Grow room automation...Whatcha think???

[Guest]

pgtekin, I took the liberty of rearranging your wish list a bit and added comments.

Stand alone, autonomous functions
controllers (closed loop)
--CO2
--pH
--TDS
-----Nutrient,N,P,K doser
--Temperature
Timers (open loop) no feedback
Analog inputs
Digital outputs


Functions already available w/ PC and automation software (MisterHouse?).
a phone dialer unit (allows system to call user's mobile/local home if emg)
Software reqs are:
1) Can read all analog/digital sensors.
2) Accurate Multi-timer control
3) Single/Group Replay control
5) According Pre-defined Schemes, system can monitor and control whole devices automatically. And these schemes can be added, modified, and erased.
7) communicate with internet and allows remote monitor and remote control. Meanwhile, the unit can provide more elaborate automatic control services: e.g., like high-end PLC, you can online degroup/re-group some devices setting to get more flexible and powerful functions.
4) Home Automatic Security Patrol Service
8) Provides online Video surveillance service (the video streaming is encrypted, hard to break). This one is already available under Linux. Can also be done w/ Windows using secure server.

9) Embedded Watchdog can keep system 7X24 running.
two watchdogs for Embedded PC and ADSL Modem/Hub/Switcher.
(SOHO Modems are not stable for 7X24hrs).

Functional status of the embedded controllers are to be monitored, along w/ loss of coms.
A watchdog for the network gear is probably better done through a PC.

6) Communicated with Embedded PC/High-level DSP Unit.
The high-level computer (x86platform or DSP platform) unit can smart-control system based finite states machine algorithms and automatic control theory.
Peer2Peer Communication support.
8/4 video channels switcher (for remote security usage)

I'm not sure it's worth building a video switcher. I use this one.http://www.controlanything.com/Merc...reen=PROD&Store_Code=NCD&Product_Code=ASELPRO Which works nicely, and I feel the price is right.
Can you be more specific about what peer2peer means to you?
The intent, is that in a system using a central controller/PC, the autonomous devices can/will be controlled by the central controller. I don't expect any DSP devices. I can't think of anything that would require the speed of a DSP and have never designed w/ one. Do you have a specific application in mind that would need a DSP? Any higher level math can be done by the PC, but I can't think of anything that might need to operate in real time. Aside from the process controllers, almost everything I can think of could afford to be operated w/ a delay of minutes. Timing functions implemented w/ the PC will have a tendency to have better long term accuracy than short term accuracy because of OS processes. Timing w/ the stand alone devices will have bette short term accuracy, but long term accuracy will probably have to be corrected by the PC. It may or may not be necessary to add a RTC module. Is this still close to what you want?

 

[pgtekin]

Thanks sygh, I guess this wish list can cover most people's needs. More new idea need be added?
For 8X4 video switcher, use MCU to do can cut down our cost. If embedded video switcher be developed in this project, the cost will be up $50. Save 50%.
I think 4 video channels can reach my needs.
I can monitor 4 real-time videos - get more info.
Growing Plants, Window, Gate, Outsdie view.
The system should have pan tilt zoom(PTZ) functions for CCTV surveillance.
I think most of us will agree:
We need a all-in-one hardware system to extend application capability and cut down hardware cost meantime.
For over 10amp power switch, Instead of relay, I prefer to using AC electromagnetic contactors.
AC Contactors are more stable than relays.
And total of hardware (MCU standalone system, not incl PC) should cost me about US$400~600.
Is it reasonable cost?

P.S., P2P communication is very important for remote control/surveillance. Because most ADSL users get dynamic IP address. We must support P2P mode, otherwise, two machine can't talk togeth. You can host a static IP server and let it as Main Communication Center to control all net stuffs. However, is it efficient? Skype is using P2P tech to manage its huge online chats.
For the video surveillance, I would like using H.264 codec as Video compression codec. Based on H.264, a video streaming bitrate (for a CIF, 25fps format) only reach 60~100kpbs. That means you only need 960kpbs~1.6mpbs to get 16 channels living video images. For an ADSL user, it works (ADSL's downstream bitrate is around 1~2mpb if providers can give you 2MPBS survice). This video bitrate performance can give some serious growers great helps if he/she grow 4~6 growrooms at different locations.
All data should be encrypted because Goverment monitor all of the internet.
Encryption Algorithms should be custom-made or public-open but hard to broken such as RSA for Stream ciphers. http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/node.asp?id=2257
I don't want to give other guys an easy door to enter my room virtually.

 

[BakedBeans]

Funny that I stumbled across this thread. I have been thinking about grow automation myself but I lack the EE skills; I can solder stuff and fix traces, but circuit design is beyond me.

Here's the real kicker: I'm a Unix/Linux sysadmin and I've been using Perl since at least 1995. It hasn't been up there in my frequently used skills in the last few years, but it's like riding a bike.

I have a grow project looming on the horizon and this type of a system, with at least some of the functionality would be ideal. I just don't have all of the information on the probes and electronics. That was the main reason I didn't go further with my design ideas. I can write and modify code though, no sweat. I was thinking that the world needed an open source Grow controller software stack. It would be a great alternative to the expensive units on the market, especially if you could make it modular. Not everyone will need everything. In our case, we want to go aquaponic and hydro-solution dosing will not be a requirement, though fish-feeding might!


I have several large projects I'm trying to get through at work. If I can do that in a reasonable amount of time, I might be willing to donate coding skills if someone else could help out with project management and electronics.


This sounds exciting!

 

[imnotcrazy]

I think if video were to be involved, it should be ONLY for security OUTSIDE growrooms. Even if you have a secure datastream (encryption, etc) video evidence is MUCH more incriminating that just having video feed from outside doors. As for the other data PH/TDS etc you could even code this info, for example A = temp, B = PH, C =TDS. A few video feeds of building entrances and the other coded data should be enough to keep a grow going w/ minimal hands on.

 

[2buds]

Awesome-watching all these minds work.Just fuggin awesome. Go fellas!

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

I have not been hiding.... doing a lot of reading.

I have been doing some system design. Here are some thoughts on analog inputs.

The remaining inputs are really just on/off conditions which are easily enough handled.

As to system outputs... those also are yes/no conditions to trigger a process (i.e. lights/fans/AC/humidifier....).

All these are well within the parameters of a PC/serial port/ 1-wire systems. The software is free.

Baked Beans, welcome and your expertise is surely welcome. I too am not an EE but remember enough to be extremely dangerous.

The system I invision is scalable. I am totally hooked on 1-wire...seems to make so much sense.

Sygh, as to have a subcontroller utilizing the picaxe chips would lend some redundency to the system should the PC crash. It occurs to me that if there is a total system power failure nothing can be done.

Anyway, here are some general thoughts I had regarding 1-wire and available chips.

These are very priliminary so any inputs would be welcome.




minds_I

 

[Guest]

Glad to have you here bakedbeans. You sound like the guy to work w/ misterhouse. Have you taken a quick look yet? I also have an interest in eventually going aquaponic. I have a series of 3 decorative ponds, and ducks that I'm planning on using. I'm also trying to get together a breeding group of redclaw crayfish and tilapia. Have you run across www.backyardaquaponics.com. Relatively low tech, but some neat ideas and there are a lot of real operating systems described. Linux would probably be the OS of choice for someone technically savvy enough to maintain the OS. However, I think most people are going to want to use the Windows version, which introduces a bit of complication. It should be real bad though, and the MisterHouse community seems to be active enough.

Looks good minds_I. I hadn't realized integrated instrumentation amps had gotten so cheap. The 1-wire stuff is pretty neat. A little more expensive than more conventional I/O, but much more convenient. I've been using xAP http://www.xapautomation.org/wiki/index.php/xAP_Home_Automation_protocol to handle the 1-wire stuff. Also very convenient. Changes are broadcast. Makes for a bit of network traffic, but not bad. A router should keep the broadcasts secure. MisterHouse already handles xAP. The one concern I have is that w/ surface mount devices, the average person that intends to DIY their system will have some problems assembling the units w/o the proper equipment. Assembling w/ a conventional soldering iron could be done, but a PITA.

pgteking, it's way too early to even guess at prices right now. Power handling devices (relays, contactors, SSRs etc.) are going to drive the price up. Unless prices have changed considerably since I last looked, a good relay can easily cost $12 and up apiece. W/ just 10 devices, that's $120 w/o considering any other components. I'm not sure if anyone is going to be interested in sourcing kits or assembled boards. No one has mentioned being interested yet. Hint, hint. It's possible to organize group buys, which could drop the cost of components if we can get enough participants. Maybe free boards and electronics for whoever organizes buys as an incentive?

This project is feeling better and better. Hopefully we can keep the momentum up.

 

[pgtekin]

pgteking, it's way too early to even guess at prices right now. Power handling devices (relays, contactors, SSRs etc.) are going to drive the price up. Unless prices have changed considerably since I last looked, a good relay can easily cost $12 and up apiece. W/ just 10 devices, that's $120 w/o considering any other components. I'm not sure if anyone is going to be interested in sourcing kits or assembled boards. No one has mentioned being interested yet. Hint, hint. It's possible to organize group buys, which could drop the cost of components if we can get enough participants. Maybe free boards and electronics for whoever organizes buys as an incentive?

This project is feeling better and better. Hopefully we can keep the momentum up.

One of my friends is working at HongKong for a famous US HW ele company as Asia Buyer manager. I could ask him. He told me lots of Asia market's trick and real price. So amazing, e.g. An Industrial PC's local price is around US$200 (FOB), and final US/Canada price is up to US$999.00 when it arrive States. Maybe, he will be interested at this project as buyer. But I am not sure. His buying amount normally is 1K at least. Otherwise, he can't bargain with Asia Business guys. Anyway, I will send an email to him. Hope can get quick reply
His price should be amazing: A 10 amp relay only cost US$6 (possible).
More cheaper is PCB price, only 1/3 of US local price. He told me that 90% PCB (1/2 multi-layer PCB) are made in China. Very cheap, and very good quality. Almost all of FCB (flexible circuit board, for notepad, cellphone etc high-end ele equipments) is made in China too. Their price and quality was no one can beat down. The labor fee is so low.
Maybe, we can get some benefits from them if we can get a FOB price. Save 30%~50% cost I guess.

 

[Guest]

One of my friends is working at HongKong for a famous US HW ele company as Asia Buyer manager. I could ask him. He told me lots of Asia market's trick and real price. So amazing, e.g. An Industrial PC's local price is around US$200 (FOB), and final US/Canada price is up to US$999.00 when it arrive States. Maybe, he will be interested at this project as buyer. But I am not sure. His buying amount normally is 1K at least. Otherwise, he can't bargain with Asia Business guys. Anyway, I will send an email to him. Hope can get quick reply

If you can get something going, that would be great. However, keep in mind that price breaks normally come w/ volume purchases/sales. Another way that that works is to promise purchasing "X" number of pieces per year. If the quantity isn't reached, you pay a penalty which effectively takes away your price break. I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm, but I'd be really surprised if there were even a 100 people interested in purchasing the first year of production. However, I've been wrong before, and will probably be wrong again before I kick the bucket.

 

[Guest]

Minds_I, you may be interested in this. http://www.phanderson.com/stamp/onewire.html A preprogrammed pic set up to interface 7 1-wire devices to a picaxe or basic stamp. At $8 it seems to be a bargain. Also some sample code for picaxe interfacing. http://www.phanderson.com/picaxe/picaxe.html

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

Been busy and must admit I have not put much time into the project.

I did find this while reading other threads thought this can be incorperated into the systema as well....afterall if the system is not scaleable..then whats the point.

I am going to pot this and then go looking for co2 actuation valves (Silonoid).
http://www.edinst.com/telaireventostat8001.htm

minds_I

 

[bartender187]

Great thread, way over my head... but goood reading. : )

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,
Sygh, I am looking into the ds2480-this chip will be the workhorse. As I mentioned, this is so plug and play. In a few days, I will have a reatively complete conceptual diagram of the input side.

What I am not up to speed on is serial communication. Specifically the timing aspects and how acomplish them on the PC side. I wish to use the PC built-in autonomos function for bus commuications. Let the machine worriy about hte timing aspects.

Sygh, you wanted to incorperate the picaxe chips for subsystem automation should the PC crash. Well a number of these MAXIM/Dallas chips have alarm functions that can be triggered. These mostly are temperature related. In the case of the A/D converters there are voltage level triggers as well.

Beyond the conceptual design, more thought needs to be put into meeting 1-wire reliabitiy requirements.

To this end, I wish to explore using a 2-wire system (dat, +5V) just because of the reliabiity factor. The system run will be small for this project and you could use parasite power but that may preclude autonomuos subsytems. With a dedicated power circuit there is more flexibility and greater reliablity.

Anyway, your thoughts.

minds_I

PS...been looking to pick up an osilliscope....I may try and build an christmas light show with some of these chips controlled by my computer.

 

[Guest]

I'm using a DS9097U-A serial adapter w/ 1-wire drivers from here http://www.maxim-ic.com/products/ibutton/software/tmex/index.cfm I'm using xAP as the communication protocol between the computer reading the 1-wire devices and my computer w/ the automation software (homeseer). A xAP software hub is installed on the PC w/ the serial adapter, and any other PCs on the network that you want to grab the data. I use homeseer to act on the 1-wire data.

Misterhouse will communicate directly through a 1-wire serial adapter. This page should help. http://www.solarbugs.com/?page_id=19

 

[Guest]

Did we die here?

 

[elky d]

Is this what you mean. This is my version that I built 2 years ago.

Labjack
Relay switch board 8x10a(240v) DIY kit
20a Fuse

Then all i did was attach my monitors and sensors to the inputs, plug in the pumps, fans and soliods. Plug it into my old unwanted PII computer, run DAQFactory and volla.

Just in the process of rebuilding a new grow space. Haven't run the system for 16months due to no grow fun. But worked like a charm. Cost me no more than $200 plus the Telair.

 

[Guest]

The labjack is definitely a nice device. In fact I have one also, but we can go far beyond what a labjack will do. It also seems that after a while you think of other things that would be nice to monitor/control. Not necessarily growing related. I'm up to more than 22 temperature inputs right now and about another 10 analog inputs, not counting the labjack. I think what we're shooting for is a series of intelligent controls or I/O devices that can operate stand alone and networked. If the bulk of the devices could be built w/ the same basic programmable components, parts costs could be reduced by bulk buys. You could keep a couple of devices on hand as spares, and flash the program memory to turn them into specific controls. A collaborative effort would help cut down re-inventing common processes and efforts. If we can get a sustained effort going, we could go further and do more collectively vs individually. Overall it's a big job, but if enough people become involved it could go relatively quickly.

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

No dying yet.

I have been busy and have not put much time into the conceptual design. But I have come up with a preliminary concept.




I hope you all can read it.

Sygh, I was looking at the DS 2405 addressable switch...looks quite promising to me. But rememebr I am not an EE.

Anyway, Sygh, I wanted to speak t you about autonimous operation. Specifically, the only practical application is if the computer wnet down for some reason beyond a power failure. If the power fails....whats going to drive the circuits and more important, whats going to power the grow room equipment?

Are you thinking if the specific addreassable sensor is dropped from the bus the sensor would under internal programming control the corresponding equipment? That is, it the ambient temp sensor is loss on the bus then if the temp exceeds a sensor preset the sensor would trigger the fan to come on?

Anyway, Sygh, why 22 temp sensors?

minds_I

 

[Guest]

Everything is going to fail eventually, given enough time. I trust a central control computer to handle relatively low priority tasks, plus monitoring and alarms. When your computer crashes, autonomous controllers give you time to get things working again. Embedded controllers, largely because of their simplicity, typically have longer MTBFs than PCs. Embedded devices, because of their low power consumption, usually have better survival rates after unexpected power events. Embedded devices don't need a computer. After a power outage, restarts are normally faster and easier w/ an embedded control. If a computer dies hard, it could take a week to restore operation.

I monitor temperatures in each room, as well as outdoor temperatures at the four quadrants of the house. Before it get hot enough for A/C, I cycle window fans for cooling. I monitor the HP and LP central a/c lines, attic temperature, greenhouse temperature at 3 levels to control a circulating fan. Cabinet temperatures at 2 levels in two chambers. The normal growing temps, root zone, canopy, reservoir, and mom and flowering chambers. Plus kegerator, and fermentation chamber temps. Plus some other odds and ends.

I'm saying, where applicable, add the embedded controller and let it handle the basic function. Use the computer to control the controller for more intricate operations.

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

Sygh, as you know, most of the Dallas chips have programmable alarm/trigger thresholds which can be querried for alarm condition.

Now I know everything is going to fail but PC's have a fairly robust MTBF as well. adding embedded controllers seems problematic.

http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/2420

Your application incorperates more subsystem intrgation of micropicsand will increase teh complexity of the system would you not agree. However, A redundant master say between the CPU and the master bus controller may serve the same purpose and you can keep the micropics to a minimum while gaining the redundancy.


You know I am into the diy aspects of this. While I lack the necessary tools and equipment...my local JC does have them and I just might take a class just for access and a refresher in circuits.

Anyway, I have been giving a smoke alarm some thought and it is complete too simple.. utilize and existing S.A. and trigger of the horn? When the alarm triggers the horn.just trigger of the voltage. Simple enough.

As to teh kegerator and the fermentaton temps...absolutely control of those is a must. I have brewed beer a few times (Mr. Beer)...wow.




Also, where I fall short is in circuit design itself...specifically, the necessary pullup or pulldown resisitors, capacitors, diodes, transitiors. Remember... just the conceptual guy here.

I hope you can read the conceptual diagram I have above. I love the 1-wire concept and it allows 64 devices per line. WIth multiplexing more channels can be added for the really big systems.

Anyway, I look forward to your thoughts. Perhaps a basic diagram will help me understand better.

minds_I

PS: Sygh, any ideas on fan variable speed control. The off the shelf manual dial (variable) solid state spped controls might be hackable. After all, I am sure the dial rotates a variable resistor. Having a variable speed fan provides more stable temp swings and greater environmental control.