Growroom Electricity and Wiring

[Deaner]

Hey MP...

I'm really sorry for not being clear. I don't really know the lingo quite yet.

This is my plan as the best I can put it:
2 x 20amp breakers
2 x 12-2 romex
3 x 4"x4" receptacles
6 x (2) plugs rated for 20 amp.

What I want to do is bring 1 x 12-2 romex run to 2 x 4"x4" with 4 plugs in each.

I need to know how to wire the 2 x 12-2 romex run into the 2 x 4"x4" receptacle boxes from a single 20 amp breaker.

...And to avoid any confusion, I will also be doing another run to a single 4"x"4 receptacle from a single 20amp breaker.

Thanks again my friend. You are a life saver!

 

[madpenguin]

That's better. I was almost right. The 4x4's are junction boxes. Or in the trade we call a 4x4 a "4 square". A receptacle is what you would call an outlet I suppose. Things you plug shit into. And if this doesn't confuse you, a junction box is actually an outlet....


Anyway. Yea. Just use pig tails (a 6" piece of wire). Let me do an illustration. The short piece in between the two 4x4's would just be a short run of romex. The yellow is the white wire ofcourse. Buy some of the small green grounding screws and make sure you ground out the back of the boxes along with the receptacles. That's what the green circle is supposed to represent. A grounding screw. "Homerun" means it comes straight from the panel.

 

[Deaner]

That's better. I was almost right. The 4x4's are junction boxes. Or in the trade we call a 4x4 a "4 square". A receptacle is what you would call an outlet I suppose. Things you plug shit into. And if this doesn't confuse you, a junction box is actually an outlet....


Anyway. Yea. Just use pig tails (a 6" piece of wire). Let me do an illustration. The short piece in between the two 4x4's would just be a short run of romex. The yellow is the white wire ofcourse. Buy some of the small green grounding screws and make sure you ground out the back of the boxes along with the receptacles. That's what the green circle is supposed to represent. A grounding screw. "Homerun" means it comes straight from the panel.

Perfect. We love you.

As for the connection to the panel. I do as illustrated and then wire at the panel wires in this order: ground, neutral, hot? Next, plugging in the breaker? I don't have to mess around with the main ground or anything, right?

Thanks again!!

 

[madpenguin]

As for the connection to the panel. I do as illustrated and then wire at the panel wires in this order: ground, neutral, hot? Next, plugging in the breaker? I don't have to mess around with the main ground or anything, right?

Main ground? Leave everything alone at the panel that's existing. In fact, get a flash light or better yet one of those head lamps from Lowes or Homedepot. Turn your main breaker (the larger center one up top) off BEFORE you take the front panel off.

This way, the only thing you have to worry about being hot are the top 2 lugs that your incoming feeder attaches to. Make sure you stay the hell away from those.

But yea, technically, it doesn't matter which order you hook up your branch circuits. The journeyman I apprenticed with got me in the habit of doing ground, neutral, hot so that's what I do. So with your 12/2 romex, terminate the bare copper wire under what's probably the neutral bar. Where ever the rest of your grounds are attached to. Then terminate your white neutral wire which will more than likely wind up at the same place as your ground wire. Then attach the black wire to the breaker.

Since the main breaker up top is OFF, you shouldn't have to worry about snapping the breaker in. Everything down there SHOULD be dead. Just ALWAYS, ALWAYS keep an eye on both those 2 lugs up top that your incoming feeder cable connects to. Never bridge those two wires/lugs or touch a ground to either one.

Please be safe!!!! If you want to snap a picture of your panel go ahead. You could have a split bus panel or something. That would mean you have 2 main breakers. I dunno. I'm a little worried. If your even in the slightest doubt about something then don't do it!

 

[XsublimeX]

Thanks!

Thanks!

Madpenguin you are the man!

Im indecisive becuase im flexible, my short term goal is to run 600w-1000w (1-2) lamps safely, id like to be able to upgrade with ease is the future, i have been looking at a small powerbox. Im not prejudiced agaist anything in this aspect, I want what safest, and simplest. My initial wiring plan was almost exactly what "Deaner" has been posting, but that started to seem unreliable, overly complex and just plain not as safe as a timed load center. Once i started thinking 240V and the powerbox then everything just seemed so much simpler, 240V with a 30A-50A breaker solves my over load concerns, and powerbox has a built in digi timer so no unsafe under rated timers. ill look for the Intermatic WH40 posted u mentioned, its cheap so that seems nice but this thread gotten so big stuff tough to find

Thanks again for the response, its really nice to have an EDUCATED person so dedicated to keeping people safe, basically strangers no less.
+1

 

[madpenguin]

Yea, I looked for that WH40 thread for quite awhile to no avail. This thread has become quite unwieldy....

Those portable subpanel/powerboxes your talking about.... Do they come in 30 and 50A sizes? Sold on line at hydro places?

You can certainly go that route. If I'm not mistaken those arent up to code because they use a 10-30p dryer cord. They double up the neutral as a ground. Guess it's not too big of a deal but the price sure is up there. If your a DIY'er and one of those cost 350, you can build your own for about half that. Plus it would meet 2008 code.

Eh... Up to you. The light controller in my sig isn't what I'm talking about either, altho you could certainly make one of those. You could build the portable subpanel with breakers for cheaper, believe it or not.... Timer and all..... Than the one in my sig. I kinda went over board with the one in my sig and got some expensive things.... I could have made it for about half that but it would have looked like shit...

My advice is to run ample power up front. I started out small and I keep adding circuits over and over and over again all the fuckin way from the basement to the attic. Shit gets old. I should have just ran a damn subpanel. Would have saved myself copious amounts of time (and money).

 

[HydroManiac]

This is a great thread

 

[XsublimeX]

Thanks!

Thanks!

This thread maybe a little unweildy but its full of info, its got me on over load.....I think Im overthinking things...i do that alot,

i was looking at the hardwired version of the powerbox dpc 7500, its 30a and handles 7500W, if I hard wire it correctly then it should be up to code? It has one SSR for all 6 plugs, i cant safely time them individually which kinna sux.
Since the posts i found on intermatic timers didnt really answer the questions i have now ill ask here. The guy a lowes was a doofus and couldnt answer shit.
1. to use a intermatic timer to wire multiple lights i just run the 'line' wires directly from my main breaker to to the timer and the 'load' wires to a series of 20A recepticiles?
2. Theres just no way to stagger lamp ignition with a timer like this, either its on or off rite?
3. The timer u mentioned is rated to 10000W 250V 40A, assuming the lamps are within those parameters( they will be far below except for initial spikes when first lighting) then i can run safely run plenty of lamps by my calculations, correct? sorry math is not my strong point

Considering my skill level i just dont feel like im up to building light controllers and the like at this point and i really would rather just spend the extra money for piece of mind (350 bucks for a powerbox seems way out there but 200 extra for safety is peace of mind is doable).

I am going to run ample power the FIRST time, hands down, i dont have an option, once its all wired then its onto construction of the room and that will make running more wires such a pain in the ass that im just considering it out of the question although it would be possible.
All that considered it just seems like 240V is the way to go, Ill never need more that 30-40 amps(likely much less) so some type of light controller just seems to make more sense than a sub panel and it simplifies the whole thing,(no additional timer, no power strips,one wire feeds the whole grow, etc...) as long as i can get all my ballasts with males that match my female plugs......

everybody says it and ill say it again
Thank You MadPenguin
if i could just hire you i would do it in a heart beat! I really wish there was some way to repay you, im a member of several "pot" forums and no one has been nearly as much help as you have!

 

[madpenguin]

This thread maybe a little unweildy but its full of info, its got me on over load.....I think Im overthinking things...i do that alot,

i was looking at the hardwired version of the powerbox dpc 7500, its 30a and handles 7500W, if I hard wire it correctly then it should be up to code? It has one SSR for all 6 plugs, i cant safely time them individually which kinna sux.
Since the posts i found on intermatic timers didnt really answer the questions i have now ill ask here. The guy a lowes was a doofus and couldnt answer shit.
1. to use a intermatic timer to wire multiple lights i just run the 'line' wires directly from my main breaker to to the timer and the 'load' wires to a series of 20A recepticiles?
2. Theres just no way to stagger lamp ignition with a timer like this, either its on or off rite?
3. The timer u mentioned is rated to 10000W 250V 40A, assuming the lamps are within those parameters( they will be far below except for initial spikes when first lighting) then i can run safely run plenty of lamps by my calculations, correct? sorry math is not my strong point

That Powerbox is the same exact thing as the light controller in my sig. The only diff is I use 5-20R's and not 6-20R's... 350 bones.... Man. I'm in the wrong biz.... Atleast they use a 14-30P unlike some other units out there. That one is probably up to code as your going to get but I can't say for sure without getting a peak at the inside.

Yea, the WH40 is an on/off deal. If I brainstormed it, I might be able to make it stagger. Dunno. I'm a little burned out from work today.

Question #1 is yes.
Question #2 is yes but you'd have to employ a double throw relay on the load side of the WH40.
Question #3 is yes. The WH40 is a beast at 240v....

 

[Hemphrey Bogart]

I should have just ran a damn subpanel. Would have saved myself copious amounts of time (and money).

Ain't that the truth right there! I was just thinking about that same thing the other day while I was at the hardware store looking at panels and thinking about george smiley's panel and how I should just get the pieces and start building it now instead of adding more breakers and running more wire. I've still got to run 1 more 20amp circuit, lol. At this point, I may have to just go ahead and spend the money and build a subpanel.

Thanks for sticking with the thread, MP. Some great info on here for sure.

 

[chefro420]

Hi,

Few questions....

Currently running a 1000w lumatek, plugged into a timer rated at 1875w, plugged into a good extension cord rated at 1875w. Im concerned because the timer and both ends of the extension cord get slightly warm to the touch. I want to switch to 240v.

When i checked the breaker box , i noticed a water heater breaker. Its a double 40amp breaker. The house no longer has a electric water heater , because now has an oil furnace. I found where the old water heater was, there is a junction box nearby that had 240v wrote on it. Looks like the line continues on to a 3000w electric heater attached to the wall.There was 1 white, 1 black and 1 copper wire. I was thinking of disconnecting the heater and attaching a light controller.

How easy is this to do? I have little experience, other then installling a 120v socket. Its 3 wires seems fairly retard proof or maybe an easy death.... heh . Looking on any and all advice. Also what controller to get? I will never run more then 4 1000w lights, prob just 2. Want a timer for it and maybe socket for 120v fans etc if that was possible. Also i will attach pix shortly.

Thanks for all your time and help!

 

[chefro420]

heres the pix of the breaker box, water heater 2 40amp breaker, the junction box labeled 240v and the 3000w electric heater. ALso how dangerous is it to use my current setup???

Thanks!

 

[XsublimeX]

Sorry to post and clutter the thread up more but ive almost got this down in my head, postin here freaks me the fuck out anyways and i aint popped a bean in prolly 5 years

i guess if its really that simple,and it sounds like it is, then i guess my only real concerns are safety and reliablity. i hope these are the last questions i have to bug u with.
1. Is this thing as safe as can be, I know a real light timer would be better but i can afford this and the receptacles easily, and pay cash too!

2. I know solid states relays are by far the best choice for reliable and long term use, Any idea how many hours use i might get?

3. i guess i kinna wonder how loud its gonna be too, but i can mount it on rubber feet or something to muffle it if its loud i guess.

4.You said in another post that <10/2 doesnt fit into a receptacle screw down(cant find it now), if i wire this in a series do i need to use 10/3 to go from receptacle to receptacle or what do i need to do?

5.*EDIT*u mentioned wiring 120v plugs and 240v plugs, how do i do that?

If it is safe, and im guessing ur not advising its use if its not safe, and its as easy as youve described then this sounds, Way less technical than building somthing and way cheaper than some yuppie brand name shit.

Take your sweet time to answer me man, im in no rush. I just wanna make this safe simple and functional. i have plenty of time to get it rite so dont feel rushed to answer me, im not burning anything down. Ive learved WAY more than i ever thought i would have to about electricity and wiring for "plug and play" ballasts, haha, but alot of the stuff ive struggled with, you have made much more clear. Im also getting a good wiring book just to make sure im not rusty on wiring everything up rite, any that u like? i saw u say ugly's was good

Thanks a ton man!

 

[madpenguin]

No, that powerbox looks safe and probably up to code just as much as the one in my sig.


Ummm... I'm having a rough time right now and am going to take a little break. It seems I've been dating a psyco and she flipped out last night and called the cops over an arguement and said I threantened her with a shotgun. This was at the bar she works at.

All I said was that I was going to lock the deadbolts tonite so find someplace else to sleep and she flipped. I now have a warant out for my arrest along with a pending courtdate.

My heart is split in two and I just don't feel like doing this forum thing for awhile. Sorry guys but I actually loved her but realize now that she is truely fucking crazy and I need to get her out of this house,.

 

[SmokinErb]

Merr. Well good luck with that, MP. Hope it all works out for you.

 

[madpenguin]

Yea, I think everything will be OK. I just need her out. If she's willing to fabricate a crazy story like that then I don't know whether I should tear down my grow or not. Because she knows about it.

We are both upset about the way things turned out and reconciled slightly. Just enough for both of us to be civil as she slowly moves all her shit out. So... I don't think I'm going to tear down.

Anyway. My heart just isn't it this right now. I'll come back in a week or so. Just try to look through the thread for info. Most everything is there already.

 

[SmokinErb]

That's a tough choice to make. Merr, I'd probably suck it up and try to finish it too, personally. So long as she can grow up a little bit, apparently, and be civil about it as you say and just get her stuff out.

I got the shittiest luck with crazy women. I swear. I take it your warrants and everything have already been taken care of? I don't really see how they could have issued a warrant just on her words. Maybe looking for you to have a word with you as part of an investigation, but damn.

 

[XsublimeX]

Yea, I think everything will be OK. I just need her out. If she's willing to fabricate a crazy story like that then I don't know whether I should tear down my grow or not. Because she knows about it.

We are both upset about the way things turned out and reconciled slightly. Just enough for both of us to be civil as she slowly moves all her shit out. So... I don't think I'm going to tear down.

Anyway. My heart just isn't it this right now. I'll come back in a week or so. Just try to look through the thread for info. Most everything is there already.

Yea man keep ur head up and watch ur ass, those crazy bitches can be ur undoing

Thanks a ton for ur help i think i got this under control now thatnks to u man

 

[madpenguin]

That's a tough choice to make. Merr, I'd probably suck it up and try to finish it too, personally. So long as she can grow up a little bit, apparently, and be civil about it as you say and just get her stuff out.

I got the shittiest luck with crazy women. I swear. I take it your warrants and everything have already been taken care of? I don't really see how they could have issued a warrant just on her words. Maybe looking for you to have a word with you as part of an investigation, but damn.

Yea, my ladies are on day 4 of the final water flush. Not tearing down. She actually tried to go to the prosecutors office to have this dismissed but they won't let her. It's a law that's been passed for however long due to "battered wife syndrome". She can't retract any of it and a warrant is issued for my arrest because supposedly there was a witness who heard me say all this. She obviously got one of her friends to lie for her because I said no such thing.

Anyway, she is doing the right thing and got an attorney to handle this. There will be a court date and her and her attorney will say that she made it up in an attempt to get me to leave or something. Says she's willing to accept the consequences of her actions. So anyway, her lawyer advised me to lay really low because there is and will be a warrant out for my arrest until her court date.

Guys, I'm in my MID 30's and she is approaching her mid 20's.... DON'T EVER DATE ANYONE UNDER 30 IF YOU CAN HELP IT!!! Fucking immature little girl is all she is. She has most of her stuff out and I have my apartment back. It actually feels pretty good.

Anyway. Sorry for the soap opera. Popped quite a few 10mg Perc's so I'll try and knock some of these questions out before I get too buzzed.

 

[madpenguin]

1. Is this thing as safe as can be, I know a real light timer would be better but i can afford this and the receptacles easily, and pay cash too!

That powerbox looks to be ok on the outside. They use a NEMA 14-30P cord so the neutrals and grounds should be separated inside the box. Hopefully they used #10 wire throughout that box because I don't see any over current protection (breakers) on that thing.

Maybe if Jeff is floating around here and reads this, he can clarify the construction of these. Hell, maybe they have a pdf on their site that tells you what wire gauge is used. I don't know.

2. I know solid states relays are by far the best choice for reliable and long term use, Any idea how many hours use i might get?

Have no idea. I suppose the statement that SSR's are beter than mechanical ones is subjective. It's kinda like comparing a 2010 nissan sentra with a 1977 4 door Oldmobile. I'll take the olds any day. It's all mechanical. Something breaks and you can fix it for cheap. Eh.. bad analogy. Anyway...

I've heard the SSR's have heat issues but I personally have never used them so I really can't saying anything about them. Personally, just on a gut instinct, I would probably opt for mechanical relays versus Solid State.

3. i guess i kinda wonder how loud its gonna be too, but i can mount it on rubber feet or something to muffle it if its loud i guess.

It should be just about perfectly silent. A mechanical relay makes a semi-loud clicking noise when the contacts close but I don't think you'll get that with an SSR.

4.You said in another post that <10/2 doesnt fit into a receptacle screw down(cant find it now), if i wire this in a series do i need to use 10/3 to go from receptacle to receptacle or what do i need to do?

Well, the thing is pre-made so hopefully you won't have to rip it apart and start re-wiring it. I would open it up just to see how it's constructed and what gauge wire is used.... Again, Maybe Jeff from Powerbox can answer some of your concerns.

5.*EDIT*u mentioned wiring 120v plugs and 240v plugs, how do i do that?

On a NEMA 5-15R or a NEMA 5-20R (both 15/20 amp 120v receptacles), you wire your hot black wire to the brass screw (black to brass will save your ass), and then you wire a white neutral wire to the silver screw on the other side of the receptacle. Then take your grounding conductor and screw it down to the green grounding screw on the receptacle.

For 240 volts, You need 2 hot leads. Typically, one will be black and the other will be red. The important part is that they originate from opposite phases. You ensure that this happens by using a double pole breaker (one that takes up 2 slots in your panel and has 2 screws on it so you can attach 2 different wires to the breaker). When using a multimeter, touch one lead to one wire and the other lead to the other wire. You should read 240 volts. Make sure you have the dial/knob turned up to handle 250 volts or 300 volts is what most of them will say.

So, you would terminate the black wire to one side of the receptacle and then terminate the red wire to the other side of the receptacle. Then attach a ground wire to the green grounding screw of the receptacle. There is no neutral on a 240 volt circuit.

If it is safe, and im guessing ur not advising its use if its not safe, and its as easy as youve described then this sounds, Way less technical than building somthing and way cheaper than some yuppie brand name shit.

I'm not saying it's not safe. Don't misunderstand me. All I'm saying is that I don't know how it's wired on the inside, like what gauge wire and such. But yes, the DIY light tutorial in my sig is the same EXACT thing as the one you posted from Powerbox only mine is wired for 120v and not 240v. I have the capability to wire my light controller for 240 volts because it's being fed from a 30A double pole breaker. Measure between the red and black wire inside the 4x4x6 enclosure you you'll read 240v.

I only use 120v ballasts so I used NEMA 5-20R (120v) receptacles instead of 6-20R (240v) receptacles.

Take your sweet time to answer me man, im in no rush. I just wanna make this safe simple and functional. i have plenty of time to get it rite so dont feel rushed to answer me, im not burning anything down. Ive learved WAY more than i ever thought i would have to about electricity and wiring for "plug and play" ballasts, haha, but alot of the stuff ive struggled with, you have made much more clear. Im also getting a good wiring book just to make sure im not rusty on wiring everything up rite, any that u like? i saw u say ugly's was good

Thanks a ton man!

Yea, if you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask. Ugly's is a little technical. It's very code oriented. It's what you look at real quick while on the job instead of busting out a giant NEC.

As far as books go, the ones you'll find in Lowes and Home Depot are usually good, no matter which one you get. I have a book called "Wiring a house" by Rex Cauldwell. Up top it says "Taunton's: For Pros by Pros"....

Usually any Black and Decker Electrical book will be really good.

If you want a hybrid book that has a bunch of pictures and tells you how to wire a house in simple terms (like a black and decker book) but is also strongly based/references the NEC, then look for "Electrical Wiring: Residential. 16th edition. Based on the 2008 National Electrical Code". That is probably THE best book you can buy for the money. However, I don't think you'll find it at Lowes or Home Depot. Could be wrong tho.

If you still have questions, don't hesitate to ask.