Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

[real ting]

AS I POSTED EARLIER I HAVE A VERY HEARTY ROOT APHID http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_ZxqcV3iCs

I FOLLOWED SPLEEBALES WELL RESEARCHED ADVICE AND I TRIED TO USE BAYER TREE SHRUB KILLER I USED 15ML/G AND SOAKED FOR 10MIN THIS DID NOT KILL MY ROOT APHIDS.

I WOULD LIKE TO NOTE THAT I HAVE HAD GREAT SUCCESS WITH BAYER KILLER ON NORMAL ROOT APHIDS.

OUT OF DESPERATION I USED ORCHARD INSECT KILLER (LAMBDA-CYHALOTHRIN .05%) THIS IS MEANT TO BE USED AS A SPRAY BUT I USED IT AS A SOAK I USED 1 TBS PER GALLON AND SOAKED FOR 10MIN. IT HAS BEEN TWO WEEKS SINCE THE SOAK AND NO BUGS!! AND ALL MY PLANTS LOOK FINE, NO NOTICEABLE SIDE AFFECTS.
I DONT HAVE ANY INFO ON HOW DANGEROUS (LAMBDA-CYHALOTHRIN .05%) IS, BUT I AM VERY GRATEFUL THIS FINALLY WORKED!!

I have noticed these small white fast moving "root aphids" also, they seem to be all over the coco even after strong doses of imid. I will try some of the spectracide triazicide, I think it's the same stuff. Did you have to reapply? Since it's a contact killer it seems like you would to totally eliminate it.

And to dippin61, yes it really sucks if we are being sold mediums that come with such a terrible pest, and possibly even fungal or bacterial diseases. I would like to continue using coco, but it's hard to know whether or not I should. In any case it seems like once the insects are present they really like the coco medium.

 

[dippin61]

4 days later, pretty confident, that at this stage.. i dont see any bugs. plants look great.

 

[darrmann]

I have noticed these small white fast moving "root aphids" also, they seem to be all over the coco even after strong doses of imid. I will try some of the spectracide triazicide, I think it's the same stuff. Did you have to reapply? Since it's a contact killer it seems like you would to totally eliminate it.

And to dippin61, yes it really sucks if we are being sold mediums that come with such a terrible pest, and possibly even fungal or bacterial diseases. I would like to continue using coco, but it's hard to know whether or not I should. In any case it seems like once the insects are present they really like the coco medium.

your very right and you would think they could get a handle on it. I was using cannas bio terra plus and its a peat mix and just like cocco fungus knats love it and i also got them in the bag. I had a hell of a time controlling it. What you have to do is either get nematodes and water into transplants then maybe a couple weeks later reapply. They are microscopic in the sponge they come in and there supposed to kill the larvae or eat. get stickys or a spray for the flyers. or get knat predators which I prefer to have. there like the lady bug to the aphid. its a bug and will crawl around eating the larvae. but unlike nematodes you can see these guys. also an easy thing to do is put some cinnamon sprinkled all over top. look it up really works.but not as good as predators.

 

[bubbler720]

This contribution offers the exact formula I used to eradicate my root aphid infestation. I derived the successful formula from reading every post to this 54 page long thread. In particular I give thanks to spleebale, FoCo and milehighmedical for their posts. This post is designed to contribute to the thread by offering my cure in a simple easy to read direction.

I made this application 7 days ago. The results are solid – no more bugs - complete annihilation achieved. I had been using Botaniguard ES / Insecticide Soap / Azamax rotational drench with good kill results, but the root aphids – tank crawlers and winged aphids – would always return.

SETUP
1. Hyrdo
2. Medium: rock wool
3. Ionic nutes

SYMPTOMS:
1. Stagnated Growth
2. Yellowing leaves
3. Rust spotted leaves (Mag deficiency)
4. Leaves / flowering ladies drying up crispy 2-3 weeks premature
5. Lackluster results
6. Hundreds of black tick-looking ‘tank crawlers’
7. Winged root aphids eating leaves
8. Winged root aphids sticking in flower
9. Death in veg / early veg stage
10. Discovered on loose roots and upon inspection inside rock wool: black tick looking ‘tank crawlers’ attached to roots, sucking life out of the lovely ladies
11. On prematurely dead flowering ladies: black root mass inside rock wool

*Note all these symptoms are before I applied the formula I’m about to share:

SUCCESSFUL FORMULA:

A. LADIES in VEG & MOTHERS
1. 10 ml/ gallon of Bayer Complete Insect Killer. Mix into Res with fresh ph treated water. Turn on pumps, feed ladies with Bayer solution for 2-4 hours. (2 hours if they’re on the smaller side, 4 hours if ladies are larger)
2. Flush out all Bayer solution from Res. Wait 2 hours.
3. Fill Res with fresh ph balanced water again; add 3ml/gallon of H202 (hydrogen peroxide). Run pumps, flush through ladies for 1 hour. This step will help the ladies to shed rotten root mass.
4. Flush out H202 solution. Wait 2 hours.
5. Fill Res as normal, with regular nutes but at only 50% strength.
6. Add 10ml / gallon Cannazym. This root treatment will act like ‘Neosporin’ on your damaged roots. It will heal them, strengthen them, and allow them to start up taking nutrients.
7. Return to regular feeding schedule.
8. 3 days later: Add 5ml/gallon Rhizotonic. Another Canna product, this will again stimulate root growth.
9. 4 days later (7 days after application) bring ppm up to normal nutrient levels.

B. LADIES in FLOWER
1. 10 ml/ gallon Spectracide Insect Killer (with Gamma-Cyhalothrin). Mix into Res with fresh ph treated water. Turn on pumps, feed ladies with Spectracide solution for 2-4 hours. (2 hours if they’re on the smaller side, 4 hours if ladies are larger)
2. Flush out all Spectracide solution from Res. Wait 2 hours.
3. Fill Res with fresh ph balanced water again, add 3ml/gallon of H202 (hydrogen peroxide). Run pumps, flush through ladies for 1 hour. This step will help the ladies to shed rotten root mass.
4. Flush out H202 solution. Wait 2 hours.
5. Fill Res as normal, with regular nutes but at only 50% strength.
6. Add 10ml / gallon Cannazym. This root treatment will act like ‘Neosporin’ on your damaged roots. It will heal them, strengthen them, and allow them to start up taking nutrients.
7. Return to regular feeding schedule.
8. 3 days later: Add 5ml/gallon Rhizotonic. Another Canna product, this will again stimulate root growth.
9. 4 days later (7 days after application) bring ppm up to normal nutrient levels.


Both the Bayer Complete and the Spectracide (both in concentrate) can be purchased at the Home Depot for approx. $10-$12. The Canna products are specialty and more costly.

As I mentioned earlier, I extracted this eradication formula from members who have had success– I’m simply posting one simple step-by-step way to rid your garden of these nasty pests once and for all. As for chem worries, you can go back and read the many informative posts that debate the issue – and the conclusion I came to along with those with the most knowledge & experience: these chems are not dangerous if used properly.

Good luck, and please post your results!

 

[puff adder]

I succesfully got rid of both root aphids and fungus gnats with the Bayer Tree and Shrub (2 applications 10-15ml/gal) and a week later follow-up Azamax soil drench (both times).

At times, I felt more like a fungus gnat farmer. Gnats and coco seem to go hand-in-hand, but after fighting the RA with Imid and Azamax in veg, for the first time my rooms are free of gnats as well.

Now, in veg, and when I flip to 12-12, whether I have bugs or not, I hit my girls with Bayer Tree and Shrub (10ml/gal), and spray with Floromite/Eagle-20/Penetrator coctail, with an Azamax soil drench a week later. This works great for me, and my girls are set for the flowering duration. My rooms are bug-free now.

 

[Relentless]

it would be nice to have pics comparing mature root aphids, fungus gnats, springtails, and thrips.. anyone have a link to such pics?
edit, pg 40 has root aphids and fungus gnat pics

 

[plumbum]

does it look like root aphids?

does it look like root aphids?

my plants showing signs of deficiency, yellowing of the leaves, stunted growth.. all symptoms pointing out to root aphids.. i was treating my coco by drenching it with azatrol, pyganic pro, botanigard, and bayer tree and shrub.. it didn't work. population is much smaller now, but it is still present.. i started to look more and compare pictures on a web and realized that it doesn't look like root aphid, but more like some sort of mite living in soil..

please help me to figure out what is it?! and how to get my plants healthy again!

 

[Relentless]

son of a biatch. first i thought i had gnats, then i was almost certain i had thrips.. after seeing page 40, and seeing the winged critters with the thorax and abdomen connected i think i have ra. cant get any decent pics. ill keep trying

its weird i havent seen anything in the soil, just somethings crawling around on the box and the little shits flying.. a couple months ago it was really really bad but since i have downsized there arent nearly as many, maybe 1 or 2 a plant, if that.
but still, i know its serious!

whats the best stuff yall recommend?


i dont see any white bugs in the soil.. nothing in the soil.. just flying bugs, not many, and a few ccrawlers on the leaves..
hot conditions that are humid.. using ffof..
i treated a month and a half ago with neem. a month ago with eagle20 for pm.. and then the day before yesterday i treated with spinosad.. im just realizing that i think this may be root aphids..

i found 2 fliers and 1 crawler today and ofcourse killed them and took pics.. i just went in and searched all my ladies and couldnt find anything crawling or flieing..
PLEASE, PLEASE HELP!

 

[Relentless]

bump! heres some of the crawlers..
for sure root aphids?

 

[Albertine]

I believe the photo of the flier is a fungus gnat and the photo of the crawler is the type of aphid I am fighting. Large antenna and a pointed butt without the twin exhaust pipes are the IDs I'm going on for the flier. You should have fliers too from the aphids.
I am in soil. I am trying to get rid of them without using chems. Without a systemic it is really hard to get a total kill without repeated treatments that really add up cost wise. Whatever you use it is essential to have a barrier between pots to prevent a room wide reinfestation. I am using a Tanglefoot barrier on a coaster card under each pot to keep the crawlers contained. If you can eliminate each pot as soon as you seen them you will have a minimum of fliers.
At this point I feel like I had a wild fire that is now under control and I'm putting out spot fires. I hate to say this totally works until I've been free of them for months, but I can tell you that the Tanglefoot does work as a barrier, when double sided carpet tape did not hold them all. The Tanglefoot is like honey, and if you have a 'fence' of it, a layer thick enough that they can't 'wade' through, ie deeper than their legs, they will not go through it - I've watched. At this point I've stopped treating and am taking cuttings of any that show up with aphids.
What I am trying to say is whatever you use you have to have a way to keep any strays from reinfecting you whole grow again. If I started over I would not bother with treating -I would just take cuttings and use Tanglefoot, and keep them protected for at least the whole next grow cycle.

It's a pain in the ass but even with chems, they had to come from someplace external originally, and if they come from that same place again (medium from the grow shop is my guess), you will have a new infestation in most of your plants before you even know they are there. They move really fast from plant to plant - trust me on that!

 

[Relentless]

thanks man. currently all my plants are in veg and i wont start flowering for a couple weeks at least so itll def be at least 3months before Im harvesting. from what ive read bayers advanced lasts for 90 days so its perfect timing for me..

I plan to treat tonight with the bayers advanced..
Can anyone give me good instructions on how to use this bayers advanced? can u dunk the plant in it too or just watering the soil?
thanks!

 

[Relentless]

so for best results with the bayers advanced insect killer for root aphids, do you heavily spray the leaves with a bottle and drench the soil? and what increments? still reading, but i dont see much info so far on soil.
someone please help

 

[RetroGrow]

Follow directions on bottle and drench the soil. Works best if soil/medium is dry and plants are drinking. Should only take one application. Once the imid is in the plants, it is all over for the root aphids.

 

[Relentless]

ok great. plan to use 8tsp per gallon of the bayers advance and dunk the pots.. im gonna do it every 4 days for 3 treatments..

should I dunk or spray the foliage?

 

[reckon]

ok great. plan to use 8tsp per gallon and dunk the pots.. im gonna do it every 4 days for 3 treatments..

should I dunk or spray the foliage?

8 tsp per gallon is WAY overkill,........3 tsp/gal is PLENTY, maybe 4tsp/gal if it's a really bad infestation, but 8tsp/gal??!?! (small steps are always better than HUGE steps with cannabis)

YOU DO NOT NEED TO TREAT THE LEAVES, this stuff is systemic, once you drench the soil it gets absorbed into the plants tissues,........ALL the tissues.

Also neither root aphids OR fungus gnats are on the plants above ground, they are in the soil, or chewing your roots.

you do NOT want to use this stuff once you are flowering, as it takes more than 2 months to dissipate.

 

[Norkali]

Reckon knows what he is talking about; although I would personally add to only use the Imid on long-term mother plants; and to just trash (yes, I know...I said trash) any currents plants w/ these fuckers. It is not worth it to let a plant stay and to let the population continue to grow....in my opinion at least.

 

[plumbum]

my plants showing signs of deficiency, yellowing of the leaves, stunted growth.. all symptoms pointing out to root aphids.. i was treating my coco by drenching it with azatrol, pyganic pro, botanigard, and bayer tree and shrub.. it didn't work. population is much smaller now, but it is still present.. i started to look more and compare pictures on a web and realized that it doesn't look like root aphid, but more like some sort of mite living in soil..

please help me to figure out what is it?! and how to get my plants healthy again!

unfortunately i didn't get an answer to my cuestion.. please help me to identify this bug.. could it be one of those micro types? does anybody has an image to compare? or it is some sort of root mite??

 

[reckon]

looks like a standard red spider mite to me
http://www.helpfulgardener.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=21258

Fungus gnats look EXACTLY like tiny mosquitoes (chronomidae family)
http://blog.monsterworms.com/2009/11/26/fungus-gnats-and-worm-farm-bins/

Root aphids have a much fatter rear segment, and look more like beetles
http://ipmnews.msu.edu/landscape/La...74/Root-aphids-on-container-grown-asters.aspx

that has 8 legs (which neither aphids nor gnats have), and looks like a spider mite.

hope that answers the question

 

[Relentless]

8 tsp per gallon is WAY overkill,........3 tsp/gal is PLENTY, maybe 4tsp/gal if it's a really bad infestation, but 8tsp/gal??!?! (small steps are always better than HUGE steps with cannabis)

YOU DO NOT NEED TO TREAT THE LEAVES, this stuff is systemic, once you drench the soil it gets absorbed into the plants tissues,........ALL the tissues.

Also neither root aphids OR fungus gnats are on the plants above ground, they are in the soil, or chewing your roots.

you do NOT want to use this stuff once you are flowering, as it takes more than 2 months to dissipate.

i havent seen ones in my soil.. but ive got the small tick looking things, see pics i posted above.. fliers and crawlers..
i used like 12 tsp for a lil over 2gal on my clones i just took.. took 2 cuts of everything and isolated to a different room..
ill add a little water to dilute it some more before i water the original plants..
itll be atleast 2-3 weeks before i start flowering so itll be over 3months before im harvesting..
thanks for the response!

 

[plumbum]

looks like a standard red spider mite to me
http://www.helpfulgardener.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=21258

Fungus gnats look EXACTLY like tiny mosquitoes (chronomidae family)
http://blog.monsterworms.com/2009/11/26/fungus-gnats-and-worm-farm-bins/

Root aphids have a much fatter rear segment, and look more like beetles
http://ipmnews.msu.edu/landscape/La...74/Root-aphids-on-container-grown-asters.aspx

that has 8 legs (which neither aphids nor gnats have), and looks like a spider mite.

hope that answers the question

thank you reckon.. i agree it looks like spider mite.. at least it's much more similar looking to mite then to aphid.. do you know any mites that live in soil except predatory?? if my plants looked healthy i wouldn't worry much about it.. but they are not..