Gas Prices Are Insane!!!!!

[SpasticGramps]

Why isn't big oil using the leases they already hold? Too much supply makes the price drop.

I thought we didn't have enough supply to really make a drop in the bucket? Now all of a sudden if the greedy bastards drilled all their leases the price of oil would tank? Can't have your cake and eat it too.

The leasing situation is a little more complicated than that. Before the crash when the price of NatGas was soaring companies where buying up leases like mad. Now a lot of these leases aren't profitable because gas is so low. So they aren't being drilled. If they don't drill them the companies will eventually lose the lease (time depends on state) and they will eat shit on all those purchases. The incentive is always to drill as much as the market allows. There's no conspiracy where all the oil executives are huddled around hoarding their leases and not drilling on them.

And, on Federal Land this administration is issuing a lot less permits for drilling. Can't utilize federal land unless Big Brother says it's ok.

Don't forget, these folks want the price to stay high. These bastards love all the world tensions and OPEC machinations that make western oil companies as rich as some of the nations they exploit.

I'm not saying big oil doesn't exploit other countries. They do, with the help and protection of the US Armed Forces of course.

Those who want lower prices AND less government control need to recognize these two aspects are diametrically opposed.

So by that logic that best thing to do for prices would be to nationalize the oilfields and set capital price controls yes?

Hate your gub, by gawd. Shout freedom from the rooftops. Just resist the impulse that suggests rich capitalists want as much as they can possibly get, even to the point of ripping off Joe public.

"Just resist the impulse that suggests rich fascists want as much as they can possibly get, even to the point of ripping off Joe public."

That's more accurate IMO.

 

[Moppel]

dutch gas price is kinda double of what you guys pay.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I thought we didn't have enough supply to really make a drop in the bucket? Now all of a sudden if the greedy bastards drilled all their leases the price of oil would tank? Can't have your cake and eat it too.

That's exactly what they're doing. There's easy oil to exact, it's sitting under lease so nobody else takes it from them. So, while the easy-to-get stuff is secured but not delivered, the elevated price secures the capital to go after the stuff that should be too expensive to risk national security over and should instead be invested in alternatives energies.

nice try, though

The leasing situation is a little more complicated than that.

The way I look at things is to not oversimplify too much to make my conclusions appear more plausible nor make things too complicated to understand. The report is in English and the math is simple. The majority of our estimated production remains in the ground while western energy companies frack geography and chase tar sands. We can't get these nice cozy prices unless we remove elements of the supply chain. We can't raise it too fast or American's will stop excessive driving. So how do we get it nice and cozy yet not get so greedy we stall consumption like we've done repeatedly over the last few decades?

That's easy. Take the 2% we contribute to the global market and make sure it goes elsewhere, especially the heavy Alaskan crude we don't particularly want. Then it's almost as if we don't even have a domestic oil industry.

Before the crash when the price of NatGas was soaring companies where buying up leases like mad. Now a lot of these leases aren't profitable because gas is so low. So they aren't being drilled. If they don't drill them the companies will eventually lose the lease (time depends on state) and they will eat shit on all those purchases. The incentive is always to drill as much as the market allows. There's no conspiracy where all the oil executives are huddled around hoarding their leases and not drilling on them.

And, on Federal Land this administration is issuing a lot less permits for drilling. Can't utilize federal land unless Big Brother says it's ok. I'm not saying big oil doesn't exploit other countries. They do, with the help and protection of the US Armed Forces of course.So by that logic that best thing to do for prices would be to nationalize the oilfields and set capital price controls yes? "Just resist the impulse that suggests rich fascists want as much as they can possibly get, even to the point of ripping off Joe public."

That's more accurate IMO.

I know you have both data and cleshay to examine. I didn't know you focus exclusively on the cleshay.

... more than 70 percent of the tens of millions of offshore acres under lease are inactive, neither producing nor currently subject to approved or pending exploration or development plans. This includes almost 24 million inactive leased acres in the Gulf of Mexico, which potentially could hold more than 11 billion barrels of oil and 50 trillion cubic feet of natural gas.

For onshore leases, the review found that approximately 45 percent of all leases and approximately 57 percent of all leased acres are inactive. That means that out of a total of over 38 million leased onshore acres, almost 22 million leased onshore acres that are not being used.

 

[SpasticGramps]

So, while the easy-to-get stuff is secured but not delivered,

Where is this Spindletop "easy stuff" the DOI is going on about lol? There really isn't anymore "easy" stuff to get. The new technology driving this boom, directional drilling, doesn't come cheap. There of course are what we consider "easy" wells, but a lot of these deeper areas are pushing the temperature limits of currently available electronic tools. Once you hit 375F, MWD tools and motors.... shit just starts to melt and not work anymore.

Beyond that the oilfield is growing as fast as it possibly can. It's easy to say "yeah go drill all these leases tomorrow", but there just aren't enough trained people to do so. The oil patch is full of worms right now that don't know what the fuck they are doing as it is. Blowing rigs up and killing people. When I started at my company we had 5 MWD kits. We have 50 now and are building 5 more by end of summer. In 8 years. If we grow any faster my head is going to pop off.

The oilfield grows slowly, but collapses overnight. Takes a long time to make a worm a hand. Doesn't take but a second to tell the hand to packs his rags. This is a feast or famine industry.

should instead be invested in alternatives energies.

nice try, though

World's Largest Solar Plant, With Second Largest Ever Department of Energy Loan Guarantee, Files For Bankruptcy

So how do we get it nice and cozy yet not get so greedy we stall consumption like we've done repeatedly over the last few decades?

Stop debasing our currency would be a nice start.

I know you have both data and cleshay to examine. I didn't know you focus exclusively on the cleshay.

Data? Yum Yum Yes. Cleshay(Cliche ) Cliche sometimes offers flavorful commentary of our quagmire.

 

[HempKat]

0% interest. 0% down. No credit no problem. Subprime car bubble in the making.

No not quite that bad, at least not around my neck of the woods. The only pitches going on for the sub prime crowd have been from local used car dealerships. The new car dealerships all have great sounding ads with what seems like great deals until the rapid voice at the end that gives all the legal terms says "promotional offer only valid for customers with approved credit, not all customers will qualify" or something very close to that.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Where is this Spindletop "easy stuff" the DOI is going on about lol? There really isn't anymore "easy" stuff to get.

I'll pass on the word play. If you're suggesting that steaming tar sands are as easy to exploit as liquid oil I'll leave it there.

The new technology driving this boom, directional drilling, doesn't come cheap. There of course are what we consider "easy" wells, but a lot of these deeper areas are pushing the temperature limits of currently available electronic tools. Once you hit 375F, MWD tools and motors.... shit just starts to melt and not work anymore.

I think the oil is estimated in billions of barrels and the natural gas figure is estimated in trillions.

It's easy to say "yeah go drill all these leases tomorrow",

- the figures are compelling. Nobody said "all" nor "tomorrow".

but there just aren't enough trained people to do so. The oil patch is full of worms right now that don't know what the fuck they are doing as it is. Blowing rigs up and killing people. When I started at my company we had 5 MWD kits. We have 50 now and are building 5 more by end of summer. In 8 years. If we grow any faster my head is going to pop off.

The oilfield grows slowly, but collapses overnight. Takes a long time to make a worm a hand. Doesn't take but a second to tell the hand to packs his rags. This is a feast or famine industry.

World's Largest Solar Plant, With Second Largest Ever Department of Energy Loan Guarantee, Files For Bankruptcy

Stop debasing our currency would be a nice start.
Data? Yum Yum Yes. Cleshay(Cliche ) Cliche sometimes offers flavorful commentary of our quagmire.

Never made the argument we're not drilling enough. I hypothesized we're exploiting more expensive sources to maintain the high price. We have estimated billions of barrels of oil and trillions of units of gas laying dormant while we're fracking and boiling tar sand. Each spike renders a higher trough. Sooner or later all these dormant leases will fetch inflated prices.

If Dick's energy policy was above board, it wouldn't have been secret.

 

[SpasticGramps]

I'll pass on the word play. If you're suggesting that steaming tar sands are as easy to exploit as liquid oil I'll leave it there.

Tar sands is an extremely inefficient way to extract oil relative to conventional drilling. And it's even harder to refine.

We have estimated billions of barrels of oil and trillions of units of gas laying dormant while we're fracking and boiling tar sand.

We do, but what you are misunderstanding is that these leases that aren't being drilled right now are not "easy" formations. Oil companies aren't sitting on shallow well leases where they can go drill a 5000ft straight hole and produce 300bl/day like days of yonder.

That oil and gas doesn't exist anymore. Those leases are being produced or have run dry by now. It sounds like you think oil companies are sitting on a bunch of Spindletop like leases, but are waiting to drill them while they go around fracking and boiling tar sands. That's not the case. They are fracking and boiling tar sands because that's the most effective way to get what oil is out there.

Many of these leases companies are sitting on are in shale formations that will require directional drilling and fracking to produce. And a lot of the leases are deep formations (Lower Haynesville,etc and are HOT) Yeah, there are billions of barrels of oil and trillions in gas, but there is only one way to get it effectively and it's not easy little straight holes.

EDIT: When I say Spindletop like leases I'm refering to the Spindletop find outside of Galveston. It was a massive find back in the day at around 1,800ft. Back then you just had to poke a little hole in the ground and oil would come gushing out. Those days are long long gone. Every major on shore play right now is minimum 6000ft TVD (true vertical depth). Most are 10,000ft ++ TVD.

 

[SpasticGramps]

The way I look at things is to not oversimplify too much to make my conclusions appear more plausible nor make things too complicated to understand. The report is in English and the math is simple.

Unfortunately oversimplifying is exactly what you are doing. That report is overly simple while I suspect being purposely misleading to those who don't understand how the oilfield works.

 

[HempKat]

Tar sands is an extremely inefficient way to extract oil relative to conventional drilling. And it's even harder to refine. We do, but what you are misunderstanding is that these leases that aren't being drilled right now are not "easy" formations. Oil companies aren't sitting on shallow well leases where they can go drill a 5000ft straight hole and produce 300bl/day like days of yonder.

That oil and gas doesn't exist anymore. Those leases are being produced or have run dry by now. It sounds like you think oil companies are sitting on a bunch of Spindletop like leases, but are waiting to drill them while they go around fracking and boiling tar sands. That's not the case. They are fracking and boiling tar sands because that's the most effective way to get what oil is out there.

Many of these leases companies are sitting on are in shale formations that will require directional drilling and fracking to produce. And a lot of the leases are deep formations (Lower Haynesville,etc and are HOT) Yeah, there are billions of barrels of oil and trillions in gas, but there is only one way to get it effectively and it's not easy little straight holes.

EDIT: When I say Spindletop like leases I'm refering to the Spindletop find outside of Galveston. It was a massive find back in the day at around 1,800ft. Back then you just had to poke a little hole in the ground and oil would come gushing out. Those days are long long gone. Every major on shore play right now is minimum 6000ft TVD (true vertical depth). Most are 10,000ft ++ TVD.

I think the difference in views or the potential misunderstanding is in the term "easy". I believe Disco is saying that Fracking for natural gas and boiling tar sands is harder/more expensive then some of the inactive leases even though they (the inactive leases) might require directional drilling. That if true would suggest the oil companies are going after more expensive to produce sources now to keep the price high and then once people are more used to the price at the pump caused by the difficulty of the sources then they'll go after the easier (even though they require directional drilling) sources so they can get a better price on those easier sources.

You on the other hand seem to be suggesting that the directional drilling requirement actually makes those source more expensive and therefore boiling tar sands and fracking for natural gas are actually the cheapest/esiest sources now? Is that the case then? If so then one would have to conclude we (consumers) are screwed no matter how many sources we might find and exploit in the US.

 

[SpasticGramps]

I think the difference in views or the potential misunderstanding is in the term "easy". I believe Disco is saying that Fracking for natural gas and boiling tar sands is harder/more expensive then some of the inactive leases even though they (the inactive leases) might require directional drilling.

Right, so there are very few horizontal wells that aren't fracked these days.

Chances are if you are directional drilling you are probably fracking. If you aren't fracking it still isn't cheap. Average independents charge $10,000/day for directional drilling. Majors charge up to $25,000/ day depending on equipment used.

You frack for oil too. It's how you get it out of the shale. It's why the Eagleford (south texas) and Balkan shale (North Dakota) are so big right now.

That if true would suggest the oil companies are going after more expensive to produce sources now to keep the price high and then once people are more used to the price at the pump caused by the difficulty of the sources then they'll go after the easier (even though they require directional drilling) sources so they can get a better price on those easier sources.

The name of the game has always been to get the most product out of the ground at the cheapest cost. You have to remember back to the days when the oilfield started. You could poke a hole 1,000ft in the ground and hit oil.

This was Spindletop early 1900's (it's where Chevron, Gulf Oil, and Texaco come from)

Fields like that don't exist anymore. Every decade that goes by we have to develop ways to go deeper and refine methods to achieve maximum productive capacity per well. Those "easy" straight hole fields provided the energy that powered the 20th century. Gotta find new stuff now which always means going deeper and innovating. It's the quest to conquer depth that magnifies the complexity of the task. You can think of it like being in the ocean. If you are just snorkeling you need a couple of things, if diving down to 100ft you'll need good scuba gear, and if exploring the deepest ocean floor's you need extremely sophisticated equipment.

We were snorkeling in the early 1900's. All the easy shallow stuff has been discovered used and is old news aside from attempted reproduction of played out fields. In 2012 the oilfield is scuba diving.

No one is sitting on loads of old salt dome leases with billions of barrels oil. I'm sorry, but that's ludicrous. These "inactive leases" are the same hot formations that everyone is drilling now. We are constantly exploring for the next big play. You find a field. Drill it until it plays out and move onto the next big play.

Except for natural gas fields right now. A lot of people are going to lose money and their leases to those rights because they aren't profitable to develop. Horizontal drilling and fracking has created such a supply glut that the NatGas price has crashed. Gas fields are shutting down. I'm not being hyperbolic when I say the oilfield shuts down over night. This has got to be the most volatile industry out there. Haynesville shale and east texas is dead. Boom bust.

I'm not surprised the % of undeveloped leases is so high right now. Companies have been buying up leases like crazy for years. Bubble like. The oilfield has been booming hard for the past decade minus the little 08 blip.

You on the other hand seem to be suggesting that the directional drilling requirement actually makes those source more expensive and therefore boiling tar sands and fracking for natural gas are actually the cheapest/esiest sources now? Is that the case then? If so then one would have to conclude we (consumers) are screwed no matter how many sources we might find and exploit in the US.

Directional drilling is what makes fracking so expensive. Particularly horizontal drilling. Because there is so much more surface area of payzone drilled you need more water and chemicals and equipment to frack. Fracking became big because of the explosion in horizontal drilling.

The oilfield is a 24/7/365 race to get the most product out at the cheapest price to boost margin. It's always simply drilling maximum surface area at lowest cost. There are no magic "inactive" easy to produce fields that are going to feed our global insatiable appetite for oil in the future. You drill and drain field to field, formation to formation. It's parasitic if you think about it.

 

[still pluggin]

dutch gas price is kinda double of what you guys pay.

Yes but what percentage of your countries core/base of hard-working people need to drive 15-30 miles to work every day?

It doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to consider US geography and gas prices and see what the rich did..

 

[HempKat]

dutch gas price is kinda double of what you guys pay.

Yeah but the Netherlands is kind of a fraction of the size of the US. The entire country is roughly the size of one of the US's smallest states, Maryland.

 

[Easygrowing]

it,s a "Criminal" world-in a way.Out in the yak-thats free-make waterways allover-we got to much rain anyways-no trafiiclights and so-much Easyer.
Take it.

 

[sso]

i think im getting myself one of those motorized electric scooters that go 25kmph and dont need a license (yet, lol, fucking gov)

gas prices, are not going to go down.

probably gonna get alot higher..

..course im gonna have to get some good allweather suit , cause i live in frigging iceland lol. but it beats the alternative, forking out obscene amounts of money just to get to the frigging grocery store lol.

 

[trichrider]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...t-in-fight-against-energy-crisis-8217382.html


A small British company has produced the first "petrol from air" using a revolutionary technology that promises to solve the energy crisis as well as helping to curb global warming by removing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.


Air Fuel Synthesis in Stockton-on-Tees has produced five litres of petrol since August when it switched on a small refinery that manufactures gasoline from carbon dioxide and water vapour.

The company hopes that within two years it will build a larger, commercial-scale plant capable of producing a ton of petrol a day. It also plans to produce green aviation fuel to make airline travel more carbon-neutral.

Tim Fox, head of energy and the environment at the Institution of Mechanical Engineers in London, said: "It sounds too good to be true, but it is true. They are doing it and I've been up there myself and seen it. The innovation is that they have made it happen as a process. It's a small pilot plant capturing air and extracting CO2 from it based on well known principles. It uses well-known and well-established components but what is exciting is that they have put the whole thing together and shown that it can work."

Although the process is still in the early developmental stages and needs to take electricity from the national grid to work, the company believes it will eventually be possible to use power from renewable sources such as wind farms or tidal barrages.

"We've taken carbon dioxide from air and hydrogen from water and turned these elements into petrol," said Peter Harrison, the company's chief executive, who revealed the breakthrough at a conference at the Institution of Mechanical Engineers in London.

"There's nobody else doing it in this country or indeed overseas as far as we know. It looks and smells like petrol but it's a much cleaner and clearer product than petrol derived from fossil oil," Mr Harrison told The Independent.

"We don't have any of the additives and nasty bits found in conventional petrol, and yet our fuel can be used in existing engines," he said.

"It means that people could go on to a garage forecourt and put our product into their car without having to install batteries or adapt the vehicle for fuel cells or having hydrogen tanks fitted. It means that the existing infrastructure for transport can be used," Mr Harrison said.

Being able to capture carbon dioxide from the air, and effectively remove the principal industrial greenhouse gas resulting from the burning of fossil fuels such as oil and coal, has been the holy grail of the emerging green economy.

Using the extracted carbon dioxide to make petrol that can be stored, transported and used as fuel for existing engines takes the idea one step further. It could transform the environmental and economic landscape of Britain, Mr Harrison explained.

"We are converting renewable electricity into a more versatile, useable and storable form of energy, namely liquid transport fuels. We think that by the end of 2014, provided we can get the funding going, we can be producing petrol using renewable energy and doing it on a commercial basis," he said.

"We ought to be aiming for a refinery-scale operation within the next 15 years. The issue is making sure the UK is in a good place to be able to set up and establish all the manufacturing processes that this technology requires. You have the potential to change the economics of a country if you can make your own fuel," he said.

The initial plan is to produce petrol that can be blended with conventional fuel, which would suit the high-performance fuels needed in motor sports. The technology is also ideal for remote communities that have abundant sources of renewable electricity, such solar energy, wind turbines or wave energy, but little in the way of storing it, Mr Harrison said.

"We're talking to a number of island communities around the world and other niche markets to help solve their energy problems.

"You're in a market place where the only way is up for the price of fossil oil and at some point there will be a crossover where our fuel becomes cheaper," he said.

Although the prototype system is designed to extract carbon dioxide from the air, this part of the process is still too inefficient to allow a commercial-scale operation.

The company can and has used carbon dioxide extracted from air to make petrol, but it is also using industrial sources of carbon dioxide until it is able to improve the performance of "carbon capture".

Other companies are working on ways of improving the technology of carbon capture, which is considered far too costly to be commercially viable as it costs up to £400 for capturing one ton of carbon dioxide.

However, Professor Klaus Lackner of Columbia University in New York said that the high costs of any new technology always fall dramatically.

"I bought my first CD in the 1980s and it cost $20 but now you can make one for less than 10 cents. The cost of a light bulb has fallen 7,000-fold during the past century," Professor Lackner said.


...but yeah, they'll make prices high enough to sustain profitability...the way it works; or it never sees daylight. it's a cruel world.

 

[Stoner4Life]

gas prices, are not going to go down.

probably gonna get alot higher..

..course im gonna have to get some good allweather suit , cause i live in frigging iceland lol. but it beats the alternative, forking out obscene amounts of money just to get to the frigging grocery store lol.

you could do it w/class and buy yourself a HardKnock Kikker, they come in a good range of cc sizes from 49cc through the 250cc v-twin. 4 stroke engine ~ 4 speed tranny ~ an adult mini-bike that screams cool as you putt on down the road @ speeds up to 75mph (120 kmh).......

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it's @ www.kikker5150.com

 

[supermanlives]

here in cali we get boned like no other state . fucking gas for a while was higher here than hawaii. or thats what news said. they got us by the balls. prob laughing saying lets see how much we can charge these suckers.

 

[Stoner4Life]

price in northern minnesota was $3.56 today, using a specific cc & additionally a competitors coupon took 7 cents more off of that.......

 

[wantaknow]

fox news told me obama did it for the election,happens every election

 

[Stoner4Life]

fox news told me obama did it for the election,happens every election

you are correct sir!!!!!!!

just mention Obama's name and you can carve another dime offn' that price., buying America's vote one gallon at a time.