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Germany to legalize cannabis
- Thread starter Cuddles
- Start date
regulatory agencies would rather have to overlook a dozen or so big companies rather than try to keep tabs on a few hundred small farms.
Asentrouw
Well-known member
The new german coalition government is set to leagalize cannabis. The details are not yet clear and are still being discussed.
A step in the right direction!
Not sure if regularization by the State is by definition a good development.
It also means extra taxes and commercialisation of the (big) growing bussiness.
REAL legalization would be great, but I'm afraid that's not what the German State persues (nor the US or Canadian ones for that matter).
They are not idealists, they just want to regulate it to control it and make profits from it like any "good" neoliberal will...
Hasch
learning and laughing
Not sure I can see that in the developments so far.
No plans to levy taxes on it or to requiring expensive permits etc..
Asentrouw
Well-known member
Not yet. It probably starts out that people can grow a limited number of plants for personal use. Which is great ofcourse. However that's not legalization, but still regulation.
On the long term either the State or Big Pharma will take over the role of organized crime and the drugsdealer, because that's where the big money is.
This is what international developments are currently steering towards, following the US "legalization"-movement marketing cannabis.
For me there are many reasons to see this as a bad development, as cannabis then becomes a lucrative "product" for big bussiness and profit maximalisation.
Hasch
learning and laughing
That scenariio does sound scary. But who knows.
I try to be here now.
And not use my energy, time + focus to go through scenarios of what might be..
Asentrouw
Well-known member
Sure, this is not yet the case. But it seems to be the general tendency in all Western countries: privatize the profits and collectivise the losses.
Anyway, the plans of minister Lauterbach are still a very strict regularisation. He calls the State to control the entire cannabis market.
It's somewhat the same as in the Netherlands (limitations on numbers and grams, regulations of sells, age restrictions, etc.), with as only difference that it has a "legal" status instead of being merely "tolerated".
However there these laws regarding cannabis are applied completely arbitrarily comforming to the political taste of the local police and municipality. So you can have 5 plants in one city without any problems and be evicted from your house in another, because those same 5 plants violate the 30-gram rule (which is labelled as a commercial quantity, so you are considered a illegal drugsdealer).
So there are still some problems with such regulated systems, even if they are not taken over by big bussiness yet.
But ofcourse it could be a first step in the right direction. Who knows.
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Cuddles
Well-known member
the german police appear to be going right in the other direction. They seem to be doing more weed related raids.
Seems kinda silly as the government has been saying that sentences for cannabis offences can be deleted from peoples records at a later date. So maybe the police are kinda wasting too much cash. I reckon this money could be spent on other, much more vital things? But then again, I´m not a german copper, lol
Seems kinda silly as the government has been saying that sentences for cannabis offences can be deleted from peoples records at a later date. So maybe the police are kinda wasting too much cash. I reckon this money could be spent on other, much more vital things? But then again, I´m not a german copper, lol
Cuddles
Well-known member
of course it´s about money. Otherwise they would never have considered legalization at all.
But I think the most important thing will be that individual growers will be allowed to grow for themselves. I reckon the majority of (med) users and growers will be happy and relieved . I know I would be!
Asentrouw
Well-known member
of course it´s about money. Otherwise they would never have considered legalization at all.
But I think the most important thing will be that individual growers will be allowed to grow for themselves. I reckon the majority of (med) users and growers will be happy and relieved . I know I would be!
Ofcourse, I just make the side note that this is not a guarantee after so-called "legalization" (which in fact is not freeing all restrictions on the market, but only regulation of it).
This is not some kind of idealist idea coming from mr. Lauterbach himself, but a political attempt to control what they currently cannot control themselves in their own interest: the black cannabis market.
So at first it may prove nice for small scale growers, but in the end they will not gain much by these policies.
Look at the Dutch "tolerance-policy", which led from a cannabis valhalla in the '80s/'90s, towards a very repressive regulation system nowadays, in which organized crime thrives, while small scale idealist growers are criminalized and kicked out of their houses for a handfull of plants. I dare to say these days the so-called "tolerant" Dutch cannabis policy, gave way to one of the most repressive systems in the EU.
I doubt the situation in Germany and other countries like Spain for instance, will be very different from that on the long term.
Not trying to be an asshole by spoiling all the fun, but be careful what you wish for. I'll leave it add that.
Cuddles
Well-known member
yeah, it won´t be perfect anytime soon. The trouble is that people have been brainwashed with this ` cannabis is really, really bad´ nonsense for too long, whilst refusing to educated themselves on teh subject.Ofcourse, I just make the side note that this is not a guarantee after so-called "legalization" (which in fact is not freeing all restrictions on the market, but only regulation of it).
This is not some kind of idealist idea coming from mr. Lauterbach himself, but a political attempt to control what they currently cannot control themselves in their own interest: the black cannabis market.
So at first it may prove nice for small scale growers, but in the end they will not gain much by these policies.
Look at the Dutch "tolerance-policy", which led from a cannabis valhalla in the '80s/'90s, towards a very repressive regulation system nowadays, in which organized crime thrives, while small scale idealist growers are criminalized and kicked out of their houses for a handfull of plants. I dare to say these days the so-called "tolerant" Dutch cannabis policy, gave way to one of the most repressive systems in the EU.
I doubt the situation in Germany and other countries like Spain for instance, will be very different from that on the long term.
Not trying to be an asshole by spoiling all the fun, but be careful what you wish for. I'll leave it add that.
It will be a long time before the general public and this includes people in the medical field, realize how silly this attitude and ignorance really is/was.
But a few things have already changed, so it´s still a good sign overall. I just wish it didn´t take so bloody long!
CannaT
starin' at the world through my rearview
I think its all one politcians made show.
Nothing will be out of this...if they got different words from EC than it will be something.
Its just daily topic to mask other problems Germany have at moment and especially in the future.
Cannabis market is existing in all countries in the world. With legalisation it will probably drop down cuz there were be like 10x more home growers in comparasion with now.
So thats why it is not legal if it becomes legal everybody will lose money.
It will become unworthy nobody will care about.
All these strains game will become instant bullshit...billions or trillions of dollars will be lost.
There is way to "legalisation" and move from hippy culture with cannabis to real industry.
But still people on top dosent have idea...and all industry is heading in strait trash.
That is reallity.
Nothing will be out of this...if they got different words from EC than it will be something.
Its just daily topic to mask other problems Germany have at moment and especially in the future.
Cannabis market is existing in all countries in the world. With legalisation it will probably drop down cuz there were be like 10x more home growers in comparasion with now.
So thats why it is not legal if it becomes legal everybody will lose money.
It will become unworthy nobody will care about.
All these strains game will become instant bullshit...billions or trillions of dollars will be lost.
There is way to "legalisation" and move from hippy culture with cannabis to real industry.
But still people on top dosent have idea...and all industry is heading in strait trash.
That is reallity.
Cuddles
Well-known member
the problem I see is that a handful of big companies simply cannot meet the demands. Plus the market will lack diversity and possible quality. I don´t really trust these mass production places, not sure why, I just don´t.
Having the freedom to do your own thing would be a huge blessing as we can then pick and choose strains to try out for ourselves and our own needs whenever we want or need to.
I´m not too bothered about everything else, although growing and selling it to say a small shop for resale would be really nice!
CannaT
starin' at the world through my rearview
If you open company LLC you want to make money.
These small shop owner want to be few shop owner...nobody open LLC and one shop and say im done.
Its business, Im talking about cannabis business model as it is right now.
Price is/was high cuz its ilegal,and thats the only reason strains exist,seed business and everything.
With legalisation or liberaziation of market.
It will destroy itself.
Thats why this big companies are losing money just as small growers. Price is globaly lower than it was before.
This businnes model is just not good.
And the main point is everybody will lose money so thats why there will be no legalisation.
Till they find better model so they can earn more money. All these legalisation around the globe are just experiments and thats it.
money rules the world.
Asentrouw
Well-known member
I think the future cannabis monopolies are perfectly able to regulate the global marketprices, as with any other industry today.
You will see the same as with other convenience products like alcohol: marketing and taxes will keep the prices and profits high for the big companies and the State.
Artisan individuals are forbidden to produce their own products or only allowed to do so under strict government regulation, so they cannot compete or be selfsufficient.
Also the market will dictate what's commercially desirable and get rid of all the natural diversity of crops by standardisation and overdevelopment.
So in the end there doesn't change much for the smalltime grower or user; it doesn't matter if he/she is exploited by organized crime or supranational monopolies.
Cuddles
Well-known member
my outlook on the seed market is not as black - If people can grow without getting busted, they will grow and they will want a nice large choice of seeds to choose from. Kinda like large breweries make way more beer but people can also make beer at home, micro breweries, people making their own wine or whiskey or whatever.
I´d hate to think that there won´t be a large choice of seeds anymore, that´ll be really sad
i see various remarks like this in nearly every thread RE legalization. does nobody understand that EVERYTHING is "regulated" to a degree? or that ALL intoxicants etc are, and most likely always will be? folks say things like "well, i want cannabis to be treated like tomatoes." but if you go to sell the tomatoes from your garden at a farmers market, there ARE regulations that you must follow. just being legal does not equal "no regulations". i don't get why this is so difficult (or impossible) for so many people to understand... if it is the number of plants you are allowed to grow, then think...twenty years ago, how many were you allowed? you will never get everything you want all at once. you just won't...sorry. life is a process...
CannaT
starin' at the world through my rearview
my outlook on the seed market is not as black - If people can grow without getting busted, they will grow and they will want a nice large choice of seeds to choose from. Kinda like large breweries make way more beer but people can also make beer at home, micro breweries, people making their own wine or whiskey or whatever.
I´d hate to think that there won´t be a large choice of seeds anymore, that´ll be really sad
I think if weed is very low price that many want be buying as much seeds as they do.
I can buy any other fruits and vegs for grow and still I dont care.
Also with better climate for grow and free know how many people become breeders by themselfs.
Today there are so many seed companies imagine what will be with further liberalization of market.
Market is always a pie which is divided in pieces remember that.
Seed market has some worth and its always the same or with small fluctations.
Simply supply and demand.
And about large choice of seeds, there is today but with very small genetic differences.
