VERMONSTAH
Active member
Ok thanks!
Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???
- Thread starter spleebale
- Start date
StonerPoker
Member
I have gained control over root aphids organically.
After finishing a dissapointing flower cycle, with very few tricomes I cloned my veging plants.
Step 1: Get a good amount of pure neem oil, the best offer i found was on amazon $40 for 2 litres. Also potassium soap to bind the neem to the water. I use 2ml neem/litre water for folliar, and 4ml neem/litre water for soil drench. I soil drenched the veging plants 3 times before cloning. I also dust everything with Diatomaceous Earth after spraying, and before cloning.
Step 2: With the new clones in soil I will soil drench every 2nd watering with the neem. I find it best to drench when the lights come on, then you can feed/water the same day just before lights off. I ph- the neem/potass soap mix to ph6.5 for the drench as the potass soap raises ph a lot. Step 2 means the plant always have food accessable and can be left to completely dry before the next feeding.
Step 3: During flower I will keep spraying with neem upto 2 weeks before the end of flower, avoiding buds. Also I will keep doing the soil drench before every second watering when the lights turn on until 2 weeks before the end, always feeding later the same day before lights off.
This has completely controlled the root aphids for me. No more flyers at all, and the soil dwellers controlled. The quality of bud has gone back to exelent.
After finishing a dissapointing flower cycle, with very few tricomes I cloned my veging plants.
Step 1: Get a good amount of pure neem oil, the best offer i found was on amazon $40 for 2 litres. Also potassium soap to bind the neem to the water. I use 2ml neem/litre water for folliar, and 4ml neem/litre water for soil drench. I soil drenched the veging plants 3 times before cloning. I also dust everything with Diatomaceous Earth after spraying, and before cloning.
Step 2: With the new clones in soil I will soil drench every 2nd watering with the neem. I find it best to drench when the lights come on, then you can feed/water the same day just before lights off. I ph- the neem/potass soap mix to ph6.5 for the drench as the potass soap raises ph a lot. Step 2 means the plant always have food accessable and can be left to completely dry before the next feeding.
Step 3: During flower I will keep spraying with neem upto 2 weeks before the end of flower, avoiding buds. Also I will keep doing the soil drench before every second watering when the lights turn on until 2 weeks before the end, always feeding later the same day before lights off.
This has completely controlled the root aphids for me. No more flyers at all, and the soil dwellers controlled. The quality of bud has gone back to exelent.
BubbaBear
Active member
I finally found some of these bulb assed tail piped mother fuckers in my garden. Ive yet to even see any on my roots but there definitely root aphids. They have yet to do any damage but I sure have managed to kill off a lot of plants trying to treat them. First I went with the Conserve SC at 3ml per gallon and it killed everything under a foot tall. Then I did a EZ Wet SC soaking at 20-30ml per gallon and much of the same except now l killed a couple large plants as well as most plants under a foot.
So I guess we should be using a lower dosage on smaller plants, guess I should of known that.
Im not seeing any RA now at least but its safe to assume they will come back. Theres plently of good methods for treating them in here and it seems like loosing a few plants while doing so is pretty common but what are methods are the easiest on your plants? Kontos? I dont really want to spent the money on that but it seems like its the ticket for all there terrible newer plagues like russet mites and RA. I have some acephate but im scared to kill more plants with it. Whats the lowest rate you guys have used it at and had success eradicating RA? Also whats the best thing to feed your plants the days after application to prevent plant loss? Ive been doing half strength nutrients with some, floralicious plus and Grow mores jumpstart and roots excel but l still got some limp ass bitches. Any other suggestions? I know low light helps a bit as well as not keeping them to wet, l guess l should be treating my plants like they have root rot now? I havent had that shit in almost a decade.
So I guess we should be using a lower dosage on smaller plants, guess I should of known that.
Im not seeing any RA now at least but its safe to assume they will come back. Theres plently of good methods for treating them in here and it seems like loosing a few plants while doing so is pretty common but what are methods are the easiest on your plants? Kontos? I dont really want to spent the money on that but it seems like its the ticket for all there terrible newer plagues like russet mites and RA. I have some acephate but im scared to kill more plants with it. Whats the lowest rate you guys have used it at and had success eradicating RA? Also whats the best thing to feed your plants the days after application to prevent plant loss? Ive been doing half strength nutrients with some, floralicious plus and Grow mores jumpstart and roots excel but l still got some limp ass bitches. Any other suggestions? I know low light helps a bit as well as not keeping them to wet, l guess l should be treating my plants like they have root rot now? I havent had that shit in almost a decade.
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junior_grower
Active member
well they have come and gone lots over time. Biologicals work but are costly like 2-300 per use to cycle them and be pest free.
This round Im going to try sm-90 as i finish this cycle re stat the next flower cycle.
This round Im going to try sm-90 as i finish this cycle re stat the next flower cycle.
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
Well shit....
The description of OP certainly fits my conditions.
I thought they are fungus gnats that were introduced by generic garden soil from the hardware store.
I removed that soil from my garden (it was used to grow veggies) and did a top to bottom cleanout of my vegging area.
Hung up yellow tape and they all disappeared.
In flower it seemed like the plants were healthy enough to deal with them and until last week (~42 days flower) I had not seen any flyers anymore. Yellow tape also hung in the corner.
Since last week I notice something like 2-5 flyers at a time... Almost at the finish line and now this.
I posted pictures of the plants in this thread:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=7702819#post7702819
I was thinking the soil has some deficiencies and I need to change the recipe or be more careful with the Bio Boost or something.
But the description of OP fits, it starts slowly at older growth and doesn't look too bad and overall the plants truck along fine but there just seems a variety of deficiencies that I can't quite explain and also considering that throughout veg they looked extremely healthy (until I didn't water them enough on a few occasion and almost let them dry out).
But ever sine flower, all these deficiencies start to show up.
Dots and stuff first a little, getting more etc. etc.
I also thought Magnesium or Manganese deficiency until I stumbled over this.
Pretty sure I have the aphids...
Was planning to put a layer of sand on top of my soil (before, I was trying to establish cover crops with mixed success, chamomille coming along but slowly). But I would rather have no gnats or aphids so I thought I go with sand cover next.
But if they are indeed aphids, I guess I have to chemically treat them...
So far none in veg though. At least no flyers.
Guess I will look at some roots with a microscope today...
Aw man, that would suck.
Would be a big hit to my wallet too... Throwing out the cheap gardening soil was one thing but if I have to can the soil of 7 5gallon pots. I invested a lot into that soil ...
The description of OP certainly fits my conditions.
I thought they are fungus gnats that were introduced by generic garden soil from the hardware store.
I removed that soil from my garden (it was used to grow veggies) and did a top to bottom cleanout of my vegging area.
Hung up yellow tape and they all disappeared.
In flower it seemed like the plants were healthy enough to deal with them and until last week (~42 days flower) I had not seen any flyers anymore. Yellow tape also hung in the corner.
Since last week I notice something like 2-5 flyers at a time... Almost at the finish line and now this.
I posted pictures of the plants in this thread:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=7702819#post7702819
I was thinking the soil has some deficiencies and I need to change the recipe or be more careful with the Bio Boost or something.
But the description of OP fits, it starts slowly at older growth and doesn't look too bad and overall the plants truck along fine but there just seems a variety of deficiencies that I can't quite explain and also considering that throughout veg they looked extremely healthy (until I didn't water them enough on a few occasion and almost let them dry out).
But ever sine flower, all these deficiencies start to show up.
Dots and stuff first a little, getting more etc. etc.
I also thought Magnesium or Manganese deficiency until I stumbled over this.
Pretty sure I have the aphids...
Was planning to put a layer of sand on top of my soil (before, I was trying to establish cover crops with mixed success, chamomille coming along but slowly). But I would rather have no gnats or aphids so I thought I go with sand cover next.
But if they are indeed aphids, I guess I have to chemically treat them...
So far none in veg though. At least no flyers.
Guess I will look at some roots with a microscope today...
Aw man, that would suck.
Would be a big hit to my wallet too... Throwing out the cheap gardening soil was one thing but if I have to can the soil of 7 5gallon pots. I invested a lot into that soil ...
Sand isnt going to help. Theyll just go up through the drainage holes in the pots. These things are incessant. I finally got rid of them by using 3 different systemics, Merit 75, Triazicide, and Kontos, through veg and the first week of flower, then hitting my plants with Riptide once a week all the way through flower, and also using Riptide soaks between transplants from the cloner to veg, and veg to flower. But I run a low pressure aero system which gave me a slight advantage over those in dirt, as I could soak the entire rootball without leaving an air bubble for them to retreat into.
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
From the pics I took of one of the flyers, it certainly looked more like fungus gnats than root aphid flyers.
They had a distinct "curvature" to their body that root aphids don't seem to have according to OP's pics.
If it is just a few leftover gnats, I might be able to get rid of them with sand as I am using smart pots and I assume the gnats won't get in through those and seem to prefer the top layer anyway.
I think I will know better when I put some soil under the microscope tonight.
They had a distinct "curvature" to their body that root aphids don't seem to have according to OP's pics.
If it is just a few leftover gnats, I might be able to get rid of them with sand as I am using smart pots and I assume the gnats won't get in through those and seem to prefer the top layer anyway.
I think I will know better when I put some soil under the microscope tonight.
You don't need to look with a microscope. Your soil sample will be pretty unlikely to contain an RA. Best to do the potato test. 1 in thick slices of raw potato laid on soil surface. Check daily for a week. If you have RA's they will go for the soil side of the slice.
RA flyers have a stubby abdomen with 2 tailpipes. FG flyers have a long pointed abdomen. Good luck. -granger
RA flyers have a stubby abdomen with 2 tailpipes. FG flyers have a long pointed abdomen. Good luck. -granger
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
Thanks Granger, you always seem to show up with good advice when I find myself in a bind..
I didn't have any potatoes handy, will get them today and do the potato test.
It was hard for me to identify them, some looked more like gnats, some more like winged RA...
But gnats shouldn't result in the look of Mag deficiency that I have, should they?
It just fits on so many levels, I am fairly certain it's RAs...
Will do the potato test and look what comes of it.
For now I have maybe a hand full of flyers in the flowering room, can usually only spot 2 or 3 but I feel like they are slowly multiplying.
Either way, I will harvest this round as some plants are only 2-3 days away from harvest, others maybe a week and the slowest 2 weeks at most. From what I could gather my end product should not be negatively affected outside of yield.
What I have in veg, I will either clone and start again or I will look into acquiring the Gamma-Cyhalothrin (GCH) to combat them in veg.
Once harvested, I suppose I will have to get rid of 35 gallons worth of super soil and then find a way to clean any potential eggs from the smart pots (easier with plastic if you ask me).
But a problem I have is that at least 2 of the currently flowering plants, I want to reveg... I have no clones of them and they look great (the clones died to the root aphids or fungus gnats 2 months ago).
But if I reveg them, the infestation will spread ... Fuck my life ...
What really gets me is that I let the already infested super soil dry out completely after culling the males, in a separate room as well.
But there are still the root balls from the males inside there.
I used that dried out supersoil with the rootballs inside to transplant my new seedlings into 1 gallon pots and that's when the gnats/aphid flyers started to show up again in veg as well.
So I suppose I will have to get rid of more like 50 gallons of super soil.........
God I'm so angry, why did I have to grow vegetables in cheap DIY store garden soil.... So angry ...
/Edit
I am on page 11 of this thread, slowly working through it.
So if anyone feels like giving me an assist or shortcut (like Granger did --> potato test), feel free to do so, would be much appreciated!
/Edit2
Looked into available stuff right quick and the only thing I can get today is a Bayer product with 4,59 g/l Pyrethrine - 825,3 g/l canola oil.
I only found one or two products with Imid and GHC and both require a license. Might be able to get them from abroad though...
Most Imid products seem to be sold for animals here in order to rid them of fleas. Not sure if that could be used for my purpose as well...
I didn't have any potatoes handy, will get them today and do the potato test.
It was hard for me to identify them, some looked more like gnats, some more like winged RA...
But gnats shouldn't result in the look of Mag deficiency that I have, should they?
It just fits on so many levels, I am fairly certain it's RAs...
Will do the potato test and look what comes of it.
For now I have maybe a hand full of flyers in the flowering room, can usually only spot 2 or 3 but I feel like they are slowly multiplying.
Either way, I will harvest this round as some plants are only 2-3 days away from harvest, others maybe a week and the slowest 2 weeks at most. From what I could gather my end product should not be negatively affected outside of yield.
What I have in veg, I will either clone and start again or I will look into acquiring the Gamma-Cyhalothrin (GCH) to combat them in veg.
Once harvested, I suppose I will have to get rid of 35 gallons worth of super soil and then find a way to clean any potential eggs from the smart pots (easier with plastic if you ask me).
But a problem I have is that at least 2 of the currently flowering plants, I want to reveg... I have no clones of them and they look great (the clones died to the root aphids or fungus gnats 2 months ago).
But if I reveg them, the infestation will spread ... Fuck my life ...
What really gets me is that I let the already infested super soil dry out completely after culling the males, in a separate room as well.
But there are still the root balls from the males inside there.
I used that dried out supersoil with the rootballs inside to transplant my new seedlings into 1 gallon pots and that's when the gnats/aphid flyers started to show up again in veg as well.
So I suppose I will have to get rid of more like 50 gallons of super soil.........
God I'm so angry, why did I have to grow vegetables in cheap DIY store garden soil.... So angry ...
/Edit
I am on page 11 of this thread, slowly working through it.
So if anyone feels like giving me an assist or shortcut (like Granger did --> potato test), feel free to do so, would be much appreciated!
/Edit2
Looked into available stuff right quick and the only thing I can get today is a Bayer product with 4,59 g/l Pyrethrine - 825,3 g/l canola oil.
I only found one or two products with Imid and GHC and both require a license. Might be able to get them from abroad though...
Most Imid products seem to be sold for animals here in order to rid them of fleas. Not sure if that could be used for my purpose as well...
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Big--
Treat your soil and let it sit for a month. Both Orthene (acephate) and Riptide (pyrethrine + pbo) are available at: www.domyownpestcontrol.com
But a pound of generic acephate is a bit cheaper on Amazon.
About 32 oz of this spray will treat 32 gallons of grow medium.
Gallon Rate:
1 gallon of water
7.5 ml Riptide
3.2 grams of Acephate
Using a 32 gallon trash can, spray the inside completely, add about 4 shovels of grow medium (3-4 inches deep), even/level the grow medium, spray generously, add another 3-4 inches of grow medium, even/level, spray....and so on.
If you drench you plants with the orthene/riptide combo--try limiting each plant to receive not more than 1 gram of acephate. In otherwords, if you use 64 oz of solution to treat 1 plant, then your gallon rate would be 2 grams acephate per gallon. 1 gallon per plant...1 gram acephate per gallon. 2 gallons per plant, 0.5 grams per gallon. But keep the Riptide at 5ml per gallon under all scenarios.
Bonus gift with treating your grow medium with acpehate...it also controls fungus gnats as well as root aphids.
Treat your soil and let it sit for a month. Both Orthene (acephate) and Riptide (pyrethrine + pbo) are available at: www.domyownpestcontrol.com
But a pound of generic acephate is a bit cheaper on Amazon.
About 32 oz of this spray will treat 32 gallons of grow medium.
Gallon Rate:
1 gallon of water
7.5 ml Riptide
3.2 grams of Acephate
Using a 32 gallon trash can, spray the inside completely, add about 4 shovels of grow medium (3-4 inches deep), even/level the grow medium, spray generously, add another 3-4 inches of grow medium, even/level, spray....and so on.
If you drench you plants with the orthene/riptide combo--try limiting each plant to receive not more than 1 gram of acephate. In otherwords, if you use 64 oz of solution to treat 1 plant, then your gallon rate would be 2 grams acephate per gallon. 1 gallon per plant...1 gram acephate per gallon. 2 gallons per plant, 0.5 grams per gallon. But keep the Riptide at 5ml per gallon under all scenarios.
Bonus gift with treating your grow medium with acpehate...it also controls fungus gnats as well as root aphids.
Biddy,
I recommend skipping the Imid and GHC, and follow DocTim's advice, or even better, drench with pyrethrin, then 3 days later drench with OGBioWar Root and Foliar @ 4 tsp/gal each. Then weekly, water to runoff with the OGBW. After a month water every other week till you feel comfy with having eradicated the little bastards. Good luck. -granger
I recommend skipping the Imid and GHC, and follow DocTim's advice, or even better, drench with pyrethrin, then 3 days later drench with OGBioWar Root and Foliar @ 4 tsp/gal each. Then weekly, water to runoff with the OGBW. After a month water every other week till you feel comfy with having eradicated the little bastards. Good luck. -granger
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
Thanks guys, if the potato test shows that it is indeed RAs, I will follow Doc's advice.
Let's wait for the potato test though, I am starting to come around thinking that it might just be leftover fungus gnats that came back and that the nute lockout is due to low night-time temps.
Let's wait for the potato test though, I am starting to come around thinking that it might just be leftover fungus gnats that came back and that the nute lockout is due to low night-time temps.
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
So it looks like I overreacted and it is "just" fungus gnats after all.
After flipping the potato cuts over I found a bunch of white larvae wiggling around but no tiny specs of movement i.e. root aphids.
The flyers I caught recently also look like fungus gnats and not winged RAs.
Guess I dodged a bullet there.
Currently applying more yellow strips to catch more flyers and covering the top layer in bird sand so they can't get in to lay larvae.
Hope I can get them under control this way.
Thanks for the tip on the potatoes!
Will leave them in the soil for a bit longer still and continue monitoring them but it looks like the problem was just the fungus gnats and sub 15 °C night time temps that caused the nute lockout.
Also might have to adjust my soil mix a little but for now I will battle with the fungus gnats and harvest my crop and see how the next round goes.
Thanks for the hep!
After flipping the potato cuts over I found a bunch of white larvae wiggling around but no tiny specs of movement i.e. root aphids.
The flyers I caught recently also look like fungus gnats and not winged RAs.
Guess I dodged a bullet there.
Currently applying more yellow strips to catch more flyers and covering the top layer in bird sand so they can't get in to lay larvae.
Hope I can get them under control this way.
Thanks for the tip on the potatoes!
Will leave them in the soil for a bit longer still and continue monitoring them but it looks like the problem was just the fungus gnats and sub 15 °C night time temps that caused the nute lockout.
Also might have to adjust my soil mix a little but for now I will battle with the fungus gnats and harvest my crop and see how the next round goes.
Thanks for the hep!
PoweredByLove
Most Loved
i think they call em aphids. relatively easy to kill. i used garlic and hot pepper soaked for a tea and mixed with soap and oil to coat the leaves. standard shit. i think the proper name for those particular ones are peach aphids i believe.
forgot to add. if you can get your hose nozzle on em and blast under all the leaves first it'll cut out a lot of your work. do it outside so they can't get back easy. as long as you don't see ants' (little c*nts) bringing them back to your plant your issues should be over in a week or two with periodic spraying. like every other day.
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
Hi Granger,
yep the larvae are white and the smaller ones only white while the bigger ones have that distinct black head.
I assumed the white larvae are early stage/young and the ones with a black head are the ones about to transform into flyers.
I can take a few pics of the flyers I caught, was just really busy this week. Maybe will snap a pic of the larvae as well.
I didn't look with a microscope on the potatoes but there was no movement in between the larvae and I should have been able to see specs of movement in between the larvae if it was root aphids, right?
Hey just wondering what did you use to get rid of the root aphids? And did your plant fully recover or was it too late?
scaryharry
Member
Are this what I hope its not???
Are this what I hope its not???
I have been driving myself insane trying to diagnose my issues. Burnt tips, distorted new growth, leaves that look like they've been eaten , necrotic spots , yellowing leaves that eventually die and low yields.
I have what looks like gnats and then these little fuckers flying around. I have inspected the root balls, the roots themselves, the ground , the soil, and just about everything else I can think of but have never seen a aphid but have these fliers. I just took cuts of everything I had and got rid of all my soil and plants. All my cuts rooted and I also started some seeds but noticed today one or two of these fliers today. Let me know what you guys think, much thanks!
Are this what I hope its not???
I have been driving myself insane trying to diagnose my issues. Burnt tips, distorted new growth, leaves that look like they've been eaten , necrotic spots , yellowing leaves that eventually die and low yields.
I have what looks like gnats and then these little fuckers flying around. I have inspected the root balls, the roots themselves, the ground , the soil, and just about everything else I can think of but have never seen a aphid but have these fliers. I just took cuts of everything I had and got rid of all my soil and plants. All my cuts rooted and I also started some seeds but noticed today one or two of these fliers today. Let me know what you guys think, much thanks!
spaceboy
Active member
Anyone know of a good treatment that wont stunt the plants? Im at end of week 4 and plants look very healthy but they are definitely infested. Crawlers and flyers. Not looking for a total kill because i plant to totally reboot once these are harvested, but would like to try and kill as many as possible without making things worse.
Also what are the best cleaners for around the room? Can i just bleach and peroxide or do i need to spray some kind of pesticide? Ive seen grangers post about the cedar oil, but i thought neem did a good job of killing flyers so I imagine it will kill any crawlers hiding out on my floor or wood framing around the room. Any other ideas? Was going to ozone their asses too!
Also what are the best cleaners for around the room? Can i just bleach and peroxide or do i need to spray some kind of pesticide? Ive seen grangers post about the cedar oil, but i thought neem did a good job of killing flyers so I imagine it will kill any crawlers hiding out on my floor or wood framing around the room. Any other ideas? Was going to ozone their asses too!
king oscar
Member
Even with the strong stuff these took forever to be rid of (fingers crossed)
Systemics are out at 4 weeks you could try a triazicide drench per label recommendation. Keep the medium soaked for an hour or so this had no effect on my plants. If you're in soil start in with the og biowar. I fogged with rosemary oil to get the flyers.
They don't seem to stick around the environment like some pests, if you can eradicate them you should be good with normal bleaching
Systemics are out at 4 weeks you could try a triazicide drench per label recommendation. Keep the medium soaked for an hour or so this had no effect on my plants. If you're in soil start in with the og biowar. I fogged with rosemary oil to get the flyers.
They don't seem to stick around the environment like some pests, if you can eradicate them you should be good with normal bleaching
