For those TRAITORS who think cannabis should be taxed

[PharmaCan]

You weren't around in the '70s when Carter gave the draft dodgers amnesty.

ROFL - I was one of them.

TC2010 passing would have generated the headline "CA legalizes pot!" and would start a nationwide dialogue.

But, at what cost. Sorry, but your contention that a bad law is good because it will start a national dialogue simply isn't reason enough to pass a bad law. Anyway, there already is a national dialogue vis-a-vis the mmj movement.

PC

 

[PharmaCan]

When re-legalized, cannabis will be taxed when it is sold. Any money that growers or sellers make will be taxed as income tax. We'll pay tax on the seeds or clones, tax on the supplies used to grow it and tax on the electricity used to grow it. We'll pay taxes on the property we use to grow it on and taxes to transport it.

This isn't an argument about IF mj should be taxed, it's an argument about how many taxes are too many. I'm sure the argument will continue, but will those in favor of more taxation please quit pretending like those opposed think marijuana won't be taxed at all. Some of the statements are getting just way out line pretending that those opposed to a special tax think that any commercial transaction should go completely untaxed when that is not what most people are saying - and what is certainly far from the reality of the matter.

PC

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

When re-legalized, cannabis will be taxed when it is sold. Any money that growers or sellers make will be taxed as income tax. We'll pay tax on the seeds or clones, tax on the supplies used to grow it and tax on the electricity used to grow it. We'll pay taxes on the property we use to grow it on and taxes to transport it.

This isn't an argument about IF mj should be taxed, it's an argument about how many taxes are too many. I'm sure the argument will continue, but will those in favor of more taxation please quit pretending like those opposed think marijuana won't be taxed at all. Some of the statements are getting just way out line pretending that those opposed to a special tax think that any commercial transaction should go completely untaxed when that is not what most people are saying - and what is certainly far from the reality of the matter.

PC

THIS ARGUMENT SHOULDNT BE ABOUT TAXES AT ALL. TAXES SHOULD BE SUCH A MINUIT TINY MINSCULE OF A MATTER WE SHOULDNT EVEN BE RECOGNIZING IT. WHAT WE SHOULD DO IS RALLY TOGETHER AS A GROUP OF CANNABIS INDIVIDUALS AND MAKE SURE THAT WE PASS A LAW THAT COULD POTENTIALY END THE HAZARDS OF THE WAR ON DRUGS FOR ALL CANNABIS USERS. THIS LAW THAT KEEPS CANNABIS ILLEGAL IS DESTROYING FAMILIES AND YOU ALL HAVE THE AUDACITY TO BLOCK A LAW THAT WOULD END ITS ILLEGALITY BECAUSE OF A FEW MEASLY FUCKING QUARTER AND NICKELS?? YOU GUYS MAKE ME WANT TO GO FUCKING VOMIT. IM INCREDIBLY DISSAPOINTED WITH MANY OF YOU. HOPEFULY IT WILL NOT TAKE A POLICE OFFICER BUSTING YOUR FRONT DOOR IN AND KICKING YOUR ASS AND TAKING YOU TO JAIL TO FINALLY REALIZE HOW FUCKING TERRIBLE OUR SYSTEM IS.....AND YOUR FUCKING COMPLAINING ABOUT TAXES. JESUS CHRIST. ITS NO WONDER HOW GWB GOT VOTED INTO OFFICE TWICE.

 

[PharmaCan]

THIS ARGUMENT SHOULDNT BE ABOUT TAXES AT ALL. TAXES SHOULD BE SUCH A MINUIT TINY MINSCULE OF A MATTER WE SHOULDNT EVEN BE RECOGNIZING IT. WHAT WE SHOULD DO IS RALLY TOGETHER AS A GROUP OF CANNABIS INDIVIDUALS AND MAKE SURE THAT WE PASS A LAW THAT COULD POTENTIALY END THE HAZARDS OF THE WAR ON DRUGS FOR ALL CANNABIS USERS. THIS LAW THAT KEEPS CANNABIS ILLEGAL IS DESTROYING FAMILIES AND YOU ALL HAVE THE AUDACITY TO BLOCK A LAW THAT WOULD END ITS ILLEGALITY BECAUSE OF A FEW MEASLY FUCKING QUARTER AND NICKELS?? YOU GUYS MAKE ME WANT TO GO FUCKING VOMIT. IM INCREDIBLY DISSAPOINTED WITH MANY OF YOU. HOPEFULY IT WILL NOT TAKE A POLICE OFFICER BUSTING YOUR FRONT DOOR IN AND KICKING YOUR ASS AND TAKING YOU TO JAIL TO FINALLY REALIZE HOW FUCKING TERRIBLE OUR SYSTEM IS.....AND YOUR FUCKING COMPLAINING ABOUT TAXES. JESUS CHRIST. ITS NO WONDER HOW GWB GOT VOTED INTO OFFICE TWICE.

If it shouldn't be argued about, then why are you screaming at the top of your lungs as a participant in the argument?

It's not a few quarters and nickles, it's billions of dollars. Perhaps if we had a few more people concerned about how our tax money is spent, instead of equating billions of dollars to nickles and quarters, people like Dubya wouldn't have a platform to stand on or a chance in hell to get elected. Your condescending attitude about how our money is collected and spent contributed a lot more to GWB getting elected than anything that's been said in this thread.

I think most people here are against the war on drugs; there's just a difference of opinion about how we should go about winning it.

PC

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

If it shouldn't be argued about, then why are you screaming at the top of your lungs as a participant in the argument?

It's not a few quarters and nickles, it's billions of dollars. Perhaps if we had a few more people concerned about how our tax money is spent, instead of equating billions of dollars to nickles and quarters, people like Dubya wouldn't have a platform to stand on or a chance in hell to get elected. Your condescending attitude about how our money is collected and spent contributed a lot more to GWB getting elected than anything that's been said in this thread.

I think most people here are against the war on drugs; there's just a difference of opinion about how we should go about winning it. The fact that you have an opinion that you believe in doesn't give you the moral high ground by any stretch of the imagination.

Take a chill pill, dude, and recognize that there are opinions other than yours ...and that yelling is the last resort of those who lack the facts or ability to persuade others through logic and reason.

PC

So what I am to understand is your so selfish that you wouldnt support a legalization effort because it isnt 'your way'? Fuck the people in prison right? Whats another two years for them to wait....?

Obviously your life isnt worth very much to you if your willing to risk your short time here on earth behind bars because you dont want to pay a few dollars of taxes on something you claim to be so passionate about.

Personally, I enjoy and value my life and I think there should be no reason why I should risk prosecution because of something as petty as pot, specialy if the only thing keeping one from another is something as ridiculous as taxes.

http://www.californiacannabisinitiative.org/
http://www.californiacannabisinitiative.org/
http://www.californiacannabisinitiative.org/
http://www.californiacannabisinitiative.org/
http://www.californiacannabisinitiative.org/
http://www.californiacannabisinitiative.org/
http://www.californiacannabisinitiative.org/

 

[PharmaCan]

So what I am to understand is your so selfish that you wouldnt support a legalization effort because it isnt 'your way'? Fuck the people in prison right? Whats another two years for them to wait....?

Obviously your life isnt worth very much to you if your willing to risk your short time here on earth behind bars because you dont want to pay a few dollars of taxes on something you claim to be so passionate about.

Personally, I enjoy and value my life and I think there should be no reason why I should risk prosecution because of something as petty as pot, specialy if the only thing keeping one from another is something as ridiculous as taxes.

Just for the record, I've spoken against TC2010 because it is bad law, not because of any tax ramifications, and I'd vote for CCI, even though it has taxes in it.

You should get your facts straight before you go jumping all over people who, for the most part, agree with you.

PC

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

ROFLMAO - Now you're not only participating in the argument, your holding both sides of it.

Please provide a quote for those words you are trying to cram into my mouth. When you can't, shove them up your ass!

Just for the record, I've spoken against TC2010 because it is bad law, not because of any tax ramifications, and I'd vote for CCI, even though it has taxes in it.

You should get your facts straight before you go jumping all over people who, for the most part, agree with you.

PC

This is my point. We will never legalize in california. PC agrees with my standpoint, yet is debating my argument??? WHAT THE FUCK?

If you are pro-CCI >> why are you rallying against taxes...?

 

[Marywanna]

The only way the Govt will legalize MJ is if they make some $$ on it. Thats all they care about,what is in it for them. How do I become a lobbiest for Medical MJ?

 

[PharmaCan]

This is my point. We will never legalize in california. PC agrees with my standpoint, yet is debating my argument??? WHAT THE FUCK?

If you are pro-CCI >> why are you rallying against taxes...?

I am speaking out, mildly, against taxes because that is my opinion and the purpose of this forum is for people to express their opinions. Any strong opinion I have expressed is against the oaksterdam initiative because it is bad law, not against the taxation issue.

I will continue to oppose the oaksterdam initiative and I will continue to disagree with anyone who says we should pass it just for the sake of getting something passed.

PC

 

[MickTheBrag]

its better if they just keep it class C and dont leagalize it.

i grow 5/6 plants at a time and i like too sell a half oz here and there.£20.00 a eighth. to help pay for the nutes, lights and other growroom stuff.
but if it was legal i would'nt be able too cause every body would have plenty of smoke.

get my drift man.

but having cannabis as a class B is well out of order

 

[mrwags]

The only way the Govt will legalize MJ is if they make some $$ on it. Thats all they care about,what is in it for them.

Finally, Common Sense of The American Way In Congress.


Mr.Wags

 

[ST8DunWSociety]

I'm sorry if this may be my first post but just realize that mmj is only a small problem of things to come with our government, The fact of the mater is we should also be more interested in making the them work for us, instead of them making laws and for us to give them a salary for making decisions that we may or may not have wanted. We are all to blame, unless everyone is willing to understand that we are no longer in control and we must go into battle once again with our government so a lot of changes can be made. We need a second American revolution and those of you who may put me down for this, would you rather have freedom or just be high to forget about all the problems around you. Any more the US citizen is just too dumb to be able to fully understand what exactly our government is up to and where they are taking us. We are heading towards a system where we the people is no more, and the select few really control everyone else

 

[Possum]

sad but true...the wording of legislation is so tedious...but posting the initiative and giving a bunch of stoners line item veto isn't going to work either.

voters are lazy...they want the cliff notes on legislation...they want people to distill the truth into some easy catch phrase that they will either support or not.

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this is what the people want. Freedom. Freedom to smoke dope if we want. Freedom to grow dope if we can. Freedom to buy dope if we cant.

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if growing were legal most people dont have it in them to grow their own.

but lots of the people who grow have an agenda that just doesn't jive with the average joe smoker who just want the freedom to get high.

the problem...Money...who gets what and when.

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i would hate to loose this battle over dis-organization.

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let's face it - for most of us it's not about MEDICAL CANNABIS (which rulz) it's about getting high. So lets ask for what we want, and concede the inevitable.

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let's make this simple.

dope being legal for adults to grow and smoke. licenses to sell/market. taxes on revenue made. with medical non-profit groups being exempt.

what about that isn't fair - to the whole damn world?

IF either one of these initiatives do not give the people the option to vote for this...then the people need a new one that gives us the above as an option.

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you know what's a F'N joke...complaining that 'big business' will take over...look around fool it's that way already. except 'big business' isn't ma and pa in america or bankers or politicians - it's gangsters from all over the world. and gangsters and cops are the only people who profit from cannabis being illegal.

so 'big business' will take over inevitably because most people are lazy and others capitalize on that. hence capitalism. this is neither the time nor the place to re-fight the damn revolutionary war. we are trying to get legal dope not overthrowing the government.

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[PharmaCan]

sad but true...the wording of legislation is so tedious...but posting the initiative and giving a bunch of stoners line item veto isn't going to work either.

ROFLMAO - Party pooper!

voters are lazy...they want the cliff notes on legislation...they want people to distill the truth into some easy catch phrase that they will either support or not.

Very true! It'll be very apparent when/if either of the initiatives makes it to the ballot. Then both sides will be scrambling to find just the right catchphrase to market their view.

PC

 

[DankSide]

A lot of opposition from those involved in the black market OBVIOUSLY.

Being able to grow and distribute marijuana legally and make a living is just fine. Taxes are there in all legitimate jobs unless done under the table. Alcohol taxed? Cigarettes taxed? Marijuana if legalized, will be taxed too. To expect legalization without taxation for weed is just absurd. Do we always have to have our cake and eat it too? Or is it about making $200,000 from a harvest rather than $50,000?
You guys who are against legalization for the purpose of added taxation are just blowing smoke. You're either in deep yourself or have a friend who could be negatively affected by the wave of willing legalizationists popping up epidemic style. The solution is for the dealers and distributors to be at the forefront of the legalization movement, not in the back of the room talking shit. There are too many people making too much money off of selling weed on black market prices. The underground is fearing a big competitive monster RATHER than trying to become the big competitive monster - as in, a well established dispensary/business by the time of legalization. I always thought the number 1 goal for all marijuana smokers was to get it to the point where we wouldn't be getting arrested anymore. Have had way too many friends with marijuana issues plaguing their legal lives, and for what? Inhaling burning plant matter, like smoking a cig.

If you're dealing I can't see why you wouldn't want to be legally dealing - do you know how much of a boost to business it would be if you were able to speak of your wares out in the open?

Yah, lets just keep it illegal so our dealers can continue with making rolls of cash to make a great living, lets continue paying black market prices on all MJ products and ignore the more liberal stance society has taken towards pot, passing it off as a curse instead of a gift. I say, YAH RIGHT to all that bologna. First and foremost the 800,000+ arrests for marijuana per year need to end. The greatest threat we can have is that to our freedom. I wouldn't mind paying a tax for my freedom at all.

The black market needs to prepare for the transition right away, get ready to go legal or lose all your mj business altogether. This will separate the people doing it for the cash from the ones doing it for the plant. Can you even begin to consider ALL the new potential customers including the release of around 800,000 jailed for weed - there will be more demand in all areas than there is supply. Isn't this why LA blew up with dispensaries? More dispensaries than starbucks because you're seeing high demand across the map. National legalization would boost demand in all 50 states - when people realize they can treat this more like alcohol or a medicine it will again be normalized.

WE Have some well respected MJ heros in those prisons and I'd like to get them out.

 

[HydroManiac]

What I think will happen if it is made legal is that the government will let either the drug companies or tobacco companies take over the growing mj they are not going to let the growers that are doing it now. And new laws will be passed making it a crime for anybody else to grow. It's the only way these assholes in the government will allow it to happen. I think that decriminalization of cannabis would be much better for us. I wonder how long it would be until big business started adding chemicals to mj like they do with everything else. We should really be careful with what we wish for.

 

[anthonytaurus]

Then Jack Herer must be a TRAITOR

Maybe this was mentioned before but I'll bring it up again just in case..

Did anyone bother to read Jack Herer's California Cannabis Hemp & Health Initiative (CCHI)

I'll help you folks out who don't like to read simple shit and think you have any idea about what Jack Herer wants as far as taxes

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]III. The legislature is authorized upon thorough investigation, to enact legislation using reasonable standards to:[/FONT]

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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1. License concessionary establishments to distribute cannabis hemp euphoric products in a manner analogous to California's wine industry model. Sufficient community outlets shall be licensed to provide reasonable commercial access to persons of legal age, so as to discourage and prevent the misuse of, and illicit traffic in, such products. Any license or permit fee required by the State for commercial production, distribution or use shall not exceed $1,000.00.[/FONT]​

​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2. Place an excise tax on commercial sale of cannabis hemp euphoric products, analogous to California's wine industry model, so long as no excise tax or combination of excise taxes shall exceed $10.00 per ounce.[/FONT]​

​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3. Determine an acceptable and uniform standard of impairment based on performance testing, to restrict persons impaired by cannabis hemp euphoric products from operating a motor vehicle or heavy machinery, or otherwise engaging in conduct that may affect public safety.[/FONT]​

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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]4. Regulate the personal use of cannabis hemp euphoric products in enclosed and/or restricted public places.[/FONT]​

WTF does #2 say? Read the fucking thing.

I know this nonsense comes from these clowns listening to that idiot Bruce W. Cain and that damn annoying bullshit Examiner article he fabricated. Then you idiots want to call people traitors while you throw up one quote by Jack Herer. Well call Jack Herer a traitor as well.

I think the greatest misconception so far is this idea that there is division in the marijuana legalization movement. It was a great ploy by Bruce W Cain but there is no division. There are a few idiots who fell for another idiot and don't know wtf they're talkin about but that's it.

Otherwise, everyone is on board for the same goal - legalization. We all know that won't happen without regulation and taxation. Jack Herer even knows that which is why he bothered to mention it in the CCHI. I'm glad most people are using their heads and not falling for this total and utter bullshit twisting of Jack Herer's words.

I think it's sad that every time one thread is knocked down another pops up fermenting more division. It's time to end all this nonsense and lock or delete this fuckin thread and any other thread started with anything coming from Bruce W Cain or anyone dumb enough to carry on his bullshit message.

 

[JackTheGrower]

so, where were we on comparing the two initiatives?

 

[JackTheGrower]

No disrespect for Jack but I have been told by people who would reasonably know Jack H. that Jack was close to announcing his support for CCI.

On the No tax note.. Okay it's not a pleasant thing but ask yourself which bad "law" is better at this time. CCI or Oaksterdam. I read the first parts and see CCI repeals laws, Oaksterdam allows us cannabis..

Then Jack Herer must be a TRAITOR

Maybe this was mentioned before but I'll bring it up again just in case..

Did anyone bother to read Jack Herer's California Cannabis Hemp & Health Initiative (CCHI)

I'll help you folks out who don't like to read simple shit and think you have any idea about what Jack Herer wants as far as taxes



WTF does #2 say? Read the fucking thing.

I know this nonsense comes from these clowns listening to that idiot Bruce W. Cain and that damn annoying bullshit Examiner article he fabricated. Then you idiots want to call people traitors while you throw up one quote by Jack Herer. Well call Jack Herer a traitor as well.

I think the greatest misconception so far is this idea that there is division in the marijuana legalization movement. It was a great ploy by Bruce W Cain but there is no division. There are a few idiots who fell for another idiot and don't know wtf they're talkin about but that's it.

Otherwise, everyone is on board for the same goal - legalization. We all know that won't happen without regulation and taxation. Jack Herer even knows that which is why he bothered to mention it in the CCHI. I'm glad most people are using their heads and not falling for this total and utter bullshit twisting of Jack Herer's words.

I think it's sad that every time one thread is knocked down another pops up fermenting more division. It's time to end all this nonsense and lock or delete this fuckin thread and any other thread started with anything coming from Bruce W Cain or anyone dumb enough to carry on his bullshit message.

 

[nephilthim]

hey I'm stuffing my pipe and smoking it too tax free!why do I need taxes on my weed....I don't.legalization without taxation is never gonna happen huh..what about prop 215 it passed without taxation.both of these initives have a long way to go before they make the ballot,and if and when they do.I won't vote for either of them.
13 years of prop 215,and the asswads in state,countyand municipal goverment can't accept the law of the land?lets knock that gift horse in the mouth,and see how many scheckels he coughs up?screw subsidizing the state on the backside of cannabis.let the fuckers go broke putting the entire state in jail,then maybe the feds can pick up the tab.
you know what I like about california goverment.....nothing!to that end thats what i think about either initive.
my motives are this I don't like state goverment I am a prop 215 recholder,and I will never vote for an initive that gives this rotten goverment the proverbial throwing good money after bad to a bunch of bureaucrats who would'nt appreciate it,and after a while feel entitled to it?I am against any taxation for that matter, goverment taxation for the sake of legitimacy doesn't equate to me.I vote against all tax hikes,and I am going to vote against this.