Getting Started w/ living soil

[Microbeman]

any idea why rancho took down all the info... ?? what's the story, i'm confused, did i miss something..

Need the recipe for cooks soil if you have it please.

i've also come across compost, one is a pile lying in someones garden the other about a tonne removed beneath paving after a driveway was dug up, this is also closer to where i live.. does it make a difference?

It looks as if the original ROLS thread, which was a sticky is dissappeared. It has all the information. I do not know what happened. Ask Von maybe.

 

[vonforne]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=241964

here ya go

 

[dreadlock]

yup got it & much more! wish it didn't have to be such a painful experience for my fingers tho.. just about made it to page 105 lol great thread none the less..

guys any advantages too cooking a soil mix for more then 7 weeks? do you have a specific time frame? or can you go as long as you want..

 

[dreadlock]

you mention using compost once finished through the worm bin, this will process it in to vermicompost not castings right. How would you define worm castings & vermicompost?

 

[xmobotx]

re: castings vs vermicompost

~it's the same thing but once again; w/ vermicompost the advantage is you know what went in to it through out the whole process {the main potential advantage here is nutrient cycling}

probably your best compost would come from inputs such as organic garden waste along w/ dynamic accumulators like; burdock, dock, comfrey, dandelion, mullein, et al as well as 'activators' like; yarrow, chamomile, comfrey {once again!} alfalfa, et al

mix'n your Ca amendments and rock dusts/azomite {or charcoal?} ~even kelp meal would be the 'nutrient cycling'

here's what i have for a soil mix;

recipe;
base:1peat1pumice1compost
amend:neem/kelp
rock:basalt(scoria)/glac dust
lime: gypsum crab meal

Everything except the peat/pumice could come with the compost part {nutrient cycling}

somewhere i posted a verbatim of cootz' recipe but TBH/that's cootz' recipe and i kinda dont like parrot'n it off ~even giving him credit

which is to say; it's his work/research {lol; he posts it in Von's link above}

however; the reality is that a specific recipe isn't that critical ~like cootz states 'you can't amend your way to living soil' ~more important is to have and utilize quality humus sources {hence the importance of knowing your inputs} probably next is environment; not too wet or too dry not too cold or hot

i kind of like to extend my mix and do 2 pts peat to 1pt drainage/1 part EWC and/or compost ~which is merely to demonstrate that these 'recipes' are pretty flexible {the 'traditional' recipe would be 3 peat:1 drainage:1 EWC} ~peat's cheap and a pretty good 'amendment' as well

 

[vonforne]

yup got it & much more! wish it didn't have to be such a painful experience for my fingers tho.. just about made it to page 105 lol great thread none the less..

guys any advantages too cooking a soil mix for more then 7 weeks? do you have a specific time frame? or can you go as long as you want..

You can go as long as you want. Most of us go with a minimum of 2 weeks before use but I prefer the longer periods to allow the soil to age or ´cook´ as most term it. I have actually planted straight into a mix but sometimes you will run into minor problems along the line in the first run.

The longer the better. Keep the soil moist and add ACT, kelp etc. along the way.

V

 

[dreadlock]

regarding his recipe, i totally understand xmobotx, respect that..

makes allot of sense now. nice one guys.. thanks for being so patient with me! Sometimes panic sets in, gets the better and as a result i start over thinking.. Being the only grower out of everyone i know sometimes adds allot of pressure. Glad to part of the site, not sure where i would be without all your help..

 

[xmobotx]

it can be a bit un-nerving ~not knowing what to expect from a new mix {did i make a mistake measuring/forget something/let it cook long enough?} there's been times i just needed the soil and everything went in it & i thought, 'well, if it's all dead tomorrow; it's all dead'

hasn't happened yet but starting over isn't that big a deal

i made this thread because i had to start over and figured it would be a good time to post what i was actually doing

 

[Seaf0ur]

it can be a bit un-nerving ~not knowing what to expect from a new mix {did i make a mistake measuring/forget something/let it cook long enough?} there's been times i just needed the soil and everything went in it & i thought, 'well, if it's all dead tomorrow; it's all dead'

hasn't happened yet but starting over isn't that big a deal

i made this thread because i had to start over and figured it would be a good time to post what i was actually doing

I've done it.... planted without waiting quite long enough.... into soil that I hate to say .... halfway through TP I found the bottom half of my mixing trash can still thermophilic..... Had to continue anyways or leave root exposed... Burned the girl, but she pulled through....

 

[xmobotx]

yeah; it seems like you get what seems to be a multitude of deficiencies

some folks mix & go & it works for them; i usually find it's got to sit a while/always thinking a "test crop" is a good idea ~i like to start a living mulch & get roots going in there {maybe inoculate mycorrhizae?}

These types of mix really benefit from barley sprout rinses. i feel like those enzymes are basically another part of the puzzle & a keep it simple approach might be to just plant barley as your test crop/living mulch

 

[Seaf0ur]

Never did a test crop, but I am planning a micro clover cover crop/living mulch

The mix I'm currently using (combined with previous re-amended soils so.... not quite complete.)

My sprouted barley I do 2 ways.... sometimes I aerate similar to a kelp/alfalfa/EWC tea... pouring out the first days water to rid the seed coats growth inhibitors, fresh water added at seed crack and 2 days later, THAT is my tea.....

The 2nd method, I actually take advantage of the growth hormones to ensure a higher germination rate on my canna seeds.... I place my barley in a pie tin, inside a cloth... keep it moist until the barley begins to sprout. At this point I have a threadbare dishcloth I place my cannabis seeds in and place next to the barley seed's cloth.... The growth hormones from the barley seem to sprout my seeds much more rapidly... I also just slightly scuff my seeds with 600 grit auto sandpaper to allow moisture to penetrate more readily..... almost perfect germination rates so far....

 

[JediMasterVon]

I eat most of my sprouts just as the tails start to get long.......lol. I grow rapidly then.

J

 

[xmobotx]

I do the sprout rinse trip:

I like to soak my barley seeds overnight {~8 hrs} ~IDK about a TBS of seed? {enough for a qt of "rinse"/gallon diluted}

that "soak" water gets thrown away ~or something/not used for the sprout rinse {sometimes i drink it}

subsequently, once i see sprouting tips emerge, I'll rinse the sprouts fairly vigorous {I'm going to let them continue to sprout} and pour off that "rinse" which I use as a soil drench

you can use it straight or thin it probably down to about 1 qt rinse to 3 qts water for a gallon of irrigation water

I get 3 or 4 rinses before I either blend the sprouts for a final "seed sprout tea" ~or, plant the barley sprouts as living mulch

 

[xmobotx]

here's the formula posted in the soil-making thread:

The basic recipe is to mix sphagnum peat moss (or leaf mold and/or coco coir), aeration bits (pummice, turface, scoria, perlite, vermiculite, rice hulls, calcined clay...a mix of different sized material is best), and compost (usually thermophilic compost and worm castings). Most run something like 25-33% compost, 25-35% aeration and the rest is peat. You would be just fine running equal parts peat, compost, and aeration. Use whatever you can get your grubby little hands on. This is your base. Diversity is the best, but don't bother having a bag of expensive rock dust mailed to you. The idea is to use the recipe as a formula to utilize what you can get.

Now it can be a little confusing for the uninitiated---we're going to have to amend.

I use 3 mixes to keep things straight in my old brain. They are as follows:

1. Food Mix
2. Fix-It Mix
3. Mineral Mix

Food Mix
You want about 2 cups of your food mix - however you get there. You're going to use (he was responding to a guys question about how to mix everything he already purchased -ed.) alfalfa meal, fish meal and bone meal. Mix up a large amount with equal parts (by volume and not by weight) and add 2 cups of this mix to your soil.
If you were to decide that you wanted to add canola meal (aka rape seed meal), flax seed meal (aka linseed meal), et al. then add the same volume of this to your mix but you're still only going to use 2 cups of the final mix. That total amount that you want to use does not increase - you're simply making your Food Mix more diverse( a worthy goal, IMHO)

Fix-It Mix

You're using kelp meal and a combination of neem and karanja meals. Again mix these in equal parts (by volume) and add 1-1.5 cups of this mix to your potting soil. If you were to add crab meal (another good Fix-It component) you would still add the same amount even with the addition of another agent, i.e. 1-1.5 cups.

Mineral Mix

You're using azomite and green sand - mix these together like the other mixes and of this mix you'd want to add about 1 cup to your potting soil. If you were to add limestone (or Oyster Shell Powder) and agricultural Gypsum (both available at Home Depot, BTW) you'd add these minerals by the same volume but you'd still only use 1 cup of however a diverse mix you might come up with.
Glacial Rock Dust is different and its application rate is ? cups to 1 c.f. of potting soil irrespective of the other minerals you decide to go with.

All the amounts above on all of the mixes are for 1 c.f. of potting soil or 7.5 gallons (allegedly).

all credit for these mixes and thier ratios go to Clackamass Cootz as he posted in the ´Living soil thread´

also credit FTI for sharing the above info

 

[Swayze]

This was the last soil mix I wrote down back on May 10th.

5 Gallons Alaska Peat
5 Gallons Compost/EWC
5 Gallons Pumice

Food Mix - 4 Cups Total
- 1 Cup Alfalfa
- 1 Cup N Guano
- 1 Cup P Guano
- 1 Cup Vegan Mix

Fix It Mix - 3 Cups Total
- 1.5 Cups Kelp
- 1.5 Cups Neem

Mineral mix - 3.5 Cups Total
- 2 Cups Azomite
- 1 Cup Oyster Shell
- .5 Cup Red Lake Diatomaceous Earth

I let this sit for a while in a 20 gallon tote and then grew a few houseplants with it while the other grow was finishing up. I ended up taking about half of it for other plants and when I made another batch to fill the tote I used some native soil, karanja, rock dutst, rice hulls, fungal compost, and crab shells. Once the grow was finished, i dumped out the old soil in to the worm bin and filled a 20 gallon smartpot with that mix. Here's a picture of what the soil can do.

I've topdressed twice. Once 2 weeks in to flower with a Tablespoon each of Alfalfa, Kelp, Karanja, Rock Dust. Covered with EWC and chopped up comfrey. I topdressed this morning with 2.5 Tablespoons of my flower mix guano (3P:1N). I may water in a Sul-Po-Mag tea next week and possibly an enzyme tea as well.

 

[xmobotx]

wow swayze those look real nice!

 

[redlaser]

have a seedling mix ~esp just getting a mix going

a seedling mix can be planted straight in to and top-dress later if you happen to want to use that container to finish

1 pt EWC; 1 pt drainage {perlite, rice hulls or pumice;} 2 pt peat
{i like the 3 part lime mix *dolo lime/oyster flour/gypsum* ~but some Ca amendment @2TBS/gal of peat}

crab meal can be a good stand alone Ca amendment providing Ca as well as some slow release N & P {don't worry so much about K ~it's likely plentiful anyway}

i suppose 1 TBS/gal of soil each of the 3 part lime mixed above & of crab meal wouldn't be too scary

{@/after 4 nodes}for your 1st run; top-dress some neem seed meal @1tsp to 1TBS/gal of soil/mulch that w/ EWC in veg then; when you flip*; top dress w/ kelp meal and/or fish bone meal ~mulching a little more EWC on that {as an alternative you could just mulch w/ some of your potting soil mix}

* "the flip" switching from a longer light cycle than dark cycle to 12 hours on 12 hours off to induce flowering

see FTI's potting soil 101 thread for soil mixes **dead link** try this

basically; you should start composting. Similarly; get a worm bin going.
your own EWC & compost is un-beatable ~it exceeds every commercial product {mostly because it is fresh~ alive!

w/ compost; bigger is better ~you can do whatever suits your situation ~i have a monster pile near as tall as me outside but; this spring i brought a 5 gal bucket in and mixed some yarrow dandelion and alfalfa {for enzymes and biology} in a small batch of 'finished' compost to 'wake it up' for teas

the 'trick' w/ compost is to get your C:N ratio somewhere between 25 and 30 {which is to say 25 to 30 parts C to 1 part N}~thx RD

make your own 'compost starter' by harvesting some chamomile/yarrow/dandelion/dock/alfalfa/valerian/comfrey ~basically any and all you can get a hold of

i like to stack up some dead weeds from last fall and start pouring green cut 'weeds' on top of that 'framework' ~once it starts to slough down pretty good it gets to where you have to turn it ~aerating the pile is important

always good to put finished compost through your worm bin and let them really finish it up

nutrient cycling is almost like a 'secret weapon' ~that's composting your amendments right along w/ the other goodies {then you dont add amendments when you do your soil mix months later}

a good next step is a compost tea brewer

to get started i just used a manifold to mix the air from 3 aquarium pumps into 1 hose and ran that into an 'L' shape peice of PVC {a chunk of straight and an elbow} i just slung that in a bucket so the straight end pointed down and the elbow burbled out onto the surface of the water in the bucket ~that isn't optimum {but it works}

a good brewer will break surface tension/aerating the water ~when it's well aerated you will see the foamy quality to the water {sometimes it might foam up at the surface ~thats not what i mean and may or may not indicate it went well} it just isn't clear, glassy water ~it's bubbly

there's a whole article on brewing compost tea and microbeman has a ton of info and recipes on his site; microbeorganics.com

xmobotx- thanks for starting this thread, it's been a real help. I am following the recipe/directions and I understand that later when adding amendments like neem and kelp it's at a rate of 1.5 cups per cubic foot of soil. Does that really mean 1.5 cups per sq. ft. of peat? Or do you add 1.5 cups per total volume of soil mix? (including the castings volume and the pumice volume) I noticed the calcium mix only was added according to the peat volume.

 

[Seaf0ur]

per cu ft of base mix.... so yes.. that's including the peat and castings etc.... calcium is a liming agent to deal with the acidity of the peat.

 

[xmobotx]

i'm seeing crab/neem/kelp @ 1.5 cu/cu ft. ~notice that's 1/2c ea amendment {~ 1TBS/gal}

i've always added Ca amendments according to the final volume of mix ~all amendments in fact

 

[redlaser]

I appreciate the reply SeaFour, and xmobotx, the 1.5 cups food mix total per cu. ft. no matter source I did get right thanks, that is important.
I figured out where I was getting the Ca rate wrong. It's really 2 Tbs. Ca per gal, not per cu. ft of final mix. So I would need to add 15-16 Tbs. per cu. ft. of soil mix. (16 Tbs= 1 cup, 7.5 gallons per cubic foot) So a cup per cu.ft., seems simple.