Fourth Grow - Same Problems

[Relaxed]

This grow is Blueberry from clones in a 3-1 Promix/perlite blend plus about 2 tbsp dolomite lime per gallon. Using Holland Secret chemical nutes at full strength at every watering. PH adjusted to around 6.0. Flush before flower and again at the end. Using a 250 watt HPS.

Note that there was a small problem on this grow with spider mites but is has cleared up using soap.

The problems start with the lower leaves. Yellowing diagonally down the leaf then brown edges and finally a full yellow leaf then brown/dead. Some leaves, but not al lall, exhibit brown spots. I've removed some lower leaves from the pictured plant. Throughout the grow the yellowing creeps up the plant and I am constantly removing dead leaves. New growth comes out nice but soon fades to a slightly lighter (lime) green. I've finished all the grows with decent results but I know I can do better.

My previous grows used GH nutes at full streength and various soil and soiless mixes with the exact same problem. Since the problem never differs I'm hoping someone could point out my problem.

I've tried flushing, adjusting the PH a bit (bringing it down from my 6.7 tap water), reducing the nutes all to no avail. I tested the PH of the soil and if I remember correctly it was in the low 6s or high 5s.

All comments are appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Haps]

Add 5-10% cheap potting soil to your mix going forward, don't know why, but it helps with this def.
H

 

[Relaxed]

Thanks for the info. Two of my four grows were a straight potting soil or potting soil/perlite mix and the plants exhibited exactly the same problems.

 

[MynameStitch]

you got magniseum and ntirogen problems

are you testing the run off after watering or are you testing the water ph before you water?

what nutrients are you using and how much how often>?

what size pot is the plant in and what size is the plant?

 

[Relaxed]

I always test the watering soltion and sometimes test the runoff (using clear water). I'm using Holland Secret chem ferts full strength and PH adjusted to low 6s every watering which occuers when the pots get light. Watering with about 1/3 the pot volume of nutrient solution.

I should note that in the past I've added epsom salts to the water with no effect. Two times I've just used dolomite lime in the soil with the same results.

The pots are quite small and the 1 foot tall plants will be transplanted shortly. However, I've used up to 3 gallon pots with the exact same results. These plants will finish between 2-3 feet tall.

 

[MynameStitch]

bout 1/3 the pot volume of nutrient solution.''

tht doesnt help... how much in a gallon of water?

you could be using to much you could be using not enough

how much lime did you use
it sounds like you are not using the nutreints nor the lime the proper way

depending on how much soil is how muich lime you are supossed to use

what nutrient are you using to feed your plant

this is a 100% case of magniseum and nitrogen deficiency

your ph is to low you need to raise it and the only way you are going to do it right is by using enough lime

it takes a bit of time it doesnt work overnight

 

[Relaxed]

Curently I am using 6ml micro, 6 ml grow and 10 ml bloom (holland Secret) per gallon of water. There is about 2 Tbsp lime per gallon of soil mix. The plants are in the first week of flower.

For the nutes I am following the mixing schedule exactly and giving full strength nutes at every watering. The same was true when I was using GH nutes on previous grows.

My understanding is that a PH of 5.8 to 6.3 is desireable for soilless mixes. In any case, my first grows had a PH of about 6.7 - 7 with the same results.

I figured the plants were N deficient but I don't know why. (Lockout? underfert? deficient?) I've tried adding Mg with epsom salts in the nute mixture in the past but only added it for one week.

 

[Guest]

Your plants look similar to mine on my first grow. This is what has helped me. I cant say for sure that a lockout/salt buildup is your problem, but I also was fertilizing with every watering and the same sort of thing happened to my plants. either way, I hope this helps.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=13689

best of luck
guerilla

p.s.
In the article they reccomend that you get an EC meter. It may be beneficial, but all I did was cut way down on the ferts and my plants have never looked better. good luck

 

[cadillachydro]

Ive never grown in anything but coco and hydroton. But, my hydro guy tells me plants have a hard time absorbing nitrogen around or above a ph of 7. I would should for 5.6, as the ph naturaly rises with time. Also as the ph rises in your medium, the plant is able to absorb a wider spectrum of the nutirents available in the food. I was experiencing the same problems you have with my present grow. My problems and leaves were close to identical. I picked up some Magi-Cal... a nute solution high in magnesium and calcium. I also foliar fed w/ magic green from house&garden. My ladies are 4th wk flower and have never looked better. As i am only into my second grow i am far from experienced, just thought id share whats worked for me. Good luck.

 

[Relaxed]

Thanks for the replies.

It's been recommended to me to run the ferts at full strength in my soilless mix. Last time I tried flushing regularly and had no better results.

When I used a plain soil/perlite mix I was using 1/4 strength GH nutes every other watering and had the exact same problem.

It seems that no matter what I've done this problem recurs exactly. This leads me to believe that my PH should be fine as it's been adjusted on different grows, I don't think it is locking up as even when feeding pure water the plants never spring back. But I am no expert and really couldn't tell the difference between deficiencies due to under or overfeeding.

The only time I ever had a plant kinda come back was when I upped the nute strength. This only happened once and didn't last.

I'm thinking that using hydroponic nutes in a soilless mix is leaving me with a deficiency. So let me ask this? What is the best way to introduce extra nitrogen and/or magnesium to the plant? I'm thing of starting by mixing epsom salts and water and foliar feeding to see if I get results. Again, this is just going by the seat of my pants without much real knowlege of waht is truly happening.

I'm just at a loss as to how this keeps happening no matter what changes I've made (Soil type, PH, nute strength, nute brand, flushing, etc.)

This is driving me crazy!

 

[lemonade]

Perhaps it's your water source? Dissolved mineral salts or something..I don't know. Perhaps you could test the EC of the water before nutes are added. You obviously know what you're doing though. Wish I could be of better help.

 

[mace_ecam]

whats the temps? (day and night)

 

[Relaxed]

Day temps are about 77-80 and about 69 at night. It is a bit dry as well. Theres excellent ventialtion and a small fan to move the air about.

 

[OGDread]

Perhaps it's your water source? Dissolved mineral salts or something..I don't know. Perhaps you could test the EC of the water before nutes are added. You obviously know what you're doing though. Wish I could be of better help.

I second this. Hard water, nute lockout. WOuld explain why it keeps on happening.
EC meter?

 

[mace_ecam]

Day temps are about 77-80 and about 69 at night. It is a bit dry as well. Theres excellent ventialtion and a small fan to move the air about.

your temps sounds good, sometimes (esp. in warm conditions) low RH can cause problems, but i don't think its due to that.
Maybe overwatering.
How light are the pots before you water? Since there is so much perlite in them, they should be really light before you water them.

 

[MTF-Sandman]

I'm kinda leaning towards your tap water being a possible culprit as well...what's the PPM/EC of it and is it from a well or public water supply?

 

[Relaxed]

I've never had the water tested but it is water from a natural lake that is sometimes treated with chlorine. I usually let the water breath for a few days before using it. The water is definately not hard and is about the cleanest public water I've found.

On my first grow that exhibited these problems I used nothing but RO water purchased from the grocery store.

I usually let the pots get real light before watering. ie I water just before (but sometimes after) the plants start to wilt. I add about 1/3 to 1/2 the volume of the pot using full strength nutes every time.

 

[mace_ecam]

funny thing about the pics is that they show a lots of defs, but at the same time you got one or two claws...

i think its nute lock out, can be caused by wrong pH, too strong nutes (high EC in the soil) or bad water.

Any flying insects in your room? Gnats will cause a sick looking plant like that.

a good nute recipe for GH Flora is to use 8ml Micro and 16 ml bloom per US gallon water (no grow!), nothing needs to be added, there is even enough Mg in that mix.

 

[Rosy Cheeks]

you got magniseum and ntirogen problems

what nutrients are you using and how much how often>?

Stitch, it is better to be careful when diagnosing a problem. It is in no way evident that this is a magnesium/nitrogen problem (not excluding it could be). And he just told you what nutrients he use, and how much.
The way I see it, a reocurring problem (with different nutes and different ph) could be a tapwater problem, possibly polluted, as suggested by lemonade and Sandman. You lower the ph in hydroponic growing in order to avoid phytium (root rot) Relax. This is preferable in systems such as DWC, where the roots are constantly immersed in water, but not necessarily so in a soilless medium.

 

[MynameStitch]

it is a nitrogen and magniseum problem, now we need to find out why, its evident it is just take a look at what a nitrogen and magniseum deficiency look like

just because i say what it doesnt mean i know exactly what is casuing it. which is why i am asking for more details

it could be caused by a number of issues

i have seen plenty of plants like this, ive seen plenty


I add about 1/3 to 1/2 the volume of the pot using full strength nutes every time.

now see that doesnt explain how much nutes you are using, considering that statement you could be using to much and locking out or you could be using not enough

can you please explain that statement a bit better?


Using Holland Secret chemical nutes at full strength at every watering

how much is full strength? 1 tsp per gallon of water? 1 tablespoon?
how often are you watering?

Curently I am using 6ml micro, 6 ml grow and 10 ml bloom (holland Secret) per gallon of water. There is about 2 Tbsp lime per gallon of soil mix. The plants are in the first week of flower.

dude thats insane for these size of plants man! your burning the hell out of them you are locking out nutrients

how often are you giving these plants this much food??

also when you say you are adjusting the ph are you adjusting it by tap water or adjuting it by the reading of the run off water after you water your plants?


also are you using water that has sodium in it? like do you have a water softner?

and have you tested your waters ppm and or for hard water?

relaxed can you answer some of these questions please?

SOIL:
What STRAIN are you growing?
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
What is the age of your plants?
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
What substrate/medium are you using? (percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)
What Nutrient's are you using? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
What method of pH test was administered?
When was your last water?
When was your last feeding?
What size bulb are you using?
What is the distance to the canopy?
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
What is the canopy temperature?
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
Are plant's infected with pest's?


HYDROPONICS:

What STRAIN are you growing?
What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?)
What is the age of your plants?
What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
What Technique are you using?
What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.)
What is the Nutrient temperature?
What Nutrient's are you using?
What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using?
What is the pH of the "Tank"?
Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equiptment?
When was your last watering?
When was your last feeding change? (ie. grow-bloom-micro-additional)
What size bulb are you using?
What is the distance to the canopy?
What is your RH Factor?
What is the canopy temperature?
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range)
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When?
Are plant's infected with pest's