Growroom Electricity and Wiring

[MrQwerty]

Madpenguin:
I have a question. I see a lot of people recommending the use AFC in the grow. I also see quite a few people advising not to run lights on AFC because the lights will cause them to trip often. I am running a poor quality setup currently, but I am planning on installing 2 dedicated 20A outlets this weekend and I want safety in mind. However I do not live at the grow & if frequent breaker trips will be an issue, I might as well stop the grow :/.. Any help good buddy? thanks

 

[rives]

Unfortunately, Madpenguin hasn't been around for a couple of years. To take a stab at your question - I haven't used an arc-fault breaker yet, but plan on implementing them on my current remodel. I think that they probably suffer from the same bad rep that GFCI's do - they can be a giant pain in the ass, but it usually is a result of being installed improperly.

The biggest source of heartburn that I have seen with GFCI's, and it is probably transferable to AFCI's, is the routing of the neutral circuit. This is particularly true on a retro-fit installation. Any neutral being fed by the protected circuit has to return to the breaker so that proper sensing can take place. It used to be very common for neutrals to be tied together indiscriminately. This wasn't an issue at all because it gave several parallel paths for the neutrals to get back to the panel.

However, in the case of these breakers, this is a recipe for problems. Because the parallel paths allow multiple routes for the neutral current to get to the panel, the breaker cannot properly compare the current being sourced by the hot side of the breaker with the neutral side, and the discrepancy causes it to trip. This nuisance tripping may not occur until some point in the future when a load is plugged into whatever outlet has the improper neutral wiring, leading the user to think that the breaker has a problem.

The gist of this is that if you can insure that all of the outlets being fed by the AFCI are wired so that their neutrals return to it, and have no parallel connection to other neutrals, then using the breaker would be a good idea. If you are just swapping out a breaker and hoping that the circuit is wired appropriately, don't do it. You would be better off with either a GFCI receptacle at the desired location, or one of the GFCI pigtails made for construction site usage.

The following link has some interesting information on AFCI's and their function.


http://www.thecircuitdetective.com/afci_circuit_breakers.htm

 

[Mountain High]

Can you see them Rives?

 

[rives]

Yep, I can see them now. Apparently you don't have any 120v receptacles on the controller, correct? It appears that the only thing the 120v trigger cable feeds is the timer on the door and the control circuitry coming off of it to the contactor. That being the case, you can either run 10/2 and leave the neutral connection in the plug empty, or run 10/3 back to the controller and tape off the neutral at that point.

If you take the 10/3 route, you could actually do away with the trigger cable if that would be handy at some point. The black wire coming from the trigger cable to the red butt connector could be clipped, an in-line fuse put in place (10a would be fine), and connect it to one of the two hot legs coming from the 10/3. The neutral from the trigger cable would be cut and connected to the neutral in the 10/3, and the trigger cable removed.

 

[Mountain High]

Thanks Rives, everything is pretty clear now.

You are correct, there are only 240v receptacles, no 120v receptacles. I have a plenty of 10/3, so I will just use it up for this and tape the end off at the controller.

What would be the reason to remove the trigger cable?

 

[rives]

What would be the reason to remove the trigger cable?

The only reason would be to make the controller more self-contained, freeing up the receptacle that the trigger cable was plugged into if that was ever desirable.

 

[Mountain High]

Oh I see. I think I will keep it separate so I can unplug the MLC and still keep the timer going.

Thanks for all the help Rives.

 

[faulker]

hi guys. i'm wodering if someone can help me wire a gfci outlet correctly for my lights. from my timer i have 3 outlets. do i pigtail 3 seperate gfci's, or just gfci first outlet then from the load feed the next outlet then pigtail to the 3rd?

 

[rives]

hi guys. i'm wodering if someone can help me wire a gfci outlet correctly for my lights. from my timer i have 3 outlets. do i pigtail 3 seperate gfci's, or just gfci first outlet then from the load feed the next outlet then pigtail to the 3rd?

You can either run three separate GFCI receptacles, or you can feed the first GFCI receptacle and use standard receptacles daisy-chained from it. If you do the latter, make sure that you bring the neutral back to the "Load" neutral connection on the GFCI receptacle or it won't function. Use either "commercial" or "specification" grade receptacles with screw connections, not the cheap ones that have spring-type stab connections.

 

[faulker]

ok i think i'll daisy chain them. i dont have a neutral tho, i'm using 2 wire. so both hots to "line" then 2 out from "load" to the next outlet right?

 

[rives]

ok i think i'll daisy chain them. i dont have a neutral tho, i'm using 2 wire. so both hots to "line" then 2 out from "load" to the next outlet right?

These are 240v GFCI receptacles? I've never seen them, and a quick search turned up nothing. If you are trying to use 120v GFCI receptacles on 240v, it won't work and even if it did, it would be a very poor idea. The electronics for a 120v GFCI won't work for 240v, and you will frag the receptacle.

 

[faulker]

yeah my lights run on 240. i thought i could use regular 5-20r gfci recepticles. so there's no way to gfci protect the lights if they're on 240?

 

[rives]

Yes, you can feed them from a 240v GFCI breaker.

 

[still pluggin]

Hello all,

I have plans (very early stages, theoretical, etc) to do a 10K flip flop 12/12(total 20K watts) in a suburban home. I want 10K watts in one 10x12 bedroom, the other 10k watts- operating on a different light cycle- in another 10x12 bedroom.


Can anyone give me a rough (and I'm OK with very rough) ball park of how much it would be to pay an electrician and make this grow safe? I'm assuming 200 amp panels and more, but I'm admittedly clueless when it comes to this stuff.

Thanks for any help here, kind of intimidated to just start calling Joe the electrician and ask him for a quote..

 

[rives]

Hello all,

I have plans (very early stages, theoretical, etc) to do a 10K flip flop 12/12(total 20K watts) in a suburban home. I want 10K watts in one 10x12 bedroom, the other 10k watts- operating on a different light cycle- in another 10x12 bedroom.


Can anyone give me a rough (and I'm OK with very rough) ball park of how much it would be to pay an electrician and make this grow safe? I'm assuming 200 amp panels and more, but I'm admittedly clueless when it comes to this stuff.

Thanks for any help here, kind of intimidated to just start calling Joe the electrician and ask him for a quote..

No one is going to be able to give you any meaningful information over the internet with no knowledge of your existing equipment, the building and the vagueness of your scope of work. You might try detailing things out as much as you can and call two or three different contractors to get an estimate. A possible reason for the remodel would be that you want to set up for doing ceramics, with kilns in one room and mixers in the other - this covers heavy power needs, air-conditioning, etc.

 

[still pluggin]

No one is going to be able to give you any meaningful information over the internet with no knowledge of your existing equipment, the building and the vagueness of your scope of work. You might try detailing things out as much as you can and call two or three different contractors to get an estimate. A possible reason for the remodel would be that you want to set up for doing ceramics, with kilns in one room and mixers in the other - this covers heavy power needs, air-conditioning, etc.

Thank you.

Right now the home is run by 100 amps. Beyond that, I just want two separate rooms capable of running 10K watts, and never at the same time. That's all. Nothing fancy. Bare bulb vert rooms is all.

 

[rives]

Thank you.

Right now the home is run by 100 amps. Beyond that, I just want two separate rooms capable of running 10K watts, and never at the same time. That's all. Nothing fancy. Bare bulb vert rooms is all.

I've never done much residential other than my own and a few friends, my background is industrial. However, you will need at least an upgrade to a 200 amp main, as you thought, and a minimum of a 60 amp sub-panel near the grow area. If you need air conditioning or much beyond the lighting, I'd go with a 100 amp sub. Excluding anything beyond the main and the sub, I would think that you are probably looking at a minimum of $2500 for a service change and the sub being added. Prices could vary wildly based on your location, the ease of wiring, the distances involved, etc, etc, etc......... Pretty much just a wild ass guess on my part, and worth every penny you paid for it!

 

[still pluggin]

Thanks a lot man.

This is becoming more of a problem than I anticipated. It seems I just dont have the balls (or stupidity) to just call well-reviewed Joe the Electrician, and ask him to come inside my home and give me an estimate on what is very obviously my marijuana growing operation. lol.

I guess i'll have to get learning about various hobbies, as you mentioned, that involve lots of electricity so as to give a good cover.


Ahhh, the things we find ourselves spending time learning all in the name of growing flowers.

 

[MrQwerty]

Thank you very much Rives

 

[avant gardener]

Thanks a lot man.

This is becoming more of a problem than I anticipated. It seems I just dont have the balls (or stupidity) to just call well-reviewed Joe the Electrician, and ask him to come inside my home and give me an estimate on what is very obviously my marijuana growing operation. lol.

yo plug-

you start pulling 10,000 kWh per month in a suburban home and the electrician might not be the only one you need to worry about.

just throwing that out there.