Friend Busted: Am I at risk?

[Julian]

Btw.....anything "conspiracy" related changes the overview completely.....(one only has to note many cases in which product itself was not seized, or minimal product seized with charges on much higher cumulative amounts......ie: It changes focus to proving the conspiracy exists/ed.......which is much easier, and, as above, no product/seizures required......)

Ie: 30lbs seized on arrest, but charges that individual or group moved 500 a month for 5 years (30,000lbs).......and so on....

 

[TreAndKat]

The situation remains the same. The lawyer I contacted said that warrants take some time to process so I won't know what's going on for at least a week, maybe even a few weeks. What's that mean? Par for the course; cops were lying and there was no warrant to arrest other kid. Does anyone know of a way of securely wiping my internet data off firefox on a mac without formatting? I'll keep you guys updated... shit blows

 

[filo6942]

Even if you format, they still can probably find the data. If you are really to that point you should get a new hard drive and loose yours.

 

[toastfighter2]

Since they were on his roof, in plain view, they wouldn't need a warrant. Once they had the plants, they have probable cause to search his house, and make the arrest. In order to search your house, they would need more proof than a couple pics, so they would have to gather evidence(ie follow you around and what not)

 

[Lord Doobie]

Yes, you can wipe your HD but it's a lot easier to take your comp over to a friends house for a while

scorpio and others are right...all your friend has to do is buckle under to scare tactics and you're dead meat

it's amazing how much "friends" sing to avoid even a few days of jailtime...they're so wimpy, the cops usually have to tell them to stop

 

[JJScorpio]

Here is the definition of Probable Cause:
Probable cause exists when "the facts and circumstances within the arresting officer's knowledge are sufficient to warrant a prudent person to believe that a suspect has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime." [COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]United [COLOR=blue! important]States[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] v. Hoyos, 892 F.2d 1387, 1392 (9th Cir. 1989), cert. denied, 489 U.S. 825 (1990) (citing United States v. Greene, 783 F.2d 1364, 1367 (9th Cir. 1986), cert. denied, 476 U.S. 1185 (1986)).


Here is the lesser definition of ' reasonable grounds' to believe:

Reasonable suspicion is a legal standard in United States law that a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity based on specific and articulable facts and inferences. It is the basis for an investigatory or Terry stop by the police and requires less evidence than probable cause, the legal requirement for arrests and warrants. ( from Wiki).

Lets see if I can get this through your head.

Person A and person B commit a crime. Person A sells some of the stolen property and gets caught. The cops take person A to the station and finally get him to sign a statement against person B and that person B has the rest of the property at his home. This statement covers when the crime was commited along whith how it was commited, and each persons part in the crime.

The cops take the statement and the application for the warrant to a Judge along with an Affadavit from the cop that this information is true to the best of their knowlege. Judge gladly signs warrant and cops serve warrant, find the rest of the property. Person A gets less time and testifies against person B, who gets raked through the coals.

And I hate to bust your bubble, but the DA can act on any sworn statement they choose to. They only need to lie and say the person appeared reliable in their information. How do you think most cases get solved? By actual polioce work? The bulk of cases are solved because someone runs their mouth to the wrong person.....

Another example would be one person punches another and breaks his nose, but no one else saw it. The injured party signs a statement to the assault and the other is arrested based on that statement. Do you get it now?

You need to stop posting advice for people as it's obvious you have no understanding of how the legal system works...... I might suggest a couple intermediate Criminal Justice classes if you want to be giving advice....

 

[randude101]

It's a rough game with Real Consequences. Ask anyone that has been seriously popped.

Once you have been popped, you are on a list of people to get fucked with for the rest of your life. Too late then to make an adjustment, your so-called civil rights are in a gray area. The whole legal world (including your attorney) think of you a different way. In that, they all bargain on what to do with you to minimize the cost to society, as dictated by them.

Best to be smart, don't take unreasonable chances for the thrill of it, or because you think it is funny, or manly. Best not to put pot plants on the roof, and if you know someone that does such things run away.

I don't keep dangerous people as friends.

 

[JJScorpio]

Moron, there's a difference between hearsay and eye witness testimony. Hearsay is being told about it, where as eye witness saw it. Do you get it now?

And you'd sound a little more knowlegable if you used the term "reasonable person standard".

And are you a cop or something trying to get me to disclose my education? I can tell you I have more than one year of college....

 

[SmokyMtnToker]

Also, you say the the DA just has to lie; nonsense! Now you are saying that the system must be broken to do what you first said was legal...make up your mind. The DA CANNOT simply take a statement and then charge someone with a felony, with NO other evidence.

you are trying to game the facts now to fit your allegation , and it is not a tactic that will work here. The FACTS are these: One persons word, with NO OTHER evidence, is not and never has been the basis for a felony charge. If it were, the cops would be doing nothing but being used as tools for revenge and harrassment. If one persons word can trigger a felony charge, with nothing else to substantiate it, then we have ZERO protections under the law, and that is NOT the case.

Show me ONE felony case where a warrant was found to be valid wherein the ONLY validation was the word of one person. You cannot. End of story.

 

[JJScorpio]

Do you know why people that grow don't show anyone? Because if that person went to the cops and signed a statement on what they found they would get busted.

And a DA could care less if a witness is reliable or not. They will say they all are...

If you're so sure what you're saying is true you should be showing your grow to everyone with nothing to worry about, lmao....

I got a better idea. How many people here have been arrested based on someone signing a statement against you..... I have....

 

[JJScorpio]

Holy shit. I don't have time for this nonsense. I also can't let you be telling people this and getting them arrested. Do you get that?

Maybe this will help you understand.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=90394

I am going to ask you one time to stop giving people bad advice. You can and will get arrested based on someone's statement if the DA chooses to do so......

 

[SmokyMtnToker]

Ok, OK...SURE, if some DA decided to ignore the law he CAN bring a case, which will be thrown out. What are the odds? How many DA's like standing in a court and having a defense attorney smile and get a charge thrown out because of obvious 4th Amendment issues? Not many. but of course there is always a bad DA out there...i am NOT telling people to be careless...of course. All I am saying is not to get too worried about UNSUBSTANTIATED accusations made by someone else; rarely could it lead to anything.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that DA's are awful, and can abuse the system, but charging someone and getting a conviction ate two totally different things.

Also, do you call the advice given by some above to be ' good ' advice? heaven help us all...


Sorry you don't have time for others opinions: Here is a case that shows I am right: http://itrl.idr.iowa.gov/mx/hmPrintSetup.asp?NodeName=1AD6s

Anticipatory warrants are NOT legal. Anticipating that one might find something is NOT probable cause. but hey, I am not a supermod that can eliminate others views when they run counter to mine...I thought Mods were supposed to be unbiased? All I said was that no warrant shall issue without probable cause, and that is right from the constitution.

 

[JJScorpio]

If a "credible witness" witnesses something and signs a statement then it is not anticipatory.... And having time is not the issue. I can't have you making people think they can show people grows or other things and not get arrested if the person signs a statement....

Lets start a post asking members if they have ever been arrested for a crime based on the statement of another person. Fair enough?

 

[Ajunta Pall]

SmokeyMtn you just don't know what you're talking about do ya? The facts presented in this thread are pretty clear this guy can get charged. Let's review shall we.

1) The plants were not in a house, they were cleverly hidden on a roof. Which means that they are outside as opposed to inside. Which means that they could've been seen by anyone. Thusly, when an officer is able to witness a crime in progress, no warrant is required to make an arrest.

2)The pigs can place him there. Through photos or their own testimony, because they are witnesses too by the way, the pigs know this guy was at a known grow house.

3)The alleged friend. Will he stay true to the word, or would he rat on this poor bastard? He might, and he will be deemed a credible witness because in the eyes of the court he would have intimate knowledge of his own criminal schemes.

SmokeyMtn claims his testimony would be unsubstantiated? How in light of the facts? Besides I'll bet the bar is set pretty low on how much you have to do to become an accomplice at any rate. A few photos (hell, if a pig testfies don't really need pictures) of dude carrying around plants. And his friend saying "Yeah he helped me" is all it would really take to get charges filed.

 

[Julian]

To change direction for a moment......

The situation remains the same. The lawyer I contacted said

That is the absolute best thing you (or anyone) can/could do....

Relating to the above, the scenarios, the statements, etc......

A third party can make statements......law enforcement may think they have the details.....In anything, anytime, anywhere......you never say a single word.....that is what your attorney is for...to defend.....

(I know.......it is hard to remain silent (as in completely...for extended periods...) Have told story before...once took the sledgehammer and phonebook for between 20-30 minutes....when having the strength and they stopped between hits only stating "I want to speak to my attorneys"....and it only got worse the more I said it.....(I remember throwing in something to the effect of " I am also now going to need medical attention, I believe you've given me serious injuries and should notify attorney and document"....)

They eventually wrapped it up after seeing the further they went, the more formal and controlled my replies were....(instead of becoming scared, hysterical, etc.....)

(To anyone unfamiliar....phonebooks a time honored law enforcement tradition....for me they used the variation of putting phonebook against body (chest, back, head) and then hitting that with sledgehammer used for door.....)

Par for the course; cops were lying and there was no warrant to arrest other kid.

Talk to him.....see if you can find out what's up.....(you judge yourself what your hearing)....you could be fine....you can also help (refer your attorney, give some support......strengthen friendship and understanding......)

You don't want to put yourself through worrying about something you might not have to. Find out.

(One of my guys got caught up in insignificant bust this week....concerned when I heard..(didn't know details...only heard he had a "problem"....saw him......he showed me all docs...we talked....worse case scenario he's looking at probation....100% guaranteed (first offense, smaller amount, guidelines call for conditional release/probation and dismissal upon completion.....) No concern, no stress, went over situation, all details.....

Try not to worry until you know you have a reason to, and, even then.....say nothing, let attorney handle it......that's their job.......

People don't realize....all their excuses....stories they come up with...you can do nothing beneficial by telling any story..(and anything you say might very well fuck up your legal's desired late approach)

Don't worry man.....be cool.....wait to see what happens.......and if something does....say nothing other than you would like to speak to your attorney.........(again, as above.....people don't realize the smallest thing can actually hurt them...)

And his friend saying "Yeah he helped me" is all it would really take to get charges filed.

Another example of the smallest thing having far reaching consequences.......

Let's take it elsewhere for a moment and think if happened to anyone here.....and implicating others and such.......

The one thing I have learned over the years: 80% of the people who flip....who implicate others, etc.....would have NOT done time in the first place....and, keeping in tone with that:

If one ever feels they think they have to?....You wait first to see where it's going with attorney before even considering it...

Covered before....many times...many places.........

An arrest....(especially drug related)......it is a carefully orchestrated psychological and emotional assault......they have endless training on psychology.....interrogation... questioning.....manipulation.....it is all a calculated process...

1. Know what they are doing...understand why.....

It all becomes much easier when one does understand...knows what they will do...knows what to expect.....etc...

Many have heard the "say nothing"........but few remember, understand the overview of why.......

You are not going to help yourself by saying anything...only hurt yourself...(and....as above...possibly hurt others when you were not looking at anything in the first place.........well, until one said something they shouldn't have.......)

I would say that is what one should think about: How would I feel if I hurt someone else for nothing.....and everything turned out okay....

Stay calm, stay cool, say nothing, always let counsel do their thing......(their story might.....just might be much better than your original one ...)

 

[FreedomFGHTR]

I hope you guys realize that some of the minor details you are arguing about depend upon particular Judges...

to the OP yeah anytime a bust happens and you are associated with the people you are at risk. Keep your mouth shut like others have suggested and get a lawyer.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

Also, you say the the DA just has to lie; nonsense! Now you are saying that the system must be broken to do what you first said was legal...make up your mind. The DA CANNOT simply take a statement and then charge someone with a felony, with NO other evidence.

I call BS. I was arrested and my case went almost 2 years based on one persons statement. I might have been able to beat it but I plead out with some other charges from other cases I couldnt beat.

 

[TreAndKat]

Its now been 5 anxious days since the police took the plants and I've heard nothing. Apparently, it's not like a murder where the police immediately make an arrest. I believe a warrant has not yet been issued for my friend's arrest either--police were just lying as usual. They must first present before a judge who determines if an arrest warrant is granted.

My question is, how long has this process taken for any of the unfortunate folks who've gone through this? When can I expect to hear something?



And thank you ajunta, jj, julian, and all others (right or wrong)

 

[SmokyMtnToker]

Why did you cop out?

Why did you cop out?

I call BS. I was arrested and my case went almost 2 years based on one persons statement. I might have been able to beat it but I plead out with some other charges from other cases I couldnt beat.

If you ' might have been able to beat it' then WHY didn't you? Unreal. How can you call BS on something that you ADMIT you caved on? If you plead a case instead of fighting it, then shame on you! Had you fought it, you probably would have prevailed. The fact that you had other charges and plead out to them does NOT mean that you did the smart thing.

I would NEVER plead guilty to anything...especially a charge that will get tossed in court or on appeal. The word of one person, with NO OTHER evidence, is INSUFFICIENT to establish KNOWLEDGE of a crime and who did it.

Once again, someone PLEASE show us ONE CASE wherein a warrant or charge was upheld at trial, and based SOLELY on the accusation of another with NO corroborating evidence. You cannot. That means I am correct.

 

[Ajunta Pall]

Hey Kat, I know you're in a bad way, but you need to cool out like Julian said. Charges may take a while to be filed, and there's no reason to stress yourself out waiting for the hammer to drop. If you are charged then there is plenty of time for worry.

Your case could be under review by your local prosecutor's office, and they will decide whether or not to seek charges. Depending on what evidence they have, and what your state's laws are there might not be enough evidence to charge you with anything. Just being at a house under investigation isn't a crime.

I known people through the years who had the misfortune at being at a house when it was raided. They weren't on the cops' hit list, so they were searched and fucked with before being set free.

Don't know what else to say, except try not to dwell on it too much. You're in the justice system now, and let me tell ya, it crawls at its own pace. They'll come and get you when they want you.

I wish you all the best, dude. Don't let 'em grind ya down.