Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

[DocTim420]

^^^and worse yet, some RAs are "born pregnant"--thus guaranteeing their micro/macro "life-cycle"....and, gulp, eliminating the need for any "males".

Ohhh boy, think about that for a bit-- if the human species could duplicate that particular activity.

 

[GET MO]

Ive learned to live with them. Its some extra work but the only way for me since they fly all around outside where i stay. I mix my coco with some diatomaceous earth, crab meal, and neem seed meal. U think that would stop them but it doesnt, i believe since i feed everyday n de needs to be dry to work, also sprinkle de on tray and around shed to start, it keeps there numbers down n roots on bottom of plant healthy n bug free. I also use fabric/smart pots so they cant come from bottom. I hit with ogbiowar once then 2 weeks later botanigard then w weeks later biowar again. And finally i put a layer of playground sand bout half inch thick over top. I had did this method and thought i got rid of them, seen none in grow room or soil for 3 runs, so last round skipped botanigard ogbiowar and sand, harvested all good, didnt notice any diiference in weeds but when chopping seen some pots had flyers and runners on um, so they were already back in the garden from outdoors. Looks like its back to the treatments. They seem to like high humidity, they come strong when it rains, im guessing because flooding? Dont know, but my prevention works so I guess ill go back to it n stop trying to cut corners.
.

 

[bigbadbiddy]

I checked really vigorously on the yellow strips and I couldn't find a single one with a stubby/round abdomen.

The all had pointed abdomen so it must still be fungus gnats only...

I hadn't watered for about 3 days and let the plants dry a bit and yesterday I had a lot less flyers in the room.
Watered again with BTI and applied diatomaceous earth as a top dress.

Might be useless because the soil was still wet but I will just apply a second layer today. Also will likely lift the pots beforehand and sprinkle a thick layer on the floor before introducing the pots.


If the DE and BTI don't do the trick, what options do I have left?


If they turn out to be root aphids after all, I guess I would not only have to shut down but also discard all the soil I built. Unfortunate but not the end of the world. I would put that soil outside in the garden to grow tomatoes and stuff (which I currently do in shitty garden store soil) and just mix up a new batch of organic soil.
Would run me a couple hundred bucks but better than the alternative I suppose.

 

[DONAJTHEIII]

I checked really vigorously on the yellow strips and I couldn't find a single one with a stubby/round abdomen.

The all had pointed abdomen so it must still be fungus gnats only...

I hadn't watered for about 3 days and let the plants dry a bit and yesterday I had a lot less flyers in the room.
Watered again with BTI and applied diatomaceous earth as a top dress.

Might be useless because the soil was still wet but I will just apply a second layer today. Also will likely lift the pots beforehand and sprinkle a thick layer on the floor before introducing the pots.


If the DE and BTI don't do the trick, what options do I have left?


If they turn out to be root aphids after all, I guess I would not only have to shut down but also discard all the soil I built. Unfortunate but not the end of the world. I would put that soil outside in the garden to grow tomatoes and stuff (which I currently do in shitty garden store soil) and just mix up a new batch of organic soil.
Would run me a couple hundred bucks but better than the alternative I suppose.

Gnatnix is what I switched over from sand. I didn't like sand didn't work out for me was messy. Gnatnix is by the same company as growstones. It's a top layer I use as soon as they're in their final pot size in later veg I just rinse it out with plain water and line my coco in smarties like mentioned above. I also use sm-90 and h202 with sticky traps all these methods together don't erradicate them but knock on wood my roots are always kicking. I think your keeping it too damp when they're seedlings. Or your soil is what's bringing them in or dirty cuttings. You need to find the source regardless sorry just got here so catch me up and I'll try to help as much as I can.

 

[DocTim420]

IMO, it is better to "control" fungus gnats, than focusing to eradicate them. As long as there is "moist soil" in the room--there will always be a fungus gnat hiding. Continuous treatment of BTi (which is only effective for a few days in the gnat's 21 day life cycle), sticky cards (clip one on every container), and treating the soil before use (1-2-3 punch) is what I do.

I reclaim my grow medium (recycle is for dumpster divers...lol) and part of my regime includes applying BTi along with a pyrethrin/pbo pesticide then let the treated grow medium sit for 2-3 weeks.

Also, adding saponins (which can also be a pesticide) to your liquid feeding program (veg and flower) works for me too.

Not all sources of BTi are equal, some (like Gnatrol) is effective for a few days at most--while Mosquito Bits will release BTi for 14-21 days....remember BTi is NOT a contact killer and is effective to kill the pupa/larvae only few days during its life cycle. Apply it late--apply it too early, and your wasting money and effort.

 

[Carnack]

Its cool...obviously I hit a nerve.

BTW, I am not the one the chimed in this thread about a product that is not available to purchase on the internet. Standing by my words--"We will have to take your word for it".

UH... two seconds:

http://www.arbico-organics.com/prod...tm_content=bacillus thuringiensis israelensis

 

[DocTim420]

UH... two seconds:

http://www.arbico-organics.com/prod...tm_content=bacillus thuringiensis israelensis

The fool was talking about "VectoBac WG"...your link is to "VectoBag G"--which I included in my analysis in the following post. Go find online source for Vectbac WG and I will give you a cigar!

Ahhh, the old question, which is heavier: Pound of feathers or a pound of lead?

BTI potency in International Toxic Units (ITU) is what you want to investigate.

Gnatrol: 3000 ITU per mg @ 37.4% BTI
Mosquito Bits: 7000 ITU per mg @ 2.86% BTI
Mosquito Dunks: 7000 ITU per mg @ 10.31% BTI
Vectobac (G,GS,GR): 200 ITU per mg @ 2.8% BTI

To calculate equivalent ITU of BTI for each gram in your product: Multiply ITU number by the percent of Active Ingredient (BTI).

Gnatrol: (3000 X 37.4%) = 1,122 mg
Mosquito Bits: (7000 X 2.86%) = 200.2 mg
Mosquito Dunks: (7000 X 10.31%) = 721.7 mg
Vectobac (G,GS,GR): (200 X 2.8%) = 5.6 mg

To calculate the cost for 1 ITU "unit" requires the price and weight of the product you are comparing.

Gnatrol: 16 lbs for $400....or $0.000049123/ITU of BTI
formula ----> [(3000 X .374) X (16 X 453.59)] / $400
Mosquito Bits: 20 lbs for $120....or $0.000066073/ITU of BTI.
Mosquito Dunks: 20 dunks (3/4 lb) for $20....$0.000081460/ITU of BTI.
Vectobac (G,GS): 40 lbs for $150....$0.001476310/ITU of BTI.

The above list is in the order of cost--lowest first.

I use Mosquito Bits to control fungus gnats, for me it is a question of laying out $400 vs $120 for a bucket of BTI--and ease of use: Bits vs powder.

BTW...BTI does NOT control root aphids.

 

[Granger2]

Here you go:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Vectbac+WG&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
I'll take a Havana.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Vectbac+WG&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 

[DocTim420]

Here you go:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Vectbac+WG&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
I'll take a Havana.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Vectbac+WG&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

The question is NOT can you google it....the question--is there an online source for Vectobac WG? Who sells it and how much?

Hard to do a cost analysis without knowing the price. This Vectobac "issue" started with this statement--

...If you live anywhere near mosquitos you should be able to source your BTi in powder form under the trade name Vectobac.

Vectobac or the same product under another name can be bought in 5kg tubs for around $200....

And...more or less ended with this statement--

Perhaps we are not talking about the same product...as I can not find Vectobac WDG/WG available for sale anywhere, at least not on Google/Amazon.

According to Valent Bioservices website-- https://publichealth.valentbioscien...lth-resources/vectobac-wg-technical-use-sheet

VectoBac WG Biological Larvicide is available in the following package sizes:
• USA only
– 1 lb (0.45 kg) HDPE plastic canisters, packaged 24 per case
– 25 lb (11.3 kg) drums
• International only
– 0.5 kg HDPE plastic canisters, packaged 24 per case
– 25 kg drums

Are you sure you bought 5 kg for $200? or was it 0.5 kg? If so, I would like to know where I can buy some.

The stuff is not even sold in 5kg tubs--and I question the abnormally low price of $40/kg ($200/5kg)...especially when the formulation is at the high rate of 3000 ITU/mg. It does not make sense.

If something smells like bullshit...then it probably is.

 

[MIhomegrown]

I am glad I found this thread because I thoroughly express how much I hate gnats and aphids. I always think they won't come back but they always do. My issue in the past has always been negligence. I would see a few gnats flying around and never think too much of it. The gnats are a sign that RA's aren't too far behind. I never experienced a loss in crops but just managed to deal with them. Now I am combating them both with sns 209 drenchs and microbe lift BTI.

This past week I just noticed some ants coming into my veg room so I sprinkled some DE around the corners of the room. Turns out they have been coming to pots I have on the ground and crawling through the drain holes. I can only assume they after the RA and FG larvae. Well back to square one again.

 

[blowingupjake]

I am glad I found this thread because I thoroughly express how much I hate gnats and aphids. I always think they won't come back but they always do. My issue in the past has always been negligence. I would see a few gnats flying around and never think too much of it. The gnats are a sign that RA's aren't too far behind. I never experienced a loss in crops but just managed to deal with them. Now I am combating them both with sns 209 drenchs and microbe lift BTI.

This past week I just noticed some ants coming into my veg room so I sprinkled some DE around the corners of the room. Turns out they have been coming to pots I have on the ground and crawling through the drain holes. I can only assume they after the RA and FG larvae. Well back to square one again.

That's crazy dude! I had ants in one of my outdoor plants last summer... Bitches really did a number on the soil.

Can't imagine having to deal with that indoors.

Good luck!
Jake

 

[DocTim420]

A spray mixture of pyrethrin and DE (symbiotic relationship) is a very good "all around knockdown" for crawly critters. For added impact, add a bit of neem oil to the spray mixture.

DE rates of 8 oz/gallon is what I use. Give the spray bottle a good shake before spraying.

 

[bigbadbiddy]

For me the infestation has calmed back down after removing the lid from the propagator. Also cost me a seedling though...
The rest seem not too week and might make it.

I also had applied the DE as a topdress which was quite the pain in the ass to do and the soil had been watered beforehand so not sure how effective that actually was.
I had watered with BTI beforehand, as always recently.


Last I checked I only saw a hand full of flyers again, the yellow strips were quite covered too.

Let it go dry for 3 days now, have to water again today or tomorrow ...


I have "my soil" sitting in several large totes in another room and I haven't seen anything flying around there, ever. Just some mold and stuff when cooking and some worms who survived.

But ever since they showed up, I had never completely erradicated the flyers...

Right now it seems like I "almost got them" again but like I said, still a few flyers around yesterday and I would be surprised if I checked on the plants today and wouldn't find at least a hand full still.

If I make the environment more moist, they will likely explode again...


Like I said, since nobody seems to have other suggestions (the only thing I could think of still would be to make a "bed" of DE and put the pots on top of it to also cover the drainage wholes and make sure no flyers get in through there.. that's costly though), I guess my best course of action is to bring in this harvest and then shut down for a month or two and reboot everything.
Maybe including mixing up a new batch of soil.

 

[DocTim420]

BTW, I have yet to read a study that concluded a layer of DE on top of the soil reduces fungus gnats. The studies I have read concluded layering DE loses its effectiveness when it becomes wet.

But something magic happens when DE is suspended in water and combined with various "cides". Pryrethin has a tiny half life, but is extended when combined with PBO and further extended when DE is added to the equation (evidently, diatoms are able to hold many active ingredients of certain "cides" which are released in with future waterings).

 

[FeltchWyzard]

photos of root aphids as nymph and adult crawler

photos of root aphids as nymph and adult crawler

I just got some clones that have root aphids, they are red-assed. I think they are peach, potato, or rice root aphids, but I'm not sure. I found them by using the potato method(1/4" slices of potato nestled onto the roots). I took pictures of two stages for your viewing pleasure.

I already know how to take care of them and luckily they haven't developed wings yet. I just find a lack of good photos online and figure i could contribute to this wonderful forum.

These are at 500x. The smaller one was a little bigger than a spider mite and sand colored. The bigger one was about the size of a poppyseed & very dark but to the naked eye you could tell it's butt was red. Notice the cornicles.

Thanks guys! Back to obscurity for the time being, working hard.

 

[MIhomegrown]

I purchased a product by Nectar for the Gods awhile ago called The Kracken. It's a liquid crab and shrimp meal fertilizer. It's rich in calcium, magnesium and most importantly chitin. I started using it to increase my chances at adding a little more frost to my buds. Anyways after two applications to the root zone I haven't seen any root aphids or flyers. Fg's are almost disappearing as well. These little buggers haven't effected my plants too much but I am curious to what may have been if they were completely gone. Well I figured I would share to hopefully give someone another safe option to battle these bastards.

 

[Luthais]

hello all,
I have some bugs and was looking for some help identifying the creatures. I've never posted in a forum like this before, but I am not getting far digging through the information I have came across. Here are pics. Thanks in advance.

 

[F. Dupp]

Luthais, you have fungus gnats.

 

[Luthais]

Thank you very much for the reply Never been so happy to have gnats.

 

[localyocal]

That response is so priceless I live in the NW and ants (we either call them sugar ants or the tiny little black fuckers you cant get rid I don't know if this is any issue elsewhere.) out here that want to invade ur home usually noticeable starting at ur kitchen sink because most of us don't walk over a colony of ants coming through the crack in our sidewalks and put any thought into it. Dang though once they are inside they are in. My point is that these same type of ant will find aphids like they find water in ur sink or any soda can you forgot to rinse out. When I finally found out about these root aphids, likely the same way as everyone else, I was so frustrated spending so much time trying to diagnose what I assumed was a feeding issue. Those little bastards were down there the whoole time. It took me two cycles of throwing crops out before I even knew about these things. Thank the lord that was long ago before this thread was even posted.