something?

I thought I read that it was best to turn off the the ballast before removing power to it. But I have read so much lately, I do not recall where I saw. They may have simply been talking about a flip/flop and I am just confused.

I did remember something that I had typed the first time, that I forgot to retype the second time...

Let's say I have a circuit with several receptacles and only receptacles. on a single single breaker. Can a single receptacle on the circuit handle the entire recommended amp load (80% of total rating) or do I just see what gauge wire is connected to the recceptacle to see if it can handle the recommended max load?

Thank you so much for the information and patience. When I look for an electrician, I certainly hope I find someone who takes as much pride in the craftsmanship as you do.


PharmaCan - Hey thanks a lot. I suppose I should match the gauge of the wire in the "power strip" to the gauge of the wiring to the receptacle (at least) or do you recommend something.

Dr. Conjuror

 

[Danknuggler]

I just bought 2 WH40's for 20$ each @ home depot they are changing over to GE so they were on clearance.I want to run 4 1k's per timer.I looked for 240 volt duplexes but couldnt find those, only a 240 v simplex.I take it they dont make a 240 duplex?Can someone show me wiring diagram for 4 240v simplex coming from my WH40 please?Thanks

Any sparkys around?I did see a diagram for wiring 2 240 outlets using the pigtail method but how to do 4?Just add to that pigtail?Please show me!!!!