This is a really cool setup! Very impressive! I had a question about your nutrient bottles. You mentioned the sediment. Are the bottles agitated or shaken up before the nutes get pumped out? Just curious.
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Growing with the Borg
- Thread starter XYZVector
- Start date
XYZVector
Member
@Boo yes I understand it is a Rube Goldberg machine. Unfortunately it has too be. Yes I am using cal mag. The ph in the res is drifting up, I keep putting 5.6 ph nutrients in but my res refuses to drop below 5.9. I am on the other side of the country visiting family for Christmas so I can’t just add PH down to the res. If I didn’t do it this way I wouldn’t be able to grow. I have to be able to leave my grow at a moments notice, and stay gone for up to a month at a time.
XYZVector
Member
@Smoke Creek Cannabis I do gave some mag stirring system I used on a grow about a year and a half ago and well they work they weren’t really necessary.
XYZVector
Member
Yes I am using cal/mag unfortunatly I am having a hard time maintaing the correct ph in my reservior. It likes to stay at 5.9. @Boo Yes it is complicated, and there are a lot of things that can fail. Unfortunatly for me I could not grow any plants without this system. I travel for work so I have to be ready to hop on an airplane at a moments notice, and not be able to come back to my plants for a month. It is a Rube Goldberg machine like you see Tom employing to catch Jerry the mouse. That is why I have Tom chasing Jerry as my Avatar, since it represents the difficulty of catching the mouse. I can make things happen but I don't have absolute control over my grow as if I was present for it. I can effect change but it takes time for that to happen like adding amendments in soil. Right now I am mixing the nutrient infeed at 5.6 to drop the ph from 6.4 to 5.8 it takes about a week for it to actually happen. I can push buttons but that is not like walking up to the bottle of PH down and adding it manually. It is a different way to grow, but for me it has been working for a couple years now. I am getting better and learning how to grow this plant alot better. Still learning and adjusting the machine, software and interface to get the most out of it.
XYZVector
Member
@Boo I think it looks like a mess of cables and tubes. I know I can do a better job organizing it. I appreciate the compliments, This is a project that I have been working on for years. This incarnation improves on one big issue my last system had and that is the noise footprint of the entire operation. The last system was large loud and way oversize.
I ran it for a year and a half. It was bulky, and hard to work on. It was a good system just a pain to own and clean.
Ca++
Well-known member
Some need shaking, some don't.
A know a few methods. With a conical base like your top tank, you can pull feed out, and put it back in the top. With 5L bottles, you can fit a pump in easy enough. Aeration offers some agitation. I'm not sure which mag stirrers you speak of, but Ali have been trying to flog me fish tank wave makers, that work the same. Only the inside bit is a sealed unit, so you can't see if it's a micro-plastics issue.
I have mixing just run as the tank fills and through the following dosing stage. I failed in the past, putting a pump in a 5L bottle with humic substances stuck to it like it was a humic magnet. So I favour conical bottomed cylinders now, with external pumps, from bottom to top. Though so far that project is still a pile of parts, I think the car syringes will do nicely, for a budget cylinder.
XYZVector
Member
Yeah the conical tank is for mixing only, that way it is completly drained before making the next batch what sucks is I have to leave a bit of solution in the dosing column, to keep the PH sensor from drying out. Shaking the bottles every month works. A month is about the longest I can leave the grow because things like runoff have to be drained, and plants need to be trimmed, and lights raised. Now I could build a automatic light adjustment system, but damn I don't want any more complexity.
I just set up my second tent, and will be dropping seeds on New Years day come check us out at the Smot&Crispy show this Tuesday night at 11pm we will be dropping seeds showing off our grows wait I need some eye candy for the next post. Been a minute since I posted photos of what is going on in the Borg tent.
Wow a cool system you have designed.
To be able to be absent for 4 weeks and the grow carry on without you is very impressive
, if you could make that the whole grow every commercial room in the world would want 1 and you be very rich, even if just every small grower you would be rich.
Either way very impressive work
To be able to be absent for 4 weeks and the grow carry on without you is very impressive
, if you could make that the whole grow every commercial room in the world would want 1 and you be very rich, even if just every small grower you would be rich. Either way very impressive work
Terppalooza
Well-known member
can you explain the system a bit better? where do you store the water? what are the red an yellow tub? so it mixeds the water and fertilizer inline?
Ca++
Well-known member
A friend hand waters every day, and is adverse to me putting a pump and emitters in. Not everyone can be helped. The KISS crowd are quite proud of their achievements, and will stamp all over technical hydro threads, with talk of soil and slow release. Many commercial grows use online proportional dosing, and it's really only tailoring events to change over the course of time that's a timer obstacle. I would think by now we can use OIT like timers and schedule them as calendar events. However, it can be quicker to just plug in another timer, or pop a tube in a bottle, when it's time to change things. I have taken to watering some things down, so they can be delivered with the same event length as other things, to share a timer. Simplification is a big thing. I look at mine and think I must draw it out. I forget myself, and find myself wondering why I did things certain ways, only to then work out it was for fail safe reasons. This systems are best left simple as possible, so people can relate to them. People are are expected to interact with their grows, not leave them for entire months. Even if they can. Because some peoples jobs are simply spotters, for the unexpected.Wow a cool system you have designed.
To be able to be absent for 4 weeks and the grow carry on without you is very impressive
Either way very impressive work
I do look forward to putting seeds in a box one day, then coming back 3 months later to find bagged up weed in their place. I might not be able to fix that robot though.
Over the course of my posts, is everything from filling, to dosing, to draining. I have never brought it all together like this thread though, as I don't think people are ready for it. Even fitting a tap is too much for most. Which I have also simplified, with no takers
XYZVector
Member
Okay your confusing the old system with the new one. Here let's go thru the doser.
RO water is feed into the black conical tank this is called the mix tank. The feed line has a flow meter on it and measures the amount of water in the mix tank as it is filled. For example if I wanted to make a gallon of nutrients, I enter into the controller that I want to make a gallon of nutrients and the recipie to follow. Once the gallon is metered into the mix tank a small pump starts and recirculates the water thru the dosing column. Then precission peristaltic pumps add the correct amout of nutrient based on the recipie and the amount of nutrients to be mixed. This is done in sequence like when hand mixing nutrients. After the nutrients are added in the system will correct the EC of the solution if it's too strong adds more water. Then it finally PH's the water to the correct PH. Once it is done mixing the batch it sends it to one of these that are below it.
These are the resirvoirs for each tent, they have internal chillers, and PH EC Temperature, and Level sensors. The nutrient is maintained at an optimal temperature 66f. When it is watering time it will feed the nutrient solution to the tent it is attached too. Going to clean up the wiring on these but they are prototypes, so they are kinda McGuyverd together. There are two tents in my setup, I used to have only one res that feed two tents. However I want to have the two tents in different parts of the growing cycle. One tent flowering while the other one is veg. Therefore I need two different resivors and feed systems.
Those pictures you are refering too is the previous version of this system. It was way too big and a pain to work on and maintain. I hope this clears it up for you.
The tote below is the runoff tote, and the grey things beside the tote are solar power generators. This thing is solar powered they collect the solar power and distribute it to the tent each tent has a 2kw solar power generator. To the far left is a CO2 tank for the tent to add CO2 when noboy is home, yes you leave this thing in the house by itself the plants will suck the house dry of CO2 < 200ppm. I like to keep the CO2 at about 600ppm or higher.
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XYZVector
Member
Yes the timers are propritary we are getting ready to market just the timer. They don't work like any other timer on the market and simplify the whole thing. The timer program is embeded into resivor's controller in this system. Also the fertigation system is very unique it brings the professional level fertigation to the home, as it is cheap to build. It is fully pressure compensating and is the next step up from a professional system. It is much easier to own, and operate, and is very flexible. The beta testers swear by it and some of my beta testers want to install it in their commecial operations.
As far as the soil growers they can enjoy their labor of love. I don't have time to dink around with soil amemdments and all that happy fun stuff. Most people don't realize that bag of Fox Farm Ocean Forest is amended peat moss with perlite. It is a challenge to ammend the soil at the right times, and get a good product out of soil. So my hats go off to them for thier ability to read the plant and add the correct amendments at the correct time for when the plant will need it in the future.
The way I grow is just one of many ways you can grow this plant, and to some they won't like it but I would never belittle their efforts. If they belittle mine and say this way is inferior I just ignore them. What matters at the end of the day is the product that comes out of the tent. Not how you grew it or what you used to grow it with.
As far as the soil growers they can enjoy their labor of love. I don't have time to dink around with soil amemdments and all that happy fun stuff. Most people don't realize that bag of Fox Farm Ocean Forest is amended peat moss with perlite. It is a challenge to ammend the soil at the right times, and get a good product out of soil. So my hats go off to them for thier ability to read the plant and add the correct amendments at the correct time for when the plant will need it in the future.
The way I grow is just one of many ways you can grow this plant, and to some they won't like it but I would never belittle their efforts. If they belittle mine and say this way is inferior I just ignore them. What matters at the end of the day is the product that comes out of the tent. Not how you grew it or what you used to grow it with.
Ca++
Well-known member
I like what you are doing here. I don't have the skills for custom timer builds, to be getting weeks ahead of myself. You have combined two different approaches I have taken. One the known water volume, so known feed requirement. That was great with dtw, where the feed event was on a timer, and the fill float controlled. So literally the dip pumps run duration, was dictating the dosing pumps run duration. That could get most people through a holiday, or a couple of weeks before much needed changing anyway. Though unforeseen changes in the water supply. Most people have run a tank, or a bucket, where every fill was repetitive work, and the check with the meter was just a confirmation. A cap of this, a lid of that, it's all easy to do with timers and pumps. This kind of explanation can help people associate with the basic setup.
You have also used pH and EC sensors, which can correct a recirculating system. Making real time adjustments, to things we know will happen any day, but still can't plan for exactly. There is only so much you can pre-program, as events are never quite calendar. As much as I wanted to automate things weeks in advance, I couldn't really do it. It would be a very well dialed in grow, to decide weeks ahead, what changes would need to be made.
If you are making a calendar like timer app with multiple outputs, that might be your real winner. I have never found a basic timer, with more than two output relays. It's price, made me just buy two timers. However, a 7 day timer can't do things like every second day. We do have a gap in the market for a fancy timer program, on a nice enough device. It would save me having to water down my acid, so weak my dosing pump needed to run as long as a feed pump, just to share a timer. I have rows of timers.. every pump would like one really, and it's messy. It's why I use single part feeds, not a host of bottles as you have been able to. I have used stepper motors to, for very controlled flows, but it starts getting expensive.
What is the mixing column? I think you may be using your own term, for something a few of us will be scratching our heads over
You have also used pH and EC sensors, which can correct a recirculating system. Making real time adjustments, to things we know will happen any day, but still can't plan for exactly. There is only so much you can pre-program, as events are never quite calendar. As much as I wanted to automate things weeks in advance, I couldn't really do it. It would be a very well dialed in grow, to decide weeks ahead, what changes would need to be made.
If you are making a calendar like timer app with multiple outputs, that might be your real winner. I have never found a basic timer, with more than two output relays. It's price, made me just buy two timers. However, a 7 day timer can't do things like every second day. We do have a gap in the market for a fancy timer program, on a nice enough device. It would save me having to water down my acid, so weak my dosing pump needed to run as long as a feed pump, just to share a timer. I have rows of timers.. every pump would like one really, and it's messy. It's why I use single part feeds, not a host of bottles as you have been able to. I have used stepper motors to, for very controlled flows, but it starts getting expensive.
What is the mixing column? I think you may be using your own term, for something a few of us will be scratching our heads over
XYZVector
Member
Yeah Ca++ the dosing pumps are not timer based. They measure out in pulses, those dosing pumps are not regular dc motors. For example it takes 11000 pulses to dose just 1mL of nutrient solution. Since it is pulse based you can control the speed of the pump based of the frequency of the pulses. So in this system when you define what each pump is dosing you tell it how many mL you want per gal, and how many mL a minute you want to dose at. This is important especially when making small batches 0.5 gal or less. Otherwise things like Armor Si fall out of solution.
wisemadman
Member
wonderful setup mate, you must be an engineer or smth 
cant wait to see how your grow goes
cant wait to see how your grow goes
