Frequent flushing of coco???

[Loc Dog]

When I reluctantly started using coco, coming from hydro, the people that talked me into it said never to flush or give lite feedings due to cation exchange. I did not listen and some of my best grows were micro managed, watching what went in, and what came out for PPM and PH. I got lazy and stopped doing that when I started growing again after a few years off. I am at week 6 of flower and runoff was 2 - 3 times higher PPM and full point or more lower PH (some around 4.5).

Now GH feedcharts suggest flushing after 3 or 4 regular feeds with straight water. I have been giving low feeds with high PH to try and get root zone back in proper range.

What do you do? Do you give straight water once a week or so? Do you throw a weak feed based on runoff once a week or so?

No one ever mentions cation exchange anymore, which I thought was BS to begin with.

Just wondering what others are doing regarding nutrient buildup and root zone being out of PH range.

 

[Tangwena]

I use coco and have done for 8 years using both CMH and now LED
I also feed using a res and blumat drippers. I try and keep total EC to the 1.4 to 1.6 range but still flush once a month until I get run off of about 20% of what I water in.
I use a flush of the same nutes but at 1.2 EC and apart from a little tip burn in full flower have had no problems if that helps.
If I see signs of burning ect I just flush and it resolves itself no problems.
If in doubt flush is a good practice and fixes most issues.

 

[Loc Dog]

I use coco and have done for 8 years using both CMH and now LED
I also feed using a res and blumat drippers. I try and keep total EC to the 1.4 to 1.6 range but still flush once a month until I get run off of about 20% of what I water in.
I use a flush of the same nutes but at 1.2 EC and apart from a little tip burn in full flower have had no problems if that helps.
If I see signs of burning ect I just flush and it resolves itself no problems.
If in doubt flush is a good practice and fixes most issues.

I saw no burn. I thought my LED's were causing foxtailing, and spent money on a PAR meter only to find out it was not that. Highest PAR was around 750 and some areas were 500. It must have been GG4 not liking the high PPM (which it is known for). Needs 650 PPM max, and one was at 1900.

I hand water, and not all at once. Maybe I need to feed until heavy runoff. It is also funny that this run needs twice as much fluid as last run. Last run was foxtailed from too much light. Did not have meter then, but had about a foot above canopy (vero 29 gen 7's running at 100 watts a piece).

Next run I will keep on top of runoff, so it does not get so far from proper feed. Has taken over a week, and still not getting runoff numbers I should have.

 

[Bush Dr]

Cation exchange is real

Personally I never flush at any point in the grow, there’s no reason to feed after day 40 after which they get booster and ph @6.2 until the end when they get 2 days of plain water …. I do give them a dose of Cannazym @50 days to ensure there’s no root rot

What were your results like?

 

[tobedetermined]

I seldom flush during a grow - unless I mess up. I religiously set pH on feed & I hand water once daily - ignoring the output. I only flush at the end.

 

[f-e]

I wouldn't pay GH any attention. Everything I have read from them falls apart spectacularly. Canna bought us coco, and have a site packed with good advice.

 

[f-e]

On the topic of flushing coco, I have noticed an oddity I have not seen with other mediums. Lets say you were feeding at cf10 and getting runoff of 12, every day. Then one day, you feed cf8, you might expect to see 10 run out. However.. 14
I have done this many times now. Less in=more out. Eventually the runoff will drop, then the next feeds the magnesium gets robbed from your feeds. Probably more, but it's mg that shows, though the missing salts are in greater number.

 

[Tangwena]

You can see most everyone does it differently and gets good results and thats all that counts in the end.
I only measure what goes in I have never measured run off if the plants look healthy then you are going great Coco is easy and very forgiving.

 

[Loc Dog]

Cation exchange is real

Personally I never flush at any point in the grow, there’s no reason to feed after day 40 after which they get booster and ph @6.2 until the end when they get 2 days of plain water …. I do give them a dose of Cannazym @50 days to ensure there’s no root rot

What were your results like?

Only reason I checked runoff was I could not find source of foxtailing. Assuned it was too much light from LED's but after spending a fortune on PAR meter, that was not the case. Assumed it had to be some other form of stress and looked at runoff, which was 3 times what I was feeding, and PH was 4.5 not 5.8 which I was feeding. Below 5.5 there is complete lockout from charts I have seen.

Have added an extra 2 weeks to grow, to hopefully salvage it. Some buds are recovering, but over have still heavily foxtailing.

I am wondering if the cheap ass coco could also be a problem. Maybe organic material or salts, although they have been watered for over 70 or 80 days.

 

[BobChronic6505]

I don't think your medium or flushing has anything to do with foxtailing. *I think* It happens to me when there is a lot of heat radiating down on the tops from the light. Also when there is alot of heat in the tent in the room. You havent told us about your temps, so that could be something to consider.

It could be genetic. Some plants do it some dont. It seems like a lot of sativa leaning varieties do that the most. It's very possible nothing is wrong with your grow and its just genetics.

Can you tell me about the par meter you got??? I'm interested in one but they r expensive from what I've seen?

 

[Loc Dog]

I don't think your medium or flushing has anything to do with foxtailing. *I think* It happens to me when there is a lot of heat radiating down on the tops from the light. Also when there is alot of heat in the tent in the room. You havent told us about your temps, so that could be something to consider.

It could be genetic. Some plants do it some dont. It seems like a lot of sativa leaning varieties do that the most. It's very possible nothing is wrong with your grow and its just genetics.

Can you tell me about the par meter you got??? I'm interested in one but they r expensive from what I've seen?

It is 80 to 84 degrees with strong fan running 24/7 and exhaust fan. It is a clone strain known for hating feed over 650 and runoff was almost 2000, with PH at 4.5. Below 5.5 causes lockout. Some have suggested using lumen meter and using a conversion, which is much cheaper. I ruined 2 runs, so bought it to be safe, and was not the issue.

PAR was Photo Bio by Phantom.

 

[BobChronic6505]

GL man

 

[.............]

Yo loc ill just copy paste this from instead of writing it again.

What I've done:
feed to runoff, 20% runoff, managed salt build up etc.
Flushed down to <400ppm and plain water water until fade.
flushed plain water with and without pH correction.
Flushed and re-buffered used coco.

What I do now:
Never check runoff.
Never feed till runoff (500ml hand fed multi feed
Never flush, just plain pHd water until fade achieved.
Sift and reuse coco, no rinsing or rebuffering.

1200ppm/2.4 EC from clone to flower.
This is 1000PAR co2 enriched LED growing and is different using HPS. For an example you need to flush earlier or more under HPS compared to LED. LED fades out much faster.

6-6.1 pH
Definitely feed lower under hps 800-1000ppm in flower, whatever the sweet spot for you is.

 

[Loc Dog]

Yo loc ill just copy paste this from instead of writing it again.

6-6.1 pH
Definitely feed lower under hps 800-1000ppm in flower, whatever the sweet spot for you is.

One thing I could never do, and may contribute to salt buildup, is that the roots are a solid mass. I use 5 gallon airpots which are really around 3 gallon, and when done it is solid. Shake it all you want and nothing comes off.

I wish I had documented everything when I had it perfected a number of years ago. I may be vegging too long. I learned from commercial growers, and think the just vegged for 3 weeks once roots were established from cloning.

I had mentioned previously that this run is drinking twice as much. Not sure if the nutrient lockout is making them drink more in an effort to feed.

 

[B.T. Herb]

hi Loc D. , i personally love those strains that reveal a prominent foxtailing growing pattern. nevertheless i can understand your worries about a 4.5 ph run off and i was wondering how you got to this point. since i treat coco i'v never ever found a brick that was lower than 6,.. so it really sounds strange to me. Coming from hydro as you did i bet that any discussion about the importance of setting ph every time you feed them should sounds pleonastic and i won't you get bored. anyway, i can ensure you that a salt excess usually raise the ph value of your feeding once it drops from bottom. so we are still in the mood'bout that... 4.5 then, I qoute Tangwega when he/she says that every pot has his/her grower and responds to him/her alone. i do have my method too but the basics are still the same. the goal, personally talking, is to reach/find the right balance between feedings and needs at any floweing phase for every different strain. that could avoid any flushing till last week

I wish I had documented everything when I had it perfected a number of years ago. I may be vegging too long. I learned from commercial growers, and think the just vegged for 3 weeks once roots were established from cloning. .

i bet you got used on feed them hard in order to reach blooming but i can't read any info ' bout your feeding solution...

 

[B.T. Herb]

yo Loc D., brain teaser fascinating me and...
peraphs i was wondering if you got clay pebbles instead of pearlite inside your medium

the untaken Pk, like phosphates usually do, shall even hypotetically been flushed away contributing to increase your ph runoff.

 

[Loc Dog]

hi Loc D. , i personally love those strains that reveal a prominent foxtailing growing pattern. nevertheless i can understand your worries about a 4.5 ph run off and i was wondering how you got to this point. since i treat coco i'v never ever found a brick that was lower than 6,.. so it really sounds strange to me. Coming from hydro as you did i bet that any discussion about the importance of setting ph every time you feed them should sounds pleonastic and i won't you get bored. anyway, i can ensure you that a salt excess usually raise the ph value of your feeding once it drops from bottom. so we are still in the mood'bout that... 4.5 then, I qoute Tangwega when he/she says that every pot has his/her grower and responds to him/her alone. i do have my method too but the basics are still the same. the goal, personally talking, is to reach/find the right balance between feedings and needs at any floweing phase for every different strain. that could avoid any flushing till last week i bet you got used on feed them hard in order to reach blooming but i can't read any info ' bout your feeding solution...

Problem is GG4 only shows foxtailing when you totally f-up. Also known to be very lite feeder, 600 - 650 PPM max ever. My runoff was almost 2000 on some, and minimum of 1200. Temps might have been slightly high, but running lights at night, and fans running hard 24/7.

This grow is completely ruined. Probably half the weight I am used to, and a lot of shit bud shaded by excessive leaf.

This is feedchart except I never feed over 650PPM - https://gh.growgh.com/docs/Feedcharts/GH_FloraSeries-DTW_03216am.pdf

 

[f-e]

As a blanket statement, feed is acidic. If your runoff goes off the chart, the pH will fall off the bottom.
3x more is very high. With coco you don't use more than two thirds of the available moisture. At that extreme, a runoff 3x higher means all the feed is still in the 33% of the water that's left. The plants are not eating at all. Which would mean them not really drinking either, so everything has slowed right down. These may not be the rules you stick to, but it's hard to get far from these facts.

Half strength feed, and lots of it, to get the excess washed out. It might need running at half for a few days, with some tap to get the pH coming back up. Then they will start eating again.

That's exactly what you say you are doing in the first post. I reckon you will get on top of it.

 

[Loc Dog]

As a blanket statement, feed is acidic. If your runoff goes off the chart, the pH will fall off the bottom.
3x more is very high. With coco you don't use more than two thirds of the available moisture. At that extreme, a runoff 3x higher means all the feed is still in the 33% of the water that's left. The plants are not eating at all. Which would mean them not really drinking either, so everything has slowed right down. These may not be the rules you stick to, but it's hard to get far from these facts.

Half strength feed, and lots of it, to get the excess washed out. It might need running at half for a few days, with some tap to get the pH coming back up. Then they will start eating again.

That's exactly what you say you are doing in the first post. I reckon you will get on top of it.

I gave low feeds and watched runoff everyday for over a week. They are f-ed. Was going to run an extra week, but have seen no recovery, so flushing soon. This is beginning of 8th week. Will watch runoff the entire time next run, and not veg nearly as long. I think people did not veg GG4 for more than 3 or 4 weeks, and is known as big stretcher when flipped to flower.

 

[Loc Dog]

yo Loc D., brain teaser fascinating me and...
peraphs i was wondering if you got clay pebbles instead of pearlite inside your medium

the untaken Pk, like phosphates usually do, shall even hypotetically been flushed away contributing to increase your ph runoff.

No, I use perlite. Threw away all hydroton a few years ago.