Gorilla Glue #4

[TruLuv]

I don't agree with you on the smell and taste of the gg4, the smell is off the charts. different for sure, but not weak in any way, like I said they are two totally different spectrums. but I guess you know I am prejudice on my choise

The smell of GG reminds me of an old-school funk that I haven't smelled that strong in years only hints here and there!! Yes, gsc very tasty but I prefer that dank musk over sweet IMO....Plus GG wis hands down strongee and for me thats always a plus lol

 

[Grizz]

Sorry Joesy, i didn't mean to, I just do it, this is my thing, Il stop. sorry again man, don't want to turn the thread into a breeding debate on how2glue, Il stop now,,

just fuckin with ya rick, carry on, I now you love it, I just lose you sometimes

 

[Tonygreen]

I think the way to go would be to self her then select the most similar daughter from that generation to cross back to the mum. I think 3 times will give you plants that could be considered true breeding for many of her traits and a near homozygous line.

 

[englishrick]

Sorry Joesy,, i gota say this

Ooo, Reversed Backcross, ya know I was the first on icmag to bring that discussion up ,


I agree an RBC as i call it is the best way to go in 2 moves,,but if i could only make 1 move I'd outcross

I think Chimera de-bunked 2x Backcrossing, after the first BC apparently there is no point

 

[Dr. Purpur]

Yep! Sounds like alot of work to me.
Hop to it Joesy

 

[DIDM]

Josey, do you have a favorite charity or a kid to get through college?

I'd gladly send a bunch of seeds in to give back to a good cause, not just strippers and beer and pizza

hell, make The GG#4 Foundation for Higher Education

 

[Hammerhead]

lmao that's funny that old fart aint going back to school.

Rick I just finished doing a bx1 on my seeds. I don't need to do a 2nd bx it wont reinforce traits more??

 

[Seaf0ur]

also interested in an explanation as to why multiple bx's are pointless....

 

[englishrick]

Chimera de-bunked the 2x BC years ago, he backed it up with good info too if i remember correctly. Il try to find the reference data for you guys,,,

Apparently after the first BC, all the BC work is done,,time to increase inbreeding coefficients,, the best way to do this is via selfing,,develop numerous highly homozygous lines that are first evaluated by top crossing to identify lines with good general combining ability, followed by testing specific combinations of pairs of lines to identify the very few pairs that have the potential to produce truly excellent single-cross hybrids.

Ok,, I'm done,, it's not fair to joesy,,, sorry man,,, like Forest Gump and his running,,, "i think Im gona stop now"

 

[DIDM]

also interested in an explanation as to why multiple bx's are pointless....

genetics is basically math

1+1=2
2+1=3
3+2+1=5

if back crosses are pointless crosses are pointless

and IMO today people want variety in crosses, not many folks want stabilized lines. Before when you had to hide you didn't need anything better than what you had, cause at least you had that. Well today it's a buyers market, you gotta have that fire or you are gonna be sitting on it or giving it away. Also the huge influx of customer has increased the number of bum seed companies trying to cash in, it's odd seeing first hand the evolution of a commodity from black market to main street

 

[Hammerhead]

lmao hay its was good for me im laughing over here. Thanks ER thats good info..

Im finding that different here. The Dispensary want B grade bud. the people that have tried my buds can vouch. I took the same buds that i sent in for the cup to the Dispensory here. I asked for 2800 and thats low on the scale from what im told 2800-3200.. He did not want it. then said you have any B grade you want to get rid of. Waht he is doing is buying the crap and then saling it at high prices 60$ for 1/8 of some brown Jack herer

 

[englishrick]

Ok,,,I'm defo stopping after this

Here is the supporting data


Chimera
loose cannon

Registered: Jan 2001
Posts: 960
Overgrow Sponsor

Hi Beast

you’ve just discovered the biggest myth (IMNSHO) of marijuana breeding- it is a mistake that almost EVERYONE makes (including many of the most respected breeders!).

Backcrossing will not stabilize a strain at all- it is a technique that SHOULD be used to reinforce or stabilize a particular trait, but not all of them.

For e.g.- G13 is a clone, which I would bet my life on is not true breeding for every, or even most traits- this means that it is heterozygous for these traits- it has two alleles (different versions of a gene). No matter how many times you backcross to it, it will always donate either of the two alleles to the offspring. This problem can be compounded by the fact that the original male used in the cross (in this case hashplant) may have donated a third allele to the pool- kinda makes things even more difficult!

So what does backcrossing do?
It creates a population that has a great deal of the same genes as the mother clone. From this population, if enough plants are grown, individuals can be chosen that have all the same traits as the mother, for use in creating offspring that are similar (the same maybe) as the original clone.
Another problem that can arise is this- there are three possibilities for the expression of a monogenic (controlled by one gene pair) trait.

We have dominant, recessive, and co-dominant conditions.

In the dominant condition, genotypically AA or Aa, the plants of these genotypes will look the same (will have the same phenotype, for that trait).

Recessive- aa will have a phenotype

Co-dominant- Aa- these plants will look different from the AA and the aa.

A perfect example of this is the AB blood types in humans:

Type A blood is either AA or AO
Type B blood is either BB or BO
Type AB blood is ONLY AB
Type O blood is OO.

In this case there are three alleles (notated A, B, and O respectively).

If the clone has a trait controlled by a co-dominant relationship- i.e. the clone is Aa (AB in the blood example) we will never have ALL plants showing the trait- here is why:

Suppose the clone mother is Aa- the simplest possibility is that the dad used contributes one of his alleles,
let us say A. That mean the boy being use for the first backcross is either AA or Aa. We therefore have two possibilities:

1) If he is AA- we have AA X Aa- 50% of the offspring are AA, 50% are Aa. (you can do the punnett square to prove this to yourself).

In this case only 50% of the offspring show the desired phenotype (Aa genotype)!

2) If the boy being used is Aa- we have Aa X Aa (again do the punnett square) this gives a typical F2 type segregation- 25% AA, 50% Aa, and 25% aa.
This shows that a co-dominant trait can ONLY have 50% of the offspring showing the desired trait (Aa genotype) in a backcross.

If the phenotype is controlled by a dominant condition- see example #1- all 100% show the desired phenotype, but only 50% will breed true for it.

If the phenotype is controlled by a recessive condition- see example #2- only 25% will show the desired phenotype, however if used for breeding these will all breed true if mated to another aa individual.

Now- if the original dad (hashplant) donates an 'a' allele, we only have the possibilities that the offspring, from which the backcross boy will be chosen, will be either Aa or aa.
For the Aa boy, see #2.
For the aa boy (an example of a test cross, aa X Aa) we will have:
50% aa offspring (desired phenotype), and 50% Aa offspring.

Do you see what is happening here? Using this method of crossing to an Aa clone mother, we can NEVER have ALL the offspring showing the desired phenotype! Never! Never ever ever! Never!! LOL

The ONLY WAY to have all the offspring show a Aa phenotype is to cross an AA individual with an aa individual- all of the offspring from this union will be the desired phenotype, with an Aa genotype.

Now, all of that was for a Aa genotype for the desired phenotype. It isn't this complicated if the trait is AA or aa. I hope this causes every one to re-evaluate the importance of multiple backcrosses- it just doesn't work to stabilize the trait!

Also- that was all for a monogenic trait! What if the trait is controlled by a polygenic interaction or an epistatic interaction- it gets EVEN MORE complicated? AARRGH!!!!

Really, there is no need to do more than 1 backcross. From this one single backcross, as long as we know what we are doing, and grow out enough plants to find the right genotypes, we can succeed at the goal of eventually stabilizing most, if not all of the desired traits.

The confusion arises because we don't think about the underlying biological causes of these situations- to really understand this; we all need to understand meiosis.

We think of math-e.g. 50% G13, 50% hashplant

Next generation 50% G13 x 50% g13hp or (25% G13, 25%HP)

We interpret this as an additive property:
50% G13 + 25% G13 +25% HP = 75% G13 and 25% hashplant

This is unfortunately completely false- the same theory will apply for the so called 87.%% G13 12.5% HP next generation, and the following 93.25% G13, 6.25% HP generation; we'd like it to be true as it would make stabilizing traits fairly simple, but it JUST DOESN'T work that way. The above is based on a mathematical model, which seems to make sense- but it doesn't- we ignore the biological foundation that is really at play.

I hope this was clear, I know it can get confusing, and I may not have explained it well enough- sorry if that is the case, I'll try to clear up any questions or mistakes I may have made.

Have fun everyone while making your truebreeding varieties, but just remember that cubing (successive backcrosses) is not the way to do it!
-Chimera

 

[DIDM]

Chimera de-bunked the 2x BC years ago, he backed it up with good info too if i remember correctly. Il try to find the reference data for you guys,,,

Apparently after the first BC, all the BC work is done,,time to increase inbreeding coefficients,, the best way to do this is via selfing,,develop numerous highly homozygous lines that are first evaluated by top crossing to identify lines with good general combining ability, followed by testing specific combinations of pairs of lines to identify the very few pairs that have the potential to produce truly excellent single-cross hybrids.

Ok,, I'm done,, it's not fair to joesy,,, sorry man,,, like Forest Gump and his running,,, "i think Im gona stop now"

most elite clones came from bagseed, so most likely S1

but evolution should happen past the first Bx, hence stabilizing a cross

but I have no clue about all that

 

[Cannavore]

Delete

 

[DIDM]

Ok,,,I'm defo stopping after this

Here is the supporting data


Chimera
loose cannon

Registered: Jan 2001
Posts: 960
Overgrow Sponsor

Hi Beast

you’ve just discovered the biggest myth (IMNSHO) of marijuana breeding- it is a mistake that almost EVERYONE makes (including many of the most respected breeders!).

Backcrossing will not stabilize a strain at all- it is a technique that SHOULD be used to reinforce or stabilize a particular trait, but not all of them.

For e.g.- G13 is a clone, which I would bet my life on is not true breeding for every, or even most traits- this means that it is heterozygous for these traits- it has two alleles (different versions of a gene). No matter how many times you backcross to it, it will always donate either of the two alleles to the offspring. This problem can be compounded by the fact that the original male used in the cross (in this case hashplant) may have donated a third allele to the pool- kinda makes things even more difficult!

So what does backcrossing do?
It creates a population that has a great deal of the same genes as the mother clone. From this population, if enough plants are grown, individuals can be chosen that have all the same traits as the mother, for use in creating offspring that are similar (the same maybe) as the original clone.
Another problem that can arise is this- there are three possibilities for the expression of a monogenic (controlled by one gene pair) trait.

We have dominant, recessive, and co-dominant conditions.

In the dominant condition, genotypically AA or Aa, the plants of these genotypes will look the same (will have the same phenotype, for that trait).

Recessive- aa will have a phenotype

Co-dominant- Aa- these plants will look different from the AA and the aa.

A perfect example of this is the AB blood types in humans:

Type A blood is either AA or AO
Type B blood is either BB or BO
Type AB blood is ONLY AB
Type O blood is OO.

In this case there are three alleles (notated A, B, and O respectively).

If the clone has a trait controlled by a co-dominant relationship- i.e. the clone is Aa (AB in the blood example) we will never have ALL plants showing the trait- here is why:

Suppose the clone mother is Aa- the simplest possibility is that the dad used contributes one of his alleles,
let us say A. That mean the boy being use for the first backcross is either AA or Aa. We therefore have two possibilities:

1) If he is AA- we have AA X Aa- 50% of the offspring are AA, 50% are Aa. (you can do the punnett square to prove this to yourself).

In this case only 50% of the offspring show the desired phenotype (Aa genotype)!

2) If the boy being used is Aa- we have Aa X Aa (again do the punnett square) this gives a typical F2 type segregation- 25% AA, 50% Aa, and 25% aa.
This shows that a co-dominant trait can ONLY have 50% of the offspring showing the desired trait (Aa genotype) in a backcross.

If the phenotype is controlled by a dominant condition- see example #1- all 100% show the desired phenotype, but only 50% will breed true for it.

If the phenotype is controlled by a recessive condition- see example #2- only 25% will show the desired phenotype, however if used for breeding these will all breed true if mated to another aa individual.

Now- if the original dad (hashplant) donates an 'a' allele, we only have the possibilities that the offspring, from which the backcross boy will be chosen, will be either Aa or aa.
For the Aa boy, see #2.
For the aa boy (an example of a test cross, aa X Aa) we will have:
50% aa offspring (desired phenotype), and 50% Aa offspring.

Do you see what is happening here? Using this method of crossing to an Aa clone mother, we can NEVER have ALL the offspring showing the desired phenotype! Never! Never ever ever! Never!! LOL

The ONLY WAY to have all the offspring show a Aa phenotype is to cross an AA individual with an aa individual- all of the offspring from this union will be the desired phenotype, with an Aa genotype.

Now, all of that was for a Aa genotype for the desired phenotype. It isn't this complicated if the trait is AA or aa. I hope this causes every one to re-evaluate the importance of multiple backcrosses- it just doesn't work to stabilize the trait!

Also- that was all for a monogenic trait! What if the trait is controlled by a polygenic interaction or an epistatic interaction- it gets EVEN MORE complicated? AARRGH!!!!

Really, there is no need to do more than 1 backcross. From this one single backcross, as long as we know what we are doing, and grow out enough plants to find the right genotypes, we can succeed at the goal of eventually stabilizing most, if not all of the desired traits.

The confusion arises because we don't think about the underlying biological causes of these situations- to really understand this; we all need to understand meiosis.

We think of math-e.g. 50% G13, 50% hashplant

Next generation 50% G13 x 50% g13hp or (25% G13, 25%HP)

We interpret this as an additive property:
50% G13 + 25% G13 +25% HP = 75% G13 and 25% hashplant

This is unfortunately completely false- the same theory will apply for the so called 87.%% G13 12.5% HP next generation, and the following 93.25% G13, 6.25% HP generation; we'd like it to be true as it would make stabilizing traits fairly simple, but it JUST DOESN'T work that way. The above is based on a mathematical model, which seems to make sense- but it doesn't- we ignore the biological foundation that is really at play.

I hope this was clear, I know it can get confusing, and I may not have explained it well enough- sorry if that is the case, I'll try to clear up any questions or mistakes I may have made.

Have fun everyone while making your truebreeding varieties, but just remember that cubing (successive backcrosses) is not the way to do it!
-Chimera

as far as blood type

AB is universal, so it is all of them technically

if I had 2 chickens and one was male one female, and one black and one white. If I wanted to get all white chickens the math would be pretty easy, kill the black chicks, breed the white ones to make more, rinse repeat

I'm gonna side with evolution, not Chimera

 

[OgRastaman]

[/QUOTE=oldnewfarmer;6189332]To indirectly answer a question....their was little conversation and zero details about it at the event. The place was blasting with music and making most of us deaf. Smoke or dab and move on. I really enjoyed meeting and hanging with some of you as we waited for the release. Felt good to be among some outlaws[/QUOTE]

I also was there at the cup before the cut got released. It was a definite mad house there after I got my babies of the glue and walked around back to the car I got stopped by a few haters that were running their mouth about the glue and said that its not that bomb, that its not going to place, the og is better.I even grabbed an 8th to smoke and when i tried to smoke with people at the cup they weren't believers, they turned it down for gsc or og. Weak sauce I say!! Ha to the fools and all the haters that will be asking to try the glue. Im glad I was able to get me a special part of history. Felt great to spark up a blunt of the glue during the awards show when the glue won 1st place super bad ass to all involved!! Pics of my babies coming soon. My friends in the emerald triangle will be very happy to get to run the glue this season!!

 

[SPG*]

I'm believing all this gg#4 Hype.The Thread that was closed had well over 200.000 entrants sure, and in a short time,got to be positive vibes from word of mouth...

Looking at the pics on p1and what you guys say has got me sold. And that ^ smoke

 

[SPG*]

well rick first off its good to see you , been some time since we have seen you, there is testimony after testimony about the gg4, also this past weekend shows pretty much the answer to your question. winning the cup in LA says a ton, you know as most everyone does that the strain selection there is second to none.

taste wise that's going to be up to every individual , cookies is unique and has a great taste, gg4 is more chem and sour dub funk, I have never heard anyone say they dident like it, comparing the two is hard to do, there on total opposite ends of the spectrum .

Exactly what I was gonna say but was "un sure" I'm not a Strain/gene expert but re p1 soon as I saw the gg4 I thought chem d.
Ogs pics too imoe look chem d.chem jones has more rounded tips of the leaf.
(Quite a fav, s'all)

 

[Hammerhead]

wont have any buds to shoot for awhile here's the last harvest.

 

[SPG*]

I can See only a black box on the mid left side,mate :-/

Judging by 3 post rates I've missed something has been known

"Always loved that Chem sister.Must of had it a good 2 yrs very quick to root and great vigor"