hello man.. simple issue it is not.. the coco never dries out and gets feed twice a day with run off. good root development and .7 litres a day split into two 350ml waterings.
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Growing in Coco 10 years. Lost my way
- Thread starter siftedunity
- Start date
Absolem
Active member
Yes.
I grow 1 or 2 plants under a 600 hps in two gallon grow bags. I have 8 600 watt hps lights. Each covers a 3x4 area. If I grow 2 plants they each yield 10+ zips. If I grow one plant I yield 20+ zips. 3-4 multi feeds a day. Little to no run off.
When I first started growing in coco I did some crazy ass shit. It didn't seem crazy at the time because it "fixed" what issues I had at the given moment. I thought I really found the golden nugget of knowledge when I set up two stock tanks(reservoirs) in my room. One filled with fertilizer solution the other plain water. Feed once with fertilizer then water with plain water for the second watering. Needless to say as time went on this method turned out to be another dead end to healthy plants.
Going by PPM levels are useless unless you know each given elements ppm.
Let's say two people both run 600 ppms using RO water.
_______Grower A 600 ppm_______________Grower B 600 ppm
N.................100...............................................125
P..................125................................................75
K.................200...............................................200
Ca...............100................................................125
Mg................50.................................................25
S..................25.................................................50
Both growers are running 600 ppm but each will have vastly different results because the elemental ppm of each nutrient element is different. This is why ppms or EC won't give a grower useful information unless each individual elemental ppm is known.
Coco coir has a negative charge. It attracts the elements Ca++, Mg++, and K+ because they have positive charges. This is the buffer in coco and what makes coco work. If you don't give coco coir the right amount of Ca, Mg, and K to fill the coco buffer correctly you will run into constant problems. Plant roots send out positive ions into the coco medium to break the bond coco has on Ca++, Mg++, and K+. The + stands for how many positive hydrogen atoms the element has. As the root hairs send out positive ions for nutrients they are constantly unbinding and removing Ca, Mg,and K from the medium. If you don't have the correct levels of Ca, Mg, and K in your coco medium then it won't work like it does for DJM and many others.
makeitfunky
Member
Are they drying out between feeds or staying constantly wet? How much run off are you getting?
I have a feeling it must be to do with the coco being too wet (ignoring the JDM, HGO threads etc)
My friend is not having any nitrogen tox problems at all using exactly the same cuttings. He grows in big pots 15/20l and waters every few days with a high EC and the same feed as me.
It must be something to do with the coco being too wet?
Maybe canna coco isn’t well suited to it? It does seem fluffy and not particularly fiberous. What do you think?
I have a feeling it must be to do with the coco being too wet (ignoring the JDM, HGO threads etc)
My friend is not having any nitrogen tox problems at all using exactly the same cuttings. He grows in big pots 15/20l and waters every few days with a high EC and the same feed as me.
It must be something to do with the coco being too wet?
Maybe canna coco isn’t well suited to it? It does seem fluffy and not particularly fiberous. What do you think?
could be the case. the problem is the word ''wet'' is quite subjective.
I have no issues multi feeding in veg. but im vegging in beer cups or small square 1.5 litre pots. the are root bound within a week or two so even if you doused them in water they will suck up everything and need more again soon.
in flower ive had limited success with multifeeds but that could just be my current issue. I used to water every other day, yield and quality were good. but root mass wasn't half as good as keeping the medium moist.
but then if the plant is pretty much rootbound and the root to coco mass is more even, plus vpd is good, temps are high, co2 being used etc.. then multifeeds should be the way to go. no different to say growing in clay pebbles with constantly flushing nutrients passing over the roots. but then growing in this way kinda makes the coco itself less of a variable.
since if you have massive pots with a small bushy plant.. loads of coco and not a great root mass, the coco is gonna have a dominant hold over your situation. and that coco will determine how your plant health pans out.
that's how I see it anyway.
not everyone has the environment which allows for multifeeds, that's prob why some people don't. although I will say that there are growers on youtube etc with bigger plant counts who water every 3 days in coco and pulling high numbers. I think its much to do with environment too.
I have no issues multi feeding in veg. but im vegging in beer cups or small square 1.5 litre pots. the are root bound within a week or two so even if you doused them in water they will suck up everything and need more again soon.
in flower ive had limited success with multifeeds but that could just be my current issue. I used to water every other day, yield and quality were good. but root mass wasn't half as good as keeping the medium moist.
but then if the plant is pretty much rootbound and the root to coco mass is more even, plus vpd is good, temps are high, co2 being used etc.. then multifeeds should be the way to go. no different to say growing in clay pebbles with constantly flushing nutrients passing over the roots. but then growing in this way kinda makes the coco itself less of a variable.
since if you have massive pots with a small bushy plant.. loads of coco and not a great root mass, the coco is gonna have a dominant hold over your situation. and that coco will determine how your plant health pans out.
that's how I see it anyway.
not everyone has the environment which allows for multifeeds, that's prob why some people don't. although I will say that there are growers on youtube etc with bigger plant counts who water every 3 days in coco and pulling high numbers. I think its much to do with environment too.
p0opstlnksal0t
Active member
I wish I was more help buddy but I only know of one way to get higher EC reading on the drainage then what you were putting in this tells me you were getting salt build-up somehow
makeitfunky
Member
I agree multi feeds should def work for your grow, going by the DTW threads on here but also by the fact it makes sense.
What is your res temp?
Coco temp? Are the pots getting too cold at night for multifeeds?
Do you run a sealed room?
Maybe the root zone is too cold due to cold water being applied several times per day and this for some reason causes N tox
What is your res temp?
Coco temp? Are the pots getting too cold at night for multifeeds?
Do you run a sealed room?
Maybe the root zone is too cold due to cold water being applied several times per day and this for some reason causes N tox
I've not got a clue. Maybe the plants not taking up as much salt because of their issues? Idk
Or the Coco already having a high EC of something within it. Never checked the Coco before use.
makeitfunky
Member
Canna coco pro plus is supposed to be 0.4 ec. I’ve not checked either
They are feed a nute mix that they sits between about 19c and 22c
Not running sealed, it pulls air from inside in the day (lights off) and air from outside at night (lights on)
Mixing fresh nutrients daily
Night temps are slightly low sometimes. Between about 19c and 22c
Lights on 24c to 26c
Temperature at pot level during lights on is about 21c
If its 0.4ec then that might make sense. 500ppm going in, at 0.8 to 1 EC.
Then add the 0.4 and you have 1.3 to 1.5
Or 650 ppm to 750 ppm.
Which is around what I got as runnoff
I didn't say YOU did multi feed after transplanting . it was just an explination in case that was the fact . maybe you should given more details . & in the second part of my post , it mentions that a constantly saturated pot will cause problems too because the roots are basically smothered ...... that MIGHT be a cause for your problems too ..... just trying to help , no need for ripping my head off !
makeitfunky
Member
Ok how about your drip lines. What are they made of? I use a product called iceline. Made in uk I believe, the nutrient sits in it in a warm room could off gas type chemicals be entering the plant trough that?
I don't think he meant it offensively man. Sometimes people just get defensive if their techniques I think.
Hello man, have lots of admiration for your work.
The whole yield thing depends a lot on veg time also. If you sticking a clone in a pot and then flowering then 5oz is great. I've vegged some really big plants and flowered them. They use a ton of water and yield well. In My case I should probably veg much longer but can't right now.
The whole ppm thing is true, I've been using canna stats to break down the nutrients profile. The advanced is always quite high on the N in flower. I think the bloom has a higher ratio of N than the grow version (don't quote me though) that's why I've been running 1.6 ml per litre a with 2 ml per litre b. As the a has the N. But of course the a has other shit also.
Well I've hand watered and then used drippers so not that. And I use the topspin dripper kits that regulate the flow. I think Ive heard of iceline. Is it good?
found this ,,
https://cxhorticulture.co.uk/blog/challenges-growing-hard-water/
pretty much somes up my mess ,,,tesco for now till i get the ro ,,should have done it years ago but then i never had any problems till last 5 years ,,21 years same water source and never a problem ,,its a conspiracy ,the govt are pissing in my reservoir
https://cxhorticulture.co.uk/blog/challenges-growing-hard-water/
pretty much somes up my mess ,,,tesco for now till i get the ro ,,should have done it years ago but then i never had any problems till last 5 years ,,21 years same water source and never a problem ,,its a conspiracy ,the govt are pissing in my reservoir
Trying to think out of the box, since the water issue was covered in depth.
Are your bulbs old? Old bulbs would result in a drop in yield, the plants would not metabolize as quickly as they use to. Leading to a build up in fertilizer and more issues similar to what you described.
The water issue sounds like a good start. I do think it is a bit strange to see a Nitrogen toxicity though. Typically bad water, would show as a deficiency, some sort of cal mag, ph, iron. Although you see something new all the time.
The fertilizer build up with such a low feed rate seems a bit odd. Sounds like the plant isn't metabolizing properly for one reason or the other. Something with the environment, light, Co2 or Air Exchange? Changing locations, and having the issue arrive is very suspect.
Gl,
Mr^^
Are your bulbs old? Old bulbs would result in a drop in yield, the plants would not metabolize as quickly as they use to. Leading to a build up in fertilizer and more issues similar to what you described.
The water issue sounds like a good start. I do think it is a bit strange to see a Nitrogen toxicity though. Typically bad water, would show as a deficiency, some sort of cal mag, ph, iron. Although you see something new all the time.
The fertilizer build up with such a low feed rate seems a bit odd. Sounds like the plant isn't metabolizing properly for one reason or the other. Something with the environment, light, Co2 or Air Exchange? Changing locations, and having the issue arrive is very suspect.
Gl,
Mr^^
Hello man.. The issues do seem to change. This time it was a calcium deficiency in to the N toxicity. Im certain it was cal as the leaves were forming holes like the they had been chewed on but I don't have bugs. So added the calm again and it resolved.
Then back to the N issue.
I change the bulbs every run so not that. I do run air cooled but I'm used to those.
Then back to the N issue.
I change the bulbs every run so not that. I do run air cooled but I'm used to those.
wow, can i have your old bulbs? just kidding, but really change every run? i have bulbs that have been running non stop for 2 years lol, just started switching them out, lmao.
