Growing in Coco 10 years. Lost my way

[makeitfunky]

I am having exactly the same problems. Absolutely identical to you. I’ve just switched to 6.5l pots from 8 as thought that might help.

I’ve got a friend growing the same strain soil style. Big pots / wet dry cycles and they are able to take high ec without the N tox. It’s something to do with the DTW element.

An more ideas? How are you getting on with the RO? I’m in the UK where are you? we should try and crack this together.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=349279

 

[oldbootz]

Some obvious things that you probably already considered:

1. Check with scope for some type of broad mite, russet mites, cyclamen mites.
2. Make sure the same genetics can grow fine at another grow and its your grow that's the problem. Some genetics can show clawing at low ppm.
3. Do a side by side with RO store bought bottles for 1 plant and see if it fixes the problem before you fork out the $$$ for your own unit. (but i understand you want this run to go smoothly regardless)

Good luck!

 

[gaiusmarius]

after catching up, i noticed you said you moved location, even though the water supply stayed the same?

if thats the case and you have crossed off everything thats been mentioned already, including broad mites, which can hide really well, although they screw the quality of the end product as well as screwing the yield.

another thought re the ro filter, the easiest way to make that work is to put some 20% to 30% of tap water in the RO water, as the nutes are mostly made for tap water.

the last thought i had, goes back to the new location, if you did move and had this problem ever since, you might want to think about off gassing. i know it sounds like an urban legend, but it's a real phenonomen, some types of plastic give off a plant fucking gass when they are in the same area as a hps lamp. i had this experience and had to use a tent in that location and a strong intake pumping fresh air from outside, instead of letting the intake be sucked in passively. do the plants right near the intake look the best by any chance? do you have some old linoleum floor covering?

in the end it's not magic, give equal amounts of A & B at a ph of around 5.8 and your plants should thrive, if thats not working which always worked before, you need to look outside the box imo.

 

[hazyfontazy]

in the end it's not magic, give equal amounts of A & B at a ph of around 5.8 and your plants should thrive, if thats not working which always worked before, you need to look outside the box imo.

Gaius my man ,i totally agree ,i used same formula for 20 odd years then wack from nowhere ,crap after crap grow(5 years ) ,so change this change that ,blame everything ,,whats going wrong ,new metres ,new food ,new medium ,clean and restart ,new lamps ,a new tent ,blame the bloke down the road and his dog ,the mrs is poisoning them , you would not believe how irritating and soul destroying these problems can be ,,all the effort and then wheres me buds ,from 26 oz a metre down to 6 , i nearly went back to basics and grew in soil ,thought NO,,it has worked all these years lets figure it out ,,realised my water was shit and started cleaning it up ,grows are now back on track and me and the mrs talking again lol

 

[gaiusmarius]

really glad you found the issue, 5 years is a long time. in the end he will have to go down the list, if it's not the water it might be the off gassing, thats all i'm really saying. been growing a long time and have come across offgassing only 2 times, once years ago at a mates set up, he had to rip the floor cover out and was golden and in one of my spaces i had to seal the grow space off from the room it was in with a tent as well as adding active intake, that did the trick. either way lets hope he can find the source of the problem.

 

[hazyfontazy]

really glad you found the issue, 5 years is a long time. in the end he will have to go down the list, if it's not the water it might be the off gassing, thats all i'm really saying. been growing a long time and have come across offgassing only 2 times, once years ago at a mates set up, he had to rip the floor cover out and was golden and in one of my spaces i had to seal the grow space off from the room it was in with a tent as well as adding active intake, that did the trick. either way lets hope he can find the source of the problem.

i blamed off gassing too ,2 new tents proved me wrong

 

[siftedunity]

Some obvious things that you probably already considered:

1. Check with scope for some type of broad mite, russet mites, cyclamen mites.
2. Make sure the same genetics can grow fine at another grow and its your grow that's the problem. Some genetics can show clawing at low ppm.
3. Do a side by side with RO store bought bottles for 1 plant and see if it fixes the problem before you fork out the $$$ for your own unit. (but i understand you want this run to go smoothly regardless)

Good luck!

100% not broad mites. Or russet mites. I know the signs and they definitely ain't the reason.

Have grown these genetics forr tears. I've good a moonshine that is slightly sensitive to high N. But this is like that but 20x worse. I've got stardawgs in the same grow which are heavy feeders. They don't show signs of toxicity but they don't look right. Their leaves are kinda patchy and just not got that flourishing look. And their yield has taken a nose dive too. I'm talking from like chuck cola cans to golf ball size nugs with loads of stalk in between. But the quality is still great which is what I don't get.

 

[siftedunity]

I am having exactly the same problems. Absolutely identical to you. I’ve just switched to 6.5l pots from 8 as thought that might help.

I’ve got a friend growing the same strain soil style. Big pots / wet dry cycles and they are able to take high ec without the N tox. It’s something to do with the DTW element.

An more ideas? How are you getting on with the RO? I’m in the UK where are you? we should try and crack this together.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=349279

Hello man I've heard the same from a few UK grower Maybe they have started messing around with the tap water in the UK.

 

[siftedunity]

after catching up, i noticed you said you moved location, even though the water supply stayed the same?

if thats the case and you have crossed off everything thats been mentioned already, including broad mites, which can hide really well, although they screw the quality of the end product as well as screwing the yield.

another thought re the ro filter, the easiest way to make that work is to put some 20% to 30% of tap water in the RO water, as the nutes are mostly made for tap water.

the last thought i had, goes back to the new location, if you did move and had this problem ever since, you might want to think about off gassing. i know it sounds like an urban legend, but it's a real phenonomen, some types of plastic give off a plant fucking gass when they are in the same area as a hps lamp. i had this experience and had to use a tent in that location and a strong intake pumping fresh air from outside, instead of letting the intake be sucked in passively. do the plants right near the intake look the best by any chance? do you have some old linoleum floor covering?

in the end it's not magic, give equal amounts of A & B at a ph of around 5.8 and your plants should thrive, if thats not working which always worked before, you need to look outside the box imo.

Hello man,
Tbh with the ro I'd rather just use that and add anything I need in, rather than mix it back with the water from the tap..
If the tap is the actual issue.. Idk though I need to ponder this.

I'm quite anal about things that may off gas. There is nothing in the room apart from pots, lights, wiring, a humidifier and ducting oh and gorilla tape that covers any gaps in the room.. I did worry about the tape but tbh i had zero tape in the old location. And Ive done two grows here, and the old location was there for years. This is the third grow at this new spot, with the issues. The walls are plaster board. So unless gorilla tape is responsible then no. The intake is passive but the grow room air is continually exchanged and the fans run 24/7. The plants nearest are the same as ones further away.

It just looks like classic Nitrogen toxicity. Dark leaves and clawing. Yes I agree though it should be easy and it isn't at all

 

[siftedunity]

Gaius my man ,i totally agree ,i used same formula for 20 odd years then wack from nowhere ,crap after crap grow(5 years ) ,so change this change that ,blame everything ,,whats going wrong ,new metres ,new food ,new medium ,clean and restart ,new lamps ,a new tent ,blame the bloke down the road and his dog ,the mrs is poisoning them , you would not believe how irritating and soul destroying these problems can be ,,all the effort and then wheres me buds ,from 26 oz a metre down to 6 , i nearly went back to basics and grew in soil ,thought NO,,it has worked all these years lets figure it out ,,realised my water was shit and started cleaning it up ,grows are now back on track and me and the mrs talking again lol

Glad the Mrs is finally off the hook! can't even blame her because she's not in contact with them.
Yeah has its soul destroying for sure.

Hopefully not off gassing. I don't even use tents. Both locations were plasterboard rooms and I don't use glues or anything like that near my plants.
And the floor here are wooden floors as I put a acoustic layer and put chipboard flooring over the top. Always had the same flooring so not suspect of that.

 

[siftedunity]

i blamed off gassing too ,2 new tents proved me wrong

This is a reason I don't use tents. I prefer a purpose built room if it can be done. I would use them if I didn't have an alternative though. But I wouldn't have a clue which ones are made from safe inert plastics..

 

[siftedunity]

Ro unit should be here tomorrow. I will take some pictures now and post them up tomorrow. And hopefully in a few weeks they would have turned around.

 

[OldCoolSativa]

Hello man, ok...I use canna Coco straight out of the bag, it is apparently pre charged and buffered. And rinsed. I've used it pretty much since my first coco grows. Yup you get bad batches but like stoney says, its very unlikely its one batch since I've bought from different sources and over different time periods.

You're premise is that Canna coco you are using is fine out of the bag.
When diagnosing tricky problems, you need to check your premises.

I hope the RO system cures your problem.

 

[gaiusmarius]

You're premise is that Canna coco you are using is fine out of the bag.
When diagnosing tricky problems, you need to check your premises.

I hope the RO system cures your problem.

he has tried multiple new batches of coco with no difference.

 

[Broggemann]

Plain and simple:
You can overwater coco.

I had exactly the same problems, but in my case the pH climbed instead of falling down.
But I also had n-toxicity at very low ppms, couldnt figure out the problem for years!
One thing that got my attention though, problems started as soon as I began multifeeding.

The more I read online on forums, the more certain I was that I might just not water enough, maybe I should start multifeeding earlier or feed even more often.

As I watered less, let the coco dry out between waterings (not to the point of total dryness, of course), the problems went away.

So, I know that these debate will be going on FOREVER, but I found my answer: yes, you can.

 

[makeitfunky]

Plain and simple:

The more I read online on forums, the more certain I was that I might just not water enough, maybe I should start multifeeding earlier or feed even more often.

This is exactly my problem I keep reading about multi feeds and upping it. I’m going to try letting the coco dry more.

I’ve gone for 6.5l pots and I’m going for large ish plants 5-6oz.

Did you manage to get it working still with small pots or did you go a bit bigger?

 

[dansbuds]

Plain and simple:
You can overwater coco.

I had exactly the same problems, but in my case the pH climbed instead of falling down.
But I also had n-toxicity at very low ppms, couldnt figure out the problem for years!
One thing that got my attention though, problems started as soon as I began multifeeding.

The more I read online on forums, the more certain I was that I might just not water enough, maybe I should start multifeeding earlier or feed even more often.

As I watered less, let the coco dry out between waterings (not to the point of total dryness, of course), the problems went away.

So, I know that these debate will be going on FOREVER, but I found my answer: yes, you can.

it all depends on how established your root system is ! no , you cant feed multiple times a day right after transplanting . but give them 2 weeks to fill out the pots with roots & multiple feeds work great ! it also depends on HOW MUCH your feeding each time too ! you don't want the pots constantly saturated ..... just wet .

 

[gaiusmarius]

to me multiple feeding is the way to go, nothing simpler or easier to keep dialed in.

all you do, as been said, is let the clone establish a good root system, before you plant it in the multiple feed set up. root them and then transplant the plug to a cube, wait 7 to 14 days for the cube to be fully rooted with roots growing out the bottom, then place it in the multiple feed coco set up and they will take off like a rocket.

the only time i let my coco get dry is if i notice fungus gnat larva in the coco. or by accident if i'm late filling the tank

 

[p0opstlnksal0t]

This sounds like a simple issue. Your ppm doubles in the runoff water correct... This means your coco is drying out and salts are building up/binding with the coco. You need to flush and start watering more often during the day.

 

[Broggemann]

it all depends on how established your root system is ! no , you cant feed multiple times a day right after transplanting . but give them 2 weeks to fill out the pots with roots & multiple feeds work great ! it also depends on HOW MUCH your feeding each time too ! you don't want the pots constantly saturated ..... just wet .

I didnt feed multiple times right after transplanting.
And I grow 3-4 ounce plants in two gallon AirPots with one watering a day.
Does this sound like a underdeveloped rootsystem?

Multifeeding may work for you, it may work for DJM, but that doesnt mean, it's working for everybody!
The same way with ppm-leves, some people may be able to feed at a higher rate than others - there are just too many factors that influence this.