Flushing: Clearex or Water

[toastynoodles]

Used some Clearex today because one of the plants ppm/tds double in two days in the waterfarm and tips were showing nute burn!!!.10ml/gal ran 2 gal form to top.Starting ppm in the clearex water is 45ppm on the 0.5 scale.Frist gal drain water read 146ppm second gal 53ppm worked for me.

 

[watts]

hebrewer, your supposed to use 15-30ml clearex, not 10.

and yes foomar, the absorbic acid makes it have long shelf life. IF you make your own you gotta keep it in the fridge and only lasts a few months. But still much cheaper.

 

[megayields]

Clearex is a salt leaching and pre-harvest flushing solution designed to correct and remove the buildup of nutrient salt deposits in soils or soilless grow media.

Botanicare,s own description of Clerex. FYI

 

[Homebrewer]

hebrewer, your supposed to use 15-30ml clearex, not 10.

Actually it's 'Homebrewer' and 'you're' .


From their site and the back of the bottle:

Directions:
Hydroponic Systems:

• Use CLEAREX™ with every 1 - 2 reservoir changes. Use 1/2 - 1 ounce (15-30 ml) of CLEAREX™ per gallon (4 l) of water.
• Pour 1 - 2 quarts of solution per plant site with minimum 80 - 90% run-off. Dump waste run-off and fertilize and water as usual.
• Or add CLEAREX™ to pure water in reservoir without nutrients. Run system. Use 1/4 ounce (7 ml) to 1/2 ounce (15 ml) of CLEAREX™ per gallon (4 l) of water.
• Check EC or PPM in reservoir. Run system for 15 - 60 minutes or until EC or PPM stops rising. Dump reservoir.
• Add desired nutrient dosage and water, then adjust pH. Fertilize and water as usual.

 

[CRaiNKy]

I had a similar question. Clearex is similar to Final Phase from AN?

 

[Lowman]

thanks for the 411 homebrewer backing me up with the label info.
i read the back of the bottle years ago lowman.
i learnt to read. you should try it lol

id give it a smell for shits and giggles but a taste.... im not dumb enough to try to taste it to guess whats in it...

You really think quite highly of yourself don't ya? I read my label as well. It doesn't even list anything except the sugars. Not even a mention of 95.5% Inert Ingredients. Believe it or not...I actually read it all on my own. Look up inert. It doesn't mean nothing...it's still more ingredients.

The fact that your smart ass remark is inaccurate...as usual... doesn't surprise me.

 

[foomar]

the absorbic acid makes it have long shelf life

Have put a teaspoon of brewing grade ascorbic on my cornflakes every morning since 1965 , thats an overdose to counteract some issues with smokeing , loads cheaper than vit C tablets , hope its extended my use by date.

 

[Jbonez]

Flushing... lol...

Ok, so its like this.

Flushing with water or even a surfactant can remove extra salts in the medium that will build up over time with excessive feeding.

Flushing at the end of harvest to make the herb smoke or look better is a myth. You have to understand how plants work I suppose, but its simply a myth... Please challenge this someone, please.

 

[Guest 18340]

Why don't you enlighten us all instead of asking for a challenge?

 

[Lowman]

Flushing... lol...

Ok, so its like this.

Flushing with water or even a surfactant can remove extra salts in the medium that will build up over time with excessive feeding.

Flushing at the end of harvest to make the herb smoke or look better is a myth. You have to understand how plants work I suppose, but its simply a myth... Please challenge this someone, please.

I've always wondered why as an indoor grower....we need to flush...but outdoor plants don't get flushed the same at harvest time.

But maybe I'm over thinking it.

 

[Mia]

Why don't you enlighten us all instead of asking for a challenge?

Because he enjoys confrontation.....

 

[Jbonez]

I've always wondered why as an indoor grower....we need to flush...but outdoor plants don't get flushed the same at harvest time.

But maybe I'm over thinking it.

Most people stop there, but you are on to something. keep thinking about what you just said as its the proudest post mine eyes have had the pleasure of reading. The next arguement will be this "well, i can taste hydro nitrogen from organic nitrogen": its the same element, plants pull in nutrients at the elemental level, no way does bat shit improve the taste of pot lol...

Its because of a stigma... Just kinda stuck and became law.

People used to think marijuana makes you want to rape women or jump off bridges.. that wasnt true either.

make sense?

I just wanna see one shred of proof that nutrients accumulate in the plant at a high enough level for us to be able to discern our plants were a little "hot"...

 

[Mia]

What is an INTP?
Edit: never mind just read wikipedia.
I'm special too!

 

[Guest 18340]

Last chance to state your peace before I start deleting your off topic posts.
If you have some insight then lets hear it, otherwise you're coming across like you're looking for confrontation...

 

[Mia]

Ah nevermind....

 

[Homebrewer]

This is a long read but smart people have attention spans.

(From an administrator at Sensi Seeds):



A critical look at preharvest flushing

Pre harvest flushing is a controversial topic. Flushing is supposed to improve taste of the final bud by either giving only pure water, clearing solutions or extensive flushing for the last 7-14 days of flowering. While many growers claim a positive effect, others deny any positive influence or even suggest reduced yield and quality.

The theory of pre harvest flushing is to remove nutrients from the grow medium/root zone. A lack of nutrients creates a deficiency, forcing the plant to translocate and use up its internal nutrient compounds.

Nutrient fundamentals and uptake:

A good read about plant nutrition can be found here.

Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process.

The major nutrient uptake processes are:

1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment.

2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis.

http://www.biol.sc.edu/courses/bio102/f99-3637.html

http://www.hort.wisc.edu/cran/Publications/2001 Proceedings/min_nutr.pdf

The claim only ‘chemical’ ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavor of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions.

3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis.

http://acd.ucar.edu/~eholland/encyc6.html

Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions:

Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulfur is part of amino acids and proteins.

Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon.

Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is neeeded for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance.

http://www.sidwell.edu

You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other.

Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant:

Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so.

The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly:
Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins.

http://www.sirinet.net

Not all nutrient compounds are moveable within the plant.

1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem.
Deficiency appears on old leaves first.

2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem.
Deficiency appears on new leaves first.

http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu

Storage organelles:

Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though.

http://jeb.biologists.org.pdf

Translocation:

Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the translocation process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be translocated through the phloem. Immobile elements cant be translocated and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth.

Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the rootzone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Translocation is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc.

You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes don’t serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first.

Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved.

For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins, most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth.

Sulfur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen.


Summary:

Preharvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are loosing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue.

 

[Guest 18340]

Thank you for posting that Homebrewer.

 

[Jbonez]

Lucas kind of dumbed it down for the masses essentially, but I dont think I can post a link to the "ask lucas" thread, I think its on another site.

The only other alternative will be a long essay that would put you to sleep rather than inform, Ive tried... you would have to wiki ever other word, I dont know how to put it, I dont do lamens very well.

short answer?

The plant matter you are smoking is comprised of the very nutrients you are trying to flush. To say that you can actually taste levels of nutrients individually or even as whole is absurd.

For example, we all like a nice white ash. But then there is black ash, rumor has it that is from not flushing. Wrong, that is from not drying. try it, see for yourself!

Does that makes sense kind of? Ill try and narrow down some quotes from Lucas, I think he explained it better...


EDIT: and nevermind, there is the essay lol...

 

[Hydrosun]

I can taste the difference between flushed and unflushed hydro cannabis. I prefer flushed I enjoy seeing the plant eat the fan leaves from purple, to yellow, to brown during the last week of a two week flush.

To each their own.

 

[Jbonez]

I can taste the difference between flushed and unflushed hydro cannabis. I prefer flushed I enjoy seeing the plant eat the fan leaves from purple, to yellow, to brown during the last week of a two week flush.

To each their own.

at the end of the day you are right, to each his own, but humor me.

put two nugs, one from a flushed plant, and one from a plant fed the appropriate levels till the chop in your hands behind your back in a ball made with your hands and shake.

purposely mixed the nugs up, and smoke them. Then make a biased smoke report off taste alone. Suddenly its harder to tell them apart, weve tried this countless times. In fact, tastes are determined by the overall health of the plant, something easier to control with readily available chelated nutrients (hydroponics) . And yes, organics must be chelated to be absorbed, thats what bacteria does.. Suddenly this is painting a picture huh....

You will not need to read anything after you try this, I promise!