GIRL's GOT SKILLS

[Smokin Joe]

Joe what is the general height above your flowers do you try to maintain? The reason I ask is my grow room is height challenged...from flood tray bottom to ceiling is just a little over 7ft. And from the ceiling to the underside of my light is 16”. So right now I have a space of 5’8” under my lights. So with led lights like the hlg550 they are about 4” thick I could gain about a foot of space. Does this sound like enough room to use those led’s?

You do need a few inches above the 550 to move some air and keep the driver cool.
Initially you would want to dim em down and have em about 3' above the plants but you can gradually bump em up and 18" is about as close as you would want but I have had em get to about 10" and started getting top bleaching

 

[RockinRobot]

Yes qb's are a different animal. I have a 630 cmh right beside a 9 board light. The side next to o the qb's is noticeably doing better. I'll let ya know when they get further along. Also I don't know about the 315's but the qb's run way cooler than the 630's. Ya can't touch a 630 with your hand

What is the actual current draw at the wall on that 9 board light for comparison?

 

[Aspenou812]

I guess the big question will be... do they have the weight... will the plants pack on the weight like they would with a HID...

 

[Aspenou812]

Y'all have to remember... I'm in the Deep South... its crazy fing Hot here 9 months out of the year... every btu of heat and every drop of humidity have to be taken into account.. The only way to combat heat and humidity here is with AC and A Dehumidifier.... My question is a simple one... will they stand up to the quality and weight I can get off my Gavita... or another Hid.... So would the diminished returns and perhaps a slight increase in quality really impact my pocket book in a negative way... What I do know is the AC I have right now.... will cool 8 of those so could i grow more for less... For instance... I can keep 3k of mixed hids cool... that's two 4x4 and a 2x2 right 15 plants... versus having 8 trays with 8 lights and 48 plants... dose that make sense to anyone else?

 

[Aspenou812]

Is the cost of having a Balls to the walls Hid Invorment and maintaining it worth it in my climate?

 

[Buckeyebandit]

No. I did it and the cost is not affective. Never needed a dehumidifier either the ac kept it in check. Steady 50%. I was in a 6x7 room with 2 600 w sodium at that time

Is the cost of having a Balls to the walls Hid Invorment and maintaining it worth it in my climate?

 

[eebbnflow]

Is the cost of having a Balls to the walls Hid Invorment and maintaining it worth it in my climate?

The short answer is yes IMO , I read the first post . Objective being pounds this time . 1000w hps DE CMH whatever . 600w or more of H.I.D is king !

I wish I had the height to run the new CHM fixtures . LEDs are good for small veg or closet grows IMO


Ok so after reading more I’ll edt my post and say , I probably don’t need to tell that

 

[Smokin Joe]

I have run every kinda light except plasma and I used to have the mind set that led's had a place in the micro grows but not in big rooms. I don't grow in small rooms so never had a need till now. These quantum boards have changed way of thinking. I'm not trying to convince anyone that they are better. Can't compare em to my epapilon de's because of hight requirements put I do know the qb's run cooler so I save on cooling. Also I don't have a need for new bulbs every 6 months so that's another few hundred savings a year. Is there a difference in yield? Probably not much ether way but I see deeper penetration with the qb's over 630 cmh. So that makes me think the lower buds are bigger.
I have nothing at all to gain from telling folks what I see so do what ever you want and be happy. I'll keep moving forward in my game what ever the cost.

 

[Smokin Joe]

I have a question, how many of you that claim hid is king or what ever have actually ran a quality led?

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I took down some plants yesterday under 30 watts per square foot of LED. Nice tight nugz. Not quite as large as my HID but much denser than the HID. And pretty dang frosty. Wish I could get a decent picture so I could post them. Going to try and get a battery and charger for my camera so I can.

 

[Aspenou812]

I don't know either way... that's why I'm asking...ya know... those are some some factors I have to consider going forward....Your room looms amazing Joe buds look like hard rocks... I have no doubts that 8 trays would put off more than the 3 I can cool now

 

[RockinRobot]

Y'all have to remember... I'm in the Deep South... its crazy fing Hot here 9 months out of the year... every btu of heat and every drop of humidity have to be taken into account.. The only way to combat heat and humidity here is with AC and A Dehumidifier.... My question is a simple one... will they stand up to the quality and weight I can get off my Gavita... or another Hid.... So would the diminished returns and perhaps a slight increase in quality really impact my pocket book in a negative way... What I do know is the AC I have right now.... will cool 8 of those so could i grow more for less... For instance... I can keep 3k of mixed hids cool... that's two 4x4 and a 2x2 right 15 plants... versus having 8 trays with 8 lights and 48 plants... dose that make sense to anyone else?

Short answer here IMO. I believe the Gavita is a plasma light and will definitely give you the best bud because of spectrum and size(1000w of the best spectrum available) but the 630w CMH has nearly the same spectrum and will probably put off half the heat. Especially since plasma is hotter than regular HPS even.

If your AC is sized correctly you should only ever need a dehumidifier during lights out. I'm farther south in FL than you are. My new flower room drops to 40% with 3 600w HPS. You probably need it now because your AC isn't running enough at the moment. Once you start adding heat the AC will take care of your humidity. Also I run lights at night to help with cooling in the summer.

I'm not putting down LED but I don't think initial cost of them will ever make them a better alternative to CMH. Especially when CMH has a much better spectrum and also provides UV which aids in resin development. CMH bulbs also reportedly last much longer than HPS.

You can probably pick up 3 630w CMH for the cost of a single LED that covers the same footprint as a single 630.

Just my $0.02. I think you will see nearly the same harvest you do with the gavita with 630w CMH. You will save on cooling over the gavita and save on cost over the price of LED. Save the extra money you would spend on LED and spend it on the little one.

 

[Smokin Joe]

I don't know either way... that's why I'm asking...ya know... those are some some factors I have to consider going forward....

It's all up to your goals and what you are willing to pay for them. I don't think there is a best light. There are better lights for different applications. Led light out put isn't measured on the box like hid lights. The driver determines how much light and at what efficiency they run. The diodes only determine the color of light. My 9 board light is powered by 3 x 1400ma drivers. They are drawing about .8 amps each 3 boards and cover 5x5 area. So by amps and foot print it compares to a 1000. I'm gonna rebuild that light soon and make it 2 lights that will each cover a 4x4. Those drivers will draw around 2 amps each so are more comparable to a 600 in wats but still a 1000 for foot print. Now comes the real test! How much cooling will it take and do I loose penetration because the 1000 way lights have to be 2' above the canopy to get the foot print while I can turn the led down in power and move it close to the plants to encourage lower growth while not sacrificing foot print. Or I can raise it to 3' above and blast em. I don't have a par meter but my eyes tell me this much.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

My par meter test showed 615 watts of LED beat a 1000 watts of HPS in 24 of 33 test locations. Plus there are bunch of different spectrums available with LEDs. My 615 watts added in the driver loss and the 1000 HPS the driver loss was not added. So over 40% energy savings which is 400 plus watts of heat.

You will still get heat with LEDS but not nearly as much.

I only have 2 HPS bulbs running now and only to get some plants to stretch. My LEDs tend to keep the plants shorter and some plants need to stretch more than the LEDs cause.

 

[Buckeyebandit]

I am trying 2 HLG 65’s in my 3x3 veg tent to try and see any difference in veg before jumping all in on LEDs. I just bought the 2 cmh for the first flowering. I am looking at timber and HLG for the fact I will not go back to hid. 1500$ a lick I want to be sure. This debate is all over the place about this subject

I have a question, how many of you that claim hid is king or what ever have actually ran a quality led?

 

[RockinRobot]

I have a question, how many of you that claim hid is king or what ever have actually ran a quality led?

I don't argue that LED isn't good for growing. But $1500 for a single light for a 4X4 area for a quality LED just isn't justifiable to me. I can get 5 630w CMH for that price. The new CMH do not run much that much hotter than LED. So for me they don't make sense. I can replace a lot of bulbs and buy a lot of electric for the $1200 difference between a 630w CMH and a top line LED. On top of that there is not a LED fixture on the market with anywhere close to the spectrum offered by CMH.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I don't argue that LED isn't good for growing. But $1500 for a single light for a 4X4 area for a quality LED just isn't justifiable to me. I can get 5 630w CMH for that price. The new CMH do not run much that much hotter than LED. So for me they don't make sense. I can replace a lot of bulbs and buy a lot of electric for the $1200 difference between a 630w CMH and a top line LED. On top of that there is not a LED fixture on the market with anywhere close to the spectrum offered by CMH.

I suspect you have not looked at LEDs very well. I have seen the light that Joe mentions for $723. That is a better light than what ever $1500 light you are talking about. I can make a light for less than that.

And you are wrong on the spectrum.

Not trying to be a dick but you are just wrong.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

McCree curve



630 CMH



Looking at the McCree curve you can see that there is less light needed in the red spectrum than the 630 CMH produces. That is wasted light. It is also light on the blue end. Blue light keeps a plant shorter and red light makes it stretch more.

This is why 630 CMH produces less micromoles per joules than the HLG 550 light for the same amount of wattage. In other words the HLG light puts out the same amount of light for 20% less power.

Micro moles per joule is the par amount the light puts out for a given amount of energy.

So based on the McCree curve above that is the light produced between 400 nm and 700 nm. Anything on the outside of that range has little use to the plant for growing.

Here is the spectrum numbers for 4 different diodes that are used with the HLG 550.



I think these are much better than the CMH as most of the light falls in the PAR range.

I think that the Samsung diodes are much better than the CMH. Just way more efficient when done right. My lights are even more efficient than the HLG 550 light.

 

[Buckeyebandit]

Ichabod
You just perked my interest even higher. Do you have a opinion on the 3590 Cree that timber has? I don't want to turn this lady's thread into a debate but sounds like you are in touch with the new light systems

Thanks in advance

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Ichabod
You just perked my interest even higher. Do you have a opinion on the 3590 Cree that timber has? I don't want to turn this lady's thread into a debate but sounds like you are in touch with the new light systems

Thanks in advance

I am sure she is fine with it because she wants to learn about them as well.

I am running some 3590 cobs in the 3500K range. I dont like them as much for veg as the 3000K Samsung 561C diodes. They just dont stretch as much and for me they take longer in veg because I have to grow them bigger because of the pruning needed for flower. They grow so tight that with out heavy pruning they get to much larf.

That said I like them in flower as they keep the buds tighter. But the stretch is only a problem with strains that are 50/50 or more indica. The more sativa seem to grow OK with the cobs. But I dont run to many of them to say for sure.

One of the things I dont like about the cobs is that they focus to much light in one spot. This creates more shading than it you had more points of light. The Samsung diodes I run at 1764 diodes spread out over a 4.5 4.5 foot print. Where as for the same power usage that would be only 12 cobs. That amount of diodes really reduces the shading I get.

Now when I say I run 1764 diodes that is a light I built. The HLG light runs either 1152 or 1216 diodes in the same area. That is why I say my light runs more efficient than the HLG 550. I run more diodes at a lower current which increases the efficiency. But it cost more to do that.

But the cobs are a good choice. The citizens are more efficient than the Crees right now thought I believe. But I am not sure 100%. The Samsungs 561C are better than the cobs. But the most efficient right now are the 301B. But the 301B needs to come down a lot in price if you want to recoup your cost for that. They are running about 2.5 times the cost as the 561C and only getting a few percent more.