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greek landrace strains
- Thread starter zerozero
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It's interesting how a couple years ago when I'd ask Greeks about strains they'd say cultivation basically ended in the 1930s. Then in the last year all of a sudden there's pictures popping up everywhere, showing 3 or 4 varieties of 'Greek landrace'. We've been over this before but Greece has always been a nation of hashish smugglers so it's always an interesting topic.
The country that is Greece now has always been a region of hashish trade and consumption, situated between the hashish fields of Lebanon and the hashish smokers of Europe, Istanbul, Egypt, and the rest of North Africa. Before WW1 the countries that we think of as Greece and Turkey were intermixed. Muslims and Christians on both sides of the borderline. Asia Minor, which is Turkey now, had millions of Greek Christians. The destruction of the Ottoman Empire and partition was very messy, genocide, persecution, religious conflict, a lot of hashish smokers and probably growers got mixed up in it all.
The 'Turks' were expelled from the Greek side, and the 'Greeks' were expelled from the Turkish side although they were ethnically, really, the 'same' people who had been living there for hundreds of years. A very large number of the Greeks that were expelled and re-settled in the cities of Greece were hashish smokers, brought their traditional habits and music with them. This is when rebetika music was created, the people who had lost their traditional homes and had become poverty stricken migrants brought the one thing that couldn't be physically taken, music. A lot of the music was about hashish smoking and loneliness.
How many of these people were hashish farmers before they were expelled is unknown but they weren't growing ganja after they moved because they had no land. The hashish they were smoking was imported from Turkey and Lebanon. So when you ask, 'What is a Greek landrace like?' The answer is most likely Turkish and Lebanese.
In the 16-19th century, before Greek independence, the Ottomans were cultivating hashish plants for their huge consumption in Istanbul and other large cities throughout the empire. The seeds for these plants were either the native hemp varieties or hash varieties from Turkey and Lebanon.
We know very little about Turkish strains, the government cracked down hard on the hashish trade. There are still hash plants and hemp grown in Turkey but it's usually high in CBD, or at least fairly low in THC. There's a few cultivars available but Turkey is a big country I don't think the strains we see in the West are necessarily the best examples of Turkish hashplants.
We do know a lot about Lebanese landraces and that's what the old time Greek landraces would be like. I'm not sure if the Greek landrace types in this thread are 'Lebanese-like' or 'Turkish-like'. I hinted earlier that I doubt these are really Greek landrace, I think they're probably 'Greek heirloom'. Grown in much smaller numbers and with greater selection then is used with landraces.
I'm guessing the oldest ones were brought by stoners and hippies in the 70s and 80s, plenty of time to adapt to local conditions. Either from Turkish and Lebanese hashplants or from Europe. Maybe some Moroccan influence too. I wish Phylos was reliable enough to test some of these. What about the people who have posted pics? What are these Kalamata and other strains most similar to?
Islands are always great places to grow ganja, they're isolated and everyone knows everyone. Some of the islands are known for ganja culture I'd guess there's heirloom types that have been grown on certain islands for 30 or 40 years. Before that Greece had an authoritarian police state style dictatorship and anti-ganja laws were heavily enforced. Any grows from that period would most likely be by organized crime that had bribed government officials and army officers. It's tantalizing but I doubt there's any strains left from the exiles from Asia Minor or the Ottoman Empire days. But it would be awesome if there was!
The country that is Greece now has always been a region of hashish trade and consumption, situated between the hashish fields of Lebanon and the hashish smokers of Europe, Istanbul, Egypt, and the rest of North Africa. Before WW1 the countries that we think of as Greece and Turkey were intermixed. Muslims and Christians on both sides of the borderline. Asia Minor, which is Turkey now, had millions of Greek Christians. The destruction of the Ottoman Empire and partition was very messy, genocide, persecution, religious conflict, a lot of hashish smokers and probably growers got mixed up in it all.
The 'Turks' were expelled from the Greek side, and the 'Greeks' were expelled from the Turkish side although they were ethnically, really, the 'same' people who had been living there for hundreds of years. A very large number of the Greeks that were expelled and re-settled in the cities of Greece were hashish smokers, brought their traditional habits and music with them. This is when rebetika music was created, the people who had lost their traditional homes and had become poverty stricken migrants brought the one thing that couldn't be physically taken, music. A lot of the music was about hashish smoking and loneliness.
How many of these people were hashish farmers before they were expelled is unknown but they weren't growing ganja after they moved because they had no land. The hashish they were smoking was imported from Turkey and Lebanon. So when you ask, 'What is a Greek landrace like?' The answer is most likely Turkish and Lebanese.
In the 16-19th century, before Greek independence, the Ottomans were cultivating hashish plants for their huge consumption in Istanbul and other large cities throughout the empire. The seeds for these plants were either the native hemp varieties or hash varieties from Turkey and Lebanon.
We know very little about Turkish strains, the government cracked down hard on the hashish trade. There are still hash plants and hemp grown in Turkey but it's usually high in CBD, or at least fairly low in THC. There's a few cultivars available but Turkey is a big country I don't think the strains we see in the West are necessarily the best examples of Turkish hashplants.
We do know a lot about Lebanese landraces and that's what the old time Greek landraces would be like. I'm not sure if the Greek landrace types in this thread are 'Lebanese-like' or 'Turkish-like'. I hinted earlier that I doubt these are really Greek landrace, I think they're probably 'Greek heirloom'. Grown in much smaller numbers and with greater selection then is used with landraces.
I'm guessing the oldest ones were brought by stoners and hippies in the 70s and 80s, plenty of time to adapt to local conditions. Either from Turkish and Lebanese hashplants or from Europe. Maybe some Moroccan influence too. I wish Phylos was reliable enough to test some of these. What about the people who have posted pics? What are these Kalamata and other strains most similar to?
Islands are always great places to grow ganja, they're isolated and everyone knows everyone. Some of the islands are known for ganja culture I'd guess there's heirloom types that have been grown on certain islands for 30 or 40 years. Before that Greece had an authoritarian police state style dictatorship and anti-ganja laws were heavily enforced. Any grows from that period would most likely be by organized crime that had bribed government officials and army officers. It's tantalizing but I doubt there's any strains left from the exiles from Asia Minor or the Ottoman Empire days. But it would be awesome if there was!
Thanks rev ^^. I am no expert but will give an opinion. While the bulk of growing was done in Lebanon and Turkey, I expect in the mountains of Greece they may have worked some magic as well, independent of them.
So the idea of a landrace different and better is not so far fetched to me. Hawaii had heirlooms within years of pot being introduced to it. Other than that guy that claims Hawaii had pot there for centuries, no one seems to confirm that. Lots dispute that early strains in Hawaii were anything special. Those that smoked them often disagree. I had one special strain(trippy as hell and intense) and the other not so much.
Lots of mythology with heirlooms and I have had more misses than hits chasing these tales. Greece is famous for myths.
So the idea of a landrace different and better is not so far fetched to me. Hawaii had heirlooms within years of pot being introduced to it. Other than that guy that claims Hawaii had pot there for centuries, no one seems to confirm that. Lots dispute that early strains in Hawaii were anything special. Those that smoked them often disagree. I had one special strain(trippy as hell and intense) and the other not so much.
Lots of mythology with heirlooms and I have had more misses than hits chasing these tales. Greece is famous for myths.
interesting read no expert here but been lucky enough to smoke the weed down in kalamata when visiting a friend that lives there im a heavy smoker and hard to please and i was very impressed with the kalamata it was lime green sticky as hell all sativa all mood enhancing great party weed it afffected everybody in our large group the same ,i guess as a general discripition its like c99 were hash and ganja plants have been bred into one, when i asked about its backround they told me it was handed down thruogh generations from there hash growing days the resin content certainly indicates that but the effect is high quality sativa better than any lebanese hash ive ever had and we used to get lots of it in uk if i were to guess i would say maybe oldtime lebenese hash plant or maybe columbian hybrids bred from same bred into a strain for many generations ,its definatley selectivly bred not wild landrace someone else recently mentioned a columbian cross like this had been done elswere ,the laws are still extremyly strict in greece an area were we smoked a joint was raided by armed police mintes after we left and my friends warned me not to bring my own as to the situation there the kalamata i had showed no red genes at all ive only seen the red color in albanain weed which is sold in greece for tourists etc they are also like ganja, hash hybrid type plants of much lower quality with occasional nice bits ,lots of honey hash and dark fruit flavours but nothing of the quality of the kalamata which was more honey pineapple i did ask my friend a few times for seeds but could see they didnt really want to let em out so gave up pesterring,,,,,, if it aint broke ,,
Well, that's kind of the point of the history lesson. There aren't any Greek landrace strains. There are some heirloom strains but probably from the 70s and 80s or later.
There were excellent Hawaiian strains in the 60s and 70s. Great SE Asian and Columbian types, later crossed with Afghan to make super hybrids. A lot of great stuff brought back from the SE Asian wars. I've heard enough first hand accounts to believe it and grew a purple Hawaiian that was the best. The strains disappeared in the late 70s, early 80s due to helicopters, they were gigantic plants. Maybe a few threads remain in a few strains floating around but they're mostly extinct. Greece and Hawaii are examples of how prohibition destroys strains and culture. Another history lesson, but Greece suffered terribly in WW2 and in the civil war right after. Then 30 years of brutal dictatorship. Check out the film Z made in 1969, it's fictional but based on real life stuff that happened in 1963. The US and NATO, CIA, played a big role in suppressing democracy. Repeating myself but it just killed the cannabis scene. The only stuff was hashish painstakingly smuggled from places east.
Of course maybe on Mt Olympus or one of the islands Odysseus visited the Gods kept a landrace strain going through that time. It's not impossible. Dictators and soldiers can be bribed. I didn't go into Albanian cannabis, don't know about it really but I'd be interested in the history there. Might be some old hempy landrace hash strains or maybe some good old time stuff very similar to Greek.
I'd really love it if someone went to some of these places, SE Asia, Columbia, Afghanistan, India, Nepal, Hawaii, that had thriving ganja cultures in the 50s and 60s. Find some real old time growers and grill them about what the hell they were growing. Before they die off if they haven't already.
if the greeks are happy with the situation who are we to complain im pretty sure they dont care what weed like lol
ramse
Well-known member
the Kalamata Red, from the descriptions I read seems to me very very similar to the Italian landrace / heirloom "Calabrese rossa" aka "Calabrisella" (Red Calabrian), unfortunately now extinct
the description of the red buds, the particular High, the name itself... really looks like his sister.
It was mainly cultivated in the Aspromonte mountains in large plantations with tens of thousands of specimens... the spread of Dutch hybrids and the fall of communism in Albania (and the massive cultivations that followed) led to its disappearance
The historical memory (or perhaps the legend?) tells that it is derived from the plants cultivated in the early 1900s by professor Biagio Longo at the botanical garden of Naples after receiving over 200 Indian cannabis seeds from Calcutta. Later they were also sent to other Italian institutes.
An interesting Italian landrace (dioecious, used for fiber/seed) was the "Nana napoletana" (extinct) cultivated above all in the Campania area.
According to research and experiments carried out in 1887 by physician Raffaele Valieri on the therapeutic value of local hemp grown in the Campania region, compared to imported cannabis indica (at the time it was present in the official Italian pharmacopoeia) . Valieri had come to the conclusion that the phenomena of local hemp are identical to those
of the cannabis indica, concluding that in the prescription of the local hemp it is necessary to double the dose... although he emphasized the qualitative variability of imported materials, placing the need for standardized pharmaceutical production.
sorry oops... I went a lot off topic
the description of the red buds, the particular High, the name itself... really looks like his sister.
It was mainly cultivated in the Aspromonte mountains in large plantations with tens of thousands of specimens... the spread of Dutch hybrids and the fall of communism in Albania (and the massive cultivations that followed) led to its disappearance
The historical memory (or perhaps the legend?) tells that it is derived from the plants cultivated in the early 1900s by professor Biagio Longo at the botanical garden of Naples after receiving over 200 Indian cannabis seeds from Calcutta. Later they were also sent to other Italian institutes.
An interesting Italian landrace (dioecious, used for fiber/seed) was the "Nana napoletana" (extinct) cultivated above all in the Campania area.
According to research and experiments carried out in 1887 by physician Raffaele Valieri on the therapeutic value of local hemp grown in the Campania region, compared to imported cannabis indica (at the time it was present in the official Italian pharmacopoeia) . Valieri had come to the conclusion that the phenomena of local hemp are identical to those
of the cannabis indica, concluding that in the prescription of the local hemp it is necessary to double the dose... although he emphasized the qualitative variability of imported materials, placing the need for standardized pharmaceutical production.
sorry oops... I went a lot off topic
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About greek cannabis & hashish
El Supersativa
Member
Wow! Very interesting! I smoked that calabrian in the seventies!
Hempy McNoodle
Well-known member
I bought some greek landrace seeds from Tropical Seed Co. They claim it dates back up to 100 years. Does anyone know any additional info?
funkyhorse
Well-known member
I hope this helps
'Athina Sativa' given away as freebies a while back by fat rasta @ sanni3s
Story goes he wanted to buy some seeds from these greek growers but they decided not to sell them as its family heirloom
He buys couple oz from them and ends up with seeds anyway by accident 14 seeds or something
Fat rasta reproduced the strain in greenhouse and donates to sanni3s... free 5 packs with sanni3s orders
opengrow.com has a few threads about it but I cant remember where that story is exactaly...it may be from another forum
https://www.opengrow.com/topic/51358-fatrastas-athina-landrace-greek-or-not/
(this is greek family heirloom not really landrace)
Thats a very strange starting place for pros like TSC
It is something that looks interesting but you think they could get more than one 5 pk to start with..lol
Thats a great looking strain and I guess it only started with 14 seeds or whatever fatrasta found in the first place......
Thanks to fatrasta for making these available... see how the testing goes for TSC seems like a strong plant!
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OregonBorn
Active member
Greek Kalamata red is still around. It has been grown in the north hills as a landrace for decades. It is just resurfacing now as laws get looser in Greece which has licensed several medical grow operations this year.
Kalamata and Italian Calabrian are similar strains. They likely stem from an old archaic line of northern Mediterranean strains that date back far earlier than the 1930s. Like to ancient Greece in the Bronze Age, or before that even. Archeological digs are finding signs of cannabis cultivation in western and southern Europe that date back at least 6000 years. The notion that cannabis is a recent introduction to Europe from Asia is being debunked. These lines are far older than we once thought.
If you look at Phylos Galaxy you will see that Lebanese is not closely related to any other modern strains tested. Meaning it was a landrace going back long before 1930. Similar with Turkish strains tested there. No closely related strains to that either.
Kalamata and Italian Calabrian are similar strains. They likely stem from an old archaic line of northern Mediterranean strains that date back far earlier than the 1930s. Like to ancient Greece in the Bronze Age, or before that even. Archeological digs are finding signs of cannabis cultivation in western and southern Europe that date back at least 6000 years. The notion that cannabis is a recent introduction to Europe from Asia is being debunked. These lines are far older than we once thought.
If you look at Phylos Galaxy you will see that Lebanese is not closely related to any other modern strains tested. Meaning it was a landrace going back long before 1930. Similar with Turkish strains tested there. No closely related strains to that either.
There's evidence of cannabis growing in central Italy since at least the early Holocene. This is cannabis sativa spontanea, the autoflowering ancestor of hemp. The history of hemp production is ancient in Italy as well, going back to at least the Roman times. What's interesting is that there isn't the same evidence in Greece. In prehistoric times the Greeks were primarily herdsmen, not a lot of cultivation of anything. Flax was the early fiber plant, before hemp. By 500 BC the Greeks were familiar with hemp and used it for ropes, rigging, nets for catching birds and animals, but once again there isn't much evidence of cultivation. It would have been easy to obtain with their extensive trading network.
In Roman Palestine and Lebanon there's plenty of evidence of cannabis cultivation, probably going back to the Assyrians hundreds of years earlier. Drug cannabis and fiber, although hemp was never the primary fiber used in the Middle East. The Greeks were always aware of cannabis as a fiber and a drug and I'm guessing a lot of it was grown in 'Greater Greece' when Greek culture and influence extended across the Mediterranean and far into Asia after Alexander the Great.
In Roman Palestine and Lebanon there's plenty of evidence of cannabis cultivation, probably going back to the Assyrians hundreds of years earlier. Drug cannabis and fiber, although hemp was never the primary fiber used in the Middle East. The Greeks were always aware of cannabis as a fiber and a drug and I'm guessing a lot of it was grown in 'Greater Greece' when Greek culture and influence extended across the Mediterranean and far into Asia after Alexander the Great.
Hempy McNoodle
Well-known member
Thanks! That definitely helps and I appreciate the info!
Sound remarks!
Gotta love the "students" that do their h/w...not that I hate the ones that don't...
orfHello all im fatrsata, and i have send 100pcs of Athina to tropicalseeds so he can reproduce this Landrace so in a while they will be availableSound remarks!
Gotta love the "students" that do their h/w...not that I hate the ones that don't...
this is not from the 70 is older and rarer and it is Landrace not heriloom
for you that dont know these strains mixed with other genes will create F1 hybrids
blessed love to all and Jah bless
blessings to charles from tropical and ******s shop from holland
Aka opengrow
D
DNM1
