Genetic Modification of Cannabis

[Tirs]

Ganico- you are clearly very young or have had the good fortune of never having great tragedy strike close to your family. Despite that you base your ideas off of rationality they are very callous. You need to mature a little more and then re-examine that view point because if you could look right at your spouse/child and say "sorry I could end your pain or suffering but by random luck you got the genetic short end of the stick and now you must be wiped out." Then you are a truley horrible person, read about the Nazi T4 program and you will see you aren't the first to espouse such harsh eugenics.

Either way in the instance you are talking about GE produces the same result as proliferating genes resistant to disease but without the needless death of millions, how could you say you are against that.... Not to mention your argument is incredibly hypocritical "playing god" Hah! so you get to decide where we draw the line huh? I guess you are all for the medical treatment given to us by technology you've received through your years that have kept you on this earth but you would like to deny the same chance to other people. Well if your such a fine example of the human genome next time you get ill anyway why don't you say no to antibiotics or other treatment and just tough it out buddy!!

THIS THREAD CAN HEAD IN TWO DIRECTIONS:
1.) It can remain on topic about cannabis where it should remain here in the Breeders Forum.
2.) If people can not stop ranting (I know I'm guilty too) I think it should be moved to the MMJ forum where this can be taken up with some of the real patients (not those with a painful hangnail) such as cancer, MS patients. Then feel free to tell these people that their disease should cause others to continue to suffer needlessly.

 

[Ganico]

I actually had made a post expressing my opinions a little further, and I think it was a damn good post too. And no, I'm not "very young". Anyway I erased the post cause it was off topic of cannabis. If you'd like me repost it though and continue the "debate", I can.

And actually, I haven't taken antibiotics in years. I personally think they give them out far too much. The only time I go to the doctor is if I really really have to

The world is overpopulating more and more each day, we are destroying the earth more and more each day,we've got like 100 years max at the current rate we're going. But what do you care? You won't be here then, right? But what about your great grandkids and their family? Oh well, screw em completly I guess. Let's live for NOW, in the moment, you know. Fuck it, you've convinced me

Now lets go dump some chemicals in the enviroment and burn up some oil!!! See if we can't genetically engineer some superior humans to fight in our countries wars and then clone the shit out of them! Whew!! Fucking up all our world is a fucking blast!!!

 

[green_grow]

correct me if i am wrong, but i think it's incorrect to compare genetic modification to breeding . with breeding one simply selects the parents with the traits that one desires. with genetic modification one has the option of introducing a gene from a completely unrelated species (i.e. a tomato plant ... or a duck) . my personal opinion is that we should be moving verrrrrry carefully in this area . i wouldnt knowingly touch a genetically modified food (or otherwise consumeable) product.
one thing is for sure ... this topic can create discussions as heated as any religious or political discussion . can we keep it civil, folks ?

 

[alaeddin]

It is a great tool if we were ready for it. I think we are not. You might say that the control of the spreading of the genes is possible and maybe it really is, but either somebody isn't trying hard enough or we are not ready.

I have worked on a research project and engineered dna was found in approximately %20 of the samples that were collected from farms all over the country. A country where it is strictly forbidden to bring in any GMO's and growing them is heavily punished. Ofcourse the research was confidential, but the results are shocking. Similar results have come from other similar countries. I think more than %75 of America's soy is GMO.

I am for the engineering of the genes, but we have much much more to do before we get to that. A knife in a childs hand is dangerous but it can create wonders in the hands of a carpenter.

The funniest thing is, a seed company producing GMO seeds can sue you if you have grown crops from seeds that were pollinated by crops containing their genes. They literally sue you for using their patented products where you don't have the faintest clue. I wonder if you would be able to sue them for "infecting" your plants. I seriously doubt that you would win that one. This is like sueing someone for not paying for the nicotine they get from the smoke of the cigarette that you smoke near them.

 

[Mibri]

GM is exactly what has been done to the plant for hundreds and hundreds of years. All of our use plants have ben manipulated by selection for severel generation. Doing this in a faster way in laboratories will just leave us with what we probably would end up with in yet severel hundreds of years - all good in my opinion. Nobody is talking about creating trichome covered five pounder tomatoes. Done in a healthy way i think it's excellent. I wanna try some of "year 2500 bud"

 

[- ezra -]

For the purpose of this discussion, would anyones opinions change dependant on weather the genetic modification was transgenic or not?

 

[alaeddin]

Isn't it all about that?
I mean fast forwarding selective breeding in a laboratory isn't the big fuss that is made over the topic.

 

[Daytripper]

For the purpose of this discussion, would anyones opinions change dependant on weather the genetic modification was transgenic or not?

I took for granted that you meant transgenic, which amounts to phyllo-rape. Inserting cannabis genes into cannabis is easier to accept but mann knows so little.

Take bt corn, when they inserted bt into corn they added over 500 letters beyond the bt gene. Man is too sloppy to do this delicate work properly.

How about that bt cotton? Produces less requires more water, it cost many farmers in India their lives family farms their familys now homeless.

What about terminater genes that produce sterile seeds, this could cause a famine if those genes escape.( pollen that produces still born seeds)

If cannabis were legal and some guy planted GM cannabis next door to you the wind would blow that pollen onto your plants " infecting" them with GM genes. Saving the seeds from your own plants would be illegal with penalties including fines totaling millions of dollars and prison as a remedy.

I suspect those in favor of GM of cannabis know very little about GM but think if its unatural it has to be better than natural.

I doubt those in favor of GM cannabis have spent even 8 hours doing research on GM of cannabis or any plant.I'd bet most lack the brain power to understand the research papers available for free. try google scholar and see if I'm not right.

I'm all for genetic modifaction of genetic researchers involved in GM of plants though, them and their wives should be modified so they can reproduce and show the world how much they really know. The children they produce would serve as an example to the whole world

 

[zamalito]

Daytripper once again you're spot on to everything I wanted to say. If anyone read the link I'd posted previously you see what me and daytriper are saying. Genome mapping produces much better results than genetic engineering. I don't have any problems with using gm to manufacture chemicals and pharmaceuticals I do have a serious problem when you talk about introducing gm plants into the environment. With genome mapping you get to see everything a species is capable of naturally and simply select parents from seeds before they're even germinated but its much work mapping a genome. To shortcut this they do this gm crap often times not producing the desired result and having unknown side effects until it is too late. I'm thoroughly suprised any of you guys are for this. Noone has even stated what traits they'd like gm cannabis to have yet they're for it. How exactly would gm cannabis be better? Would it have higher thc? I'm sorry but for a flower to be 30% by weight any chemical but chlorophyl is pretty extreme yet there are flowers which naturally produce 30% thc how much more could a plant produce and survive and that's if they can find or engineer a gene which enhances potency which is unlikely? More drought resistance there's already plants from afghanistan and morocco that survive some intensely dry conditions? Cannabis can already thrive anywhere. In fact the thought of genetically engineering a plant to be more succesful in producing a chemical is pointless anyways. It would simply be much easier either to cunstruct an enzyme or genetically engineer a bacteria or fungus to produce cannabinoids that way no gm species are introduced into the environment and no time is wasted growing a plant just get this small group of chemicals.

 

[bartender187]

Im all for a labeling system for GMO foods. GMO anything is whack. Supporting local farmers keeps my money in my community... not to mention the food is on a different level then HEB/KROGER store bought crap./

I figure it will be the same with weed... they will use it to make it easy to grower in the masses, better to transport, more yield, less desease resistant... but I doubt they will think much of the end user.

 

[subfloral]

I doubt those in favor of GM cannabis have spent even 8 hours doing research on GM of cannabis or any plant.I'd bet most lack the brain power to understand the research papers available for free. try google scholar and see if I'm not right.-

are you serious dude!? i work in a lab 5 days a week... i say it is you who are close minded... undereducated... and naive...

its this hippy crap that really gets my goat... i'm all for a debate on morality or whatever... but seriously... get your facts straight before you start spouting out this romantic half cocked diarreah of the keyboard

and how about this man... is anything unnatural? really... is the beaver lodge unnatural? like gnosis was saying earlier, we wouldn't be here the way that we know it without GM plants... and yes selective breeding is genetic modification... it's just done indirectly... maybe the corn and potatoes you are eating are unnatural and you should only eat wild type varieties of plants... good luck getting your nutrition though

yeah... we are overpopulating the world... maybe we should just cut to the chase and start detonating nuclear warheads... i mean we don't need all these people right? screw it... why bother? we shouldn't try to come up with any more technologies because they are unnatural and unhippie...

our only hope for a humane solution to our ecological footprint is through technology... although the himmlers of the world would probably just rather kill out the "weak"

maybe you need to do a little google scholaring buddy

i work with genetics every day... please know what you are talking about before you start insulting people...

the biosphere does have a way of balancing itself out... but its abilities are limited as long as it's under constant assault by polluting and destructive forces... but i say it's not the people that should be done away with, its the polluting and destructive forces...
it is well within our ability to solve our problems humanely and technologically, if we just work together toward it
the problem with this hippie group-think is that there is no room for rationality... people are evil horrible creatures that the world would be much better off without...

but yes, like alaeddin was saying, there is a growing problem with the situation with the genetically modified and patented plant pollen , and it needs to be addressed, i just don't think that banning genetic modification or stem cell research or gay marriage is the answer.. sorry... maybe i'm the only one who sees a connection between attitudes on those three issues... my family for generations were farmers, so trust me, i feel the plight of the farmer... there is always a double-edged sword with every new technology... look at albert einstein... he never wanted anyone to make a bomb, but he knew they probably would... and this man.. a genious... decides that humanity would still be better off if he kept developing the field of nuclear physics...
sorry... i don't like being like this on a web board... i'm only here for pot... but when i see such ignorance being spouted out, i feel i have to speak up

 

[subfloral]

i believe that i did state a couple of possibilities of desirable traits, perhaps pest and disease resistance... that's not the point here though... i'm all for supporting local farmers too... i get all my produce locally... just because you are for the advancement of technology doesn't mean that you are against people and farmers and whatever... and i don't really know what genome mapping in itself really accomplishes... mapping is just deciphering the genetic code... it's a step that must be taken before anything else can be accomplished... and i don't remember who said it and i don't have time to go back and look... the people involved in GM research are not clumsy bumbling fools... lifetimes are dedicated to this study... if we step outside a plane may fall on us so it's safer not to even open the door

 

[Daytripper]

wow! where did this guy come from... for somebody with so much "advanced" knowledge, he sure didn't know what he was talking about.... those lusting corporations huh?



i .................................................our genetic modification (oh wait! cause that's exactly what selective breeding is isn't it)

No. Genetic modifaction is not the same as selective breeding.

Modern GM plants are trans genic and have genes from another species like bacteria, moths, fish, worms put into food plants. Sure a gene is a gene but this is "alien genes" yes thats a techinical term , look it up genius!

-ezra-, could you be bothered to define genetic modifaction? Hey how about list the methods you are familiar with and see as having the most future potential, if you want to move this up a notch. Maybe you don't?

Hey -ezra- imagine a "mom & pop" genetic modifaction home kit? WOW!!

Not that impossible right now today.

 

[subfloral]

look at those two words... genetic modification... it's a general term for any type of genetic modification... transgenic modification is different... it's a type of modification

 

[Mibri]

Subfloral. Very nice said. I couldn't agree more. Pretty rude to insult people for an opinion. I guess in this discussion there's only space for people with his opinion on this issue. The more i think and read about how genes work, the less scared i am to manipulate with it. WE ARE DOING IT AND HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR SEVEREL HUNDREDS OF YEARS, THAT'S WHY U CAN BUY ALL YOUR NICE FRUITS AND VEGETABLES IN THE SHOPS. Man - i just hate being called unintelligent. Think about how little problems we have with the modificated plants. I know that sometimes small problems occure, but we have way more benefits than troubles from the modified plants. U probably couldn't find a single plant in a shop that has not been selective manipulated. Now we can just do it faster, and we can fix the problems when they occure. The original plant genes a safely stored for fixing problems if they occure. Well - i agree with Subfloral.

 

[Mibri]

Agree - genes that are modied in any way are modificated genes. Yes, transgenic modification is just a type of modification, among others

 

[Hella Fella]

I totally support genetic manipulation of ANY species, including humans....

It's a totally new feild of science to explore, along with stem cell's.


Just think if back in the 50's people were all skeptical of traveling into outerspace??

Remember the scientists that though the Trinity test was going to be the end of the world? They though atomics could possibly set-off a chain reaction in the earth's atmosphere that would destroy life as we know it!


Just think of all the detriment that the nay-sayer's cause to scientific understanding!

 

[Daytripper]

I doubt those in favor of GM cannabis have spent even 8 hours doing research on GM of cannabis or any plant.I'd bet most lack the brain power to understand the research papers available for free. try google scholar and see if I'm not right.-

are you serious dude!?



i work in a lab 5 days a week...


i say it is you who are close minded... undereducated... and naive...

its this hippy crap that really gets my goat... i'm all for a debate on morality or whatever... but seriously... get your facts straight before you start spouting out this romantic half cocked diarreah of the keyboard

and how about this man... is anything unnatural? really... is the beaver lodge unnatural? like gnosis was saying earlier, we wouldn't be here the way that we know it without GM plants... and yes selective breeding is genetic modification... it's just done indirectly... maybe the corn and potatoes you are eating are unnatural and you should only eat wild type varieties of plants... good luck getting your nutrition though

yeah... we are overpopulating the world... maybe we should just cut to the chase and start detonating nuclear warheads... i mean we don't need all these people right? screw it... why bother? we shouldn't try to come up with any more technologies because they are unnatural and unhippie...

our only hope for a humane solution to our ecological footprint is through technology... although the himmlers of the world would probably just rather kill out the "weak"

maybe you need to do a little google scholaring buddy




i work with genetics every day... please know what you are talking about before you start insulting people...




the biosphere does have a way of balancing itself out... but its abilities are limited as long as it's under constant assault by polluting and destructive forces... but i say it's not the people that should be done away with, its the polluting and destructive forces...
it is well within our ability to solve our problems humanely and technologically, if we just work together toward it
the problem with this hippie group-think is that there is no room for rationality... people are evil horrible creatures that the world would be much better off without...

but yes, like alaeddin was saying, there is a growing problem with the situation with the genetically modified and patented plant pollen , and it needs to be addressed, i just don't think that banning genetic modification or stem cell research or gay marriage is the answer.. sorry... maybe i'm the only one who sees a connection between attitudes on those three issues... my family for generations were farmers, so trust me, i feel the plight of the farmer... there is always a double-edged sword with every new technology... look at albert einstein... he never wanted anyone to make a bomb, but he knew they probably would... and this man.. a genious... decides that humanity would still be better off if he kept developing the field of nuclear physics...
sorry... i don't like being like this on a web board... i'm only here for pot... but when i see such ignorance being spouted out, i feel i have to speak up

Dude your rant indicates you work in a meth lab. Look up the defination of GM genetic modifaction.

Google GM corn or soybeans and find out what makes them considered geneticly modified.

..... i work in a lab 5 days a week...


.............i work with genetics every day... please know what you are talking about before you start insulting people...

Your posts show your great knowledge. LOL!

 

[hoyt]

most of the time, i can form an opinion quite fast and set it in stone. however, this one i just cant do. im not a religious person, so 'playing god' and all that bs doesn't effect my opinion in genetic engineering in general. essentially, genetic engineering is speeding up the process of evolution, provided the correct conditions, be it transgenic engineering or not.

 

[Tirs]

Dude your rant indicates you work in a meth lab. Look up the defination of GM genetic modifaction.

Daytripper you will get better response if you weren't a complete and utter asshole to people.

Corporate genitic engineering of cannabis has already occured.

I would still like to see your evidence of this.



That being said I can understand why some people have been so opposed to GE in this discussion. No one here advocated transgenic engineering.

CONSIDER THIS: through genetic engineering a line of cannabis is created and manipulated so it can only reproduce within its own line. This new line is therefore a new species with no laws regulating its use or growth. :smile: get it?

I will withdraw this comment that I said light heartedly in my first post because I can see how that could cause criticism and confuse people on my stance, sorry if that helped lead to the drama.

With that out of the way I still think GE is a tool that should be used. Alot of the purists argue against it as a shortcut and it surely is but how long will the traditional breeding path take? People have been selectively breeding cannabis for near 3,000 years now and we have nothing near the holy grail.

Zamalito asked what it should be used for. Take for example DJ short who is widely regarded as one of our times best breeders and his creation blueberry. DJ has been working with this for 20 years now. He started with land race genetics, did things by the book and their are still defects in the line as anyone can see. How much longer would it take to restore vigor and ease of growth to the line all the while preserving the unique high aroma and taste if DJ has already put 20 years of work into it?

Another example, goals change over time, hence stealth plants such as lowryder. How about inserting the AF gene into another cultivar know for producing quality buds for both speed and potency.

As for DNA being patented I don't agree with that, but thats a problem with the LAW not GE. I think the law has a lot of catching up to do with technologies and regulating these sorts of things.

See if we can't genetically engineer some superior humans to fight in our countries wars and then clone the shit out of them! Whew!! Fucking up all our world is a fucking blast!!!

As for GE in humans, again I meant non-transgenic. It is no fault of a person to be born predisposed to cancer. I advocate that people should be able to be born and live a NORMAL life not a superhuman one... some people watch too much scifi/conspiracy stuff.