In the original thread by k33ftr33s he basically states the same. We allow the new nodes to develop with some true leaf before taking the subsequent fan.
Following the directions from those that have done it for many years is critical.
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Flowering.... trimming fan leaves off....leaving fan leaves on
- Thread starter vapedg13
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In the original thread by k33ftr33s he basically states the same. We allow the new nodes to develop with some true leaf before taking the subsequent fan.
Following the directions from those that have done it for many years is critical.
SittingBull
Member
Defoliation applications depend on genetics and overall health of the plant.
If you are trying to avoid canopy clutter and increase airflow, to reduce the chances of getting PM or bugs, then sure it helps with quality and yield.
Plants that aren't stressed by bugs or PM will def do better come harvest time.
That also accounts for airflow itself. Plants with more air flow are happier plants.
Also, I've seen bushy plants laugh at defoliation, they just regrow in 1-2 weeks. What harm did it actually cause them?
I've grown plants that are stretchy and have fewer leaves then normal. They need little defoliation because they don't have thick canopies. Simple enough.
When I think of defoliation - I think of keeping PM away from my OP. Period.
If you are trying to avoid canopy clutter and increase airflow, to reduce the chances of getting PM or bugs, then sure it helps with quality and yield.
Plants that aren't stressed by bugs or PM will def do better come harvest time.
That also accounts for airflow itself. Plants with more air flow are happier plants.
Also, I've seen bushy plants laugh at defoliation, they just regrow in 1-2 weeks. What harm did it actually cause them?
I've grown plants that are stretchy and have fewer leaves then normal. They need little defoliation because they don't have thick canopies. Simple enough.
When I think of defoliation - I think of keeping PM away from my OP. Period.
Fine if you don't do it but it seems like its getting more and more difficult for the "solar panel" guys to continue fighting in the face of actual, documented grows that used defoliation with great results.
Nobody is coming for your leaves. It's all good.
We ARE however coming for your bibles...
Nobody is coming for your leaves. It's all good.
We ARE however coming for your bibles...
Looks like allot of leaf still left there rather then skinning it here no defoilated same fcking thing but bigger colas of course skin a plant and see the difference i did 4 plant skin and huge difference in yield loss compared to non touch plant also here from untouched plant and a skinned plant look at bud size lol
first pic average bud undefoiled next 2 defoiled plant lol last pic undefoiled plant that kicks ass
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I've tried it.
I'm a closet grower/medical grower, not a commercial guy. It's just something you'll eventually do as a grower to try and see what you think.
Do they frost up more? I dunno. I don't have a lab, so it's all so subjective. I think it can help some indica leaners, to frost out the cola. but like i said, it's all so subjective. it's all your perception. I don't do it as a hard rule.
I clip leaves that I stress out, correct the problem, and move on. One day I'll go back to a legit grow room and let you know.
I'm a closet grower/medical grower, not a commercial guy. It's just something you'll eventually do as a grower to try and see what you think.
Do they frost up more? I dunno. I don't have a lab, so it's all so subjective. I think it can help some indica leaners, to frost out the cola. but like i said, it's all so subjective. it's all your perception. I don't do it as a hard rule.
I clip leaves that I stress out, correct the problem, and move on. One day I'll go back to a legit grow room and let you know.
lmao
Hmm you actually think that please do show me 12 plant grow 7 pound 4 oz dry from defoiled grow and i will eat my words its not going to happen
you mention nobody is coming for the leafs not only do i pull 7 pounds 4 oz of 12 plants but also pull 1/2 3/4 pound of hash from my trimmings that is money in the bankAttachments
You're missing some big points though. First one being that the plant in the picture is at the end of flower. That's weeks of re-growth that you see in the picture and still there's not much there. That should indicate what the plant looked like when it was stripped.
The other point is about bud size. You show the picture of a small bud of a stripped plant in your hand, compared to a bigger bud from a plant which was not defoliated.
That's not what I found. Those colas in the picture are a foot long. I've done a few scrogs before and I didn't notice a decrease in yield. If anything, there was an improvement. I don't know why you didn't get the same result.
What you've got to remember that defoliating allows more branches in a smaller space. It might be that individual colas are bigger/slightly bigger with all leaves left on. But you've got to balance that against how many colas you can fit into a certain space; defoliating allows you a more condensed canopy.
The problem with with your argument is that you seem close minded. You've made your decision and that's it.
You wouldn't put a scientist on an research project if you thought they'd manipulate the findings to suit their own agenda - if being right was more important than finding out. At that point their integrity is shot.
You'd want someone to just explore what was possible and what was true.
I started out skeptical but experience has opened my mind a bit. I'm still not absolutely sure about anything because I haven't thoroughly researched it. And neither have you. It's the fact you're so adamant based on so little research that makes me question the validity of your opinion.
Anyone who concludes anything based on such a tiny amount of data, shouldn't expect their words to carry much weight with any intelligent person - they'll demand more than that, because they're inquisitive. They're right to be that way, to question. It's the underpinning philosophy of every thinking man and woman - to question yourself as much as you question others. No amount of bud shots or pictures of hash will change that. That's not a dig at you personally, it's a statement of fact which would apply to anyone.
You should experiment more to find out what is possible. If you have already made your conclusions, then leave the thread and allow other people to do so and post honestly about what they find. It's as simple as that.
I have pulled 7.875 pounds from 12 plants and I know I could get more if I ran all heavey yielders and not 7 different strains. 64 ounces from the first 6 and 62 ounces from the second six. Two seperate 5X7 rooms with about 5X2 feet unused. So 50 square feet.
Here is one room just before I took the leaves after stretch.
This is the 64 ounce room.
This is the 64 ounce room.
W
willyweed
what a great photo,what lights were used please
willyweed
The light you see is a 600 watt hps. I pulled the top light out of the way and it was a 1000 watt hps.
I am not in the defoliation camp but I know my blackberry responds great and others don't...?
could you please post 64 0z of dried bud ???? i saw that grow it didn;t look anywhere close to what your saying 64 0z
i have dried tons of weed in my time hell like my outdoor last year 800 wet pounds and got 200 dry i'll look into your thread and post some pictures
al70
Well-known member
Pluck those leaves, they're taking away from the buds!
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I'm a senior female who has been growing all sorts of plants, bushes, trees my whole life. I learned it from my first generation American mom who grew everything too. When a plant like marijuana, which is a terpenoid, (produces resin no differently than a pine tree), gets to the stage that it is flowering/budding, the plant pretty much ceases to grow. At this stage all plant's energy is going toward producing seed be it in the form of fruit, vegetable, flowers, buds. Every living thing is programmed to PROCREATE if nothing else. Any plant in stress, a tree that is dying, a plant in it's final stages will quickly try to procreate as much as possible.
We prevent female marijuana plants from being pollinated and seeding so buds continue to swell in the hope of being pollinated and the plant procreating. The big marijuana leaves on the plant at this stage are doing nothing but taking resin away from the buds. The plant itself should no longer be growing because it's reached it's pot size potential and we've forced it to bud. The buds are what people want to smoke not leaves, so pinch them off. Use the sticky leaves to make butter, or hash. As for the resin in the plant, it's now known that higher temps, increased sunlight, and decreased water supply really motivate terpenoids to produce resin.
Pinching out the big marijuana leaves allows:
Light and heat to hit all budding sights
Keeps the plant drier signaling more resin production (the hydro in THC is a clue) to protect and nourish the swelling buds.
Alerts the plant that a herbivore may be eating it. Resin is a plants defense. Most critters do NOT like the taste of resin and therefore the plant will produce even more resin.
Allows all the good juju (resin) to go right to the buds and not on the leaves, which no one wants to smoke.
Think about it. Everything in my yard perennials, bushes, trees, herbs, roses, vegetables get thinned out once, twice, some three times over the summer or they suffer. I've flowered a 4 ft. lime tree in a pot. I've got gardenia's blooming on a giant 3 ft bush in my living room in MI right now. Always remember that the top of any plant in a pot cannot grow beyond the root system that supports it so once the plant/tree is mature, cutting back/pinching is necessary, repotting is NOT because part of forcing any plant to bloom is letting it become root bound, taking away light, and restricting water supply. This makes the plant bloom faster and more vigorously because it's all it can do. It must produce seed to maintain the species despite its dire conditions (starvation) and will do it every time.
When my plucked Northern Lights girly gets even more white with resin I'll post pics. She's only into her 4th week of flowering and smells absolutely lovely.
This post belongs to a member called melro52, I found it most helpful hope you all like it, hope she don't mind me passing it on,,,,,,
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I'm a senior female who has been growing all sorts of plants, bushes, trees my whole life. I learned it from my first generation American mom who grew everything too. When a plant like marijuana, which is a terpenoid, (produces resin no differently than a pine tree), gets to the stage that it is flowering/budding, the plant pretty much ceases to grow. At this stage all plant's energy is going toward producing seed be it in the form of fruit, vegetable, flowers, buds. Every living thing is programmed to PROCREATE if nothing else. Any plant in stress, a tree that is dying, a plant in it's final stages will quickly try to procreate as much as possible.
We prevent female marijuana plants from being pollinated and seeding so buds continue to swell in the hope of being pollinated and the plant procreating. The big marijuana leaves on the plant at this stage are doing nothing but taking resin away from the buds. The plant itself should no longer be growing because it's reached it's pot size potential and we've forced it to bud. The buds are what people want to smoke not leaves, so pinch them off. Use the sticky leaves to make butter, or hash. As for the resin in the plant, it's now known that higher temps, increased sunlight, and decreased water supply really motivate terpenoids to produce resin.
Pinching out the big marijuana leaves allows:
Light and heat to hit all budding sights
Keeps the plant drier signaling more resin production (the hydro in THC is a clue) to protect and nourish the swelling buds.
Alerts the plant that a herbivore may be eating it. Resin is a plants defense. Most critters do NOT like the taste of resin and therefore the plant will produce even more resin.
Allows all the good juju (resin) to go right to the buds and not on the leaves, which no one wants to smoke.
Think about it. Everything in my yard perennials, bushes, trees, herbs, roses, vegetables get thinned out once, twice, some three times over the summer or they suffer. I've flowered a 4 ft. lime tree in a pot. I've got gardenia's blooming on a giant 3 ft bush in my living room in MI right now. Always remember that the top of any plant in a pot cannot grow beyond the root system that supports it so once the plant/tree is mature, cutting back/pinching is necessary, repotting is NOT because part of forcing any plant to bloom is letting it become root bound, taking away light, and restricting water supply. This makes the plant bloom faster and more vigorously because it's all it can do. It must produce seed to maintain the species despite its dire conditions (starvation) and will do it every time.
When my plucked Northern Lights girly gets even more white with resin I'll post pics. She's only into her 4th week of flowering and smells absolutely lovely.
This post belongs to a member called melro52, I found it most helpful hope you all like it, hope she don't mind me passing it on,,,,,,
You're missing some big points though. First one being that the plant in the picture is at the end of flower. That's weeks of re-growth that you see in the picture and still there's not much there. That should indicate what the plant looked like when it was stripped.
The other point is about bud size. You show the picture of a small bud of a stripped plant in your hand, compared to a bigger bud from a plant which was not defoliated.
That's not what I found. Those colas in the picture are a foot long. I've done a few scrogs before and I didn't notice a decrease in yield. If anything, there was an improvement. I don't know why you didn't get the same result.
What you've got to remember that defoliating allows more branches in a smaller space. It might be that individual colas are bigger/slightly bigger with all leaves left on. But you've got to balance that against how many colas you can fit into a certain space; defoliating allows you a more condensed canopy.
Hmm ok lets get right to the main question there are 2 types of growers one that grows to make money other that grows for there own purpose
when unloading WEED by the pounds or kilos what ever it goes to a person we call a buyer he will collect 20 - 50 - 500 pounds of WEED then send it down the ladder via internationally or with in the borders where ever the price of weed is up Right
Most weed will probably go thru 4 - 10 hands before its smoked so size of buds, quality is all a factor here
With defoilating your going to get bottom bud growth what we call B Grade LARF CRAP shit bud in other words HASH material lol and thats it sure you can unload it to friends and the corner punk but inreality its lower grade bringing you lower money
Size of buds quality dictate a SALE again specially when your dealing not in oz but in pounds when a guy is giving you 10 , 20 , 250,000 cash he wants top notch shit
MYTH Debunked
Defoilating speeds up plant growth hahaha NOT it slows plant growth
hey were here to grow the most and fastest time frame weed
#2 defoilating a plant can go hermie on you ???
Fck yea what causes hermies STRESS ???? you think plucking leafs of a plant is not STRESS ???? Think again it is
Millions of years of evolution and a MJ plant doesn't naturally drop its leafs to make more bud ?? hahaha cmon man mother nature is powerful
You say more branches from defoilating again i ask you how long it took is there not other alternatives for more branching
like topping cropping fimming all these will work much faster with better results no need to experiment with that
You mention more branches lol *at what time frame does this happen
ask your self how photosynthisis really works google it pretty simple all in the leaf area
does defoilating effect osmosis ???? does it effect transpiration
NO LEAFS = NO C02 uptake
here a picture 3 " clone an like day 35 please show me one of your defoiled plants at same ageand some dried buds that fetch top dollar
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well said papaduc
defo'ing does work.
but there's always those that won't accept it no matter what because it goes against their views.
I saw it in my Mh vs HPS thread.
seems like some constantly use a thread like this or any opportunity really to stroke ones own ego and using the situation
to again, and again post more pics ad nauseum and again and again ends up telling us how great he is.
LOL.. reminds of this one self stroker in my Mh/HPS thread where no one would give him the time of day because they really were not interested in his constant me me me posts that had not much to do with the topic so as usual it resorts to the trolling/baiting comments to get any kind response so as to be viable in the conversation.... at least in his own eyes
nice ichabod, is this a current gro?
drknockbootz
Member
You're missing some big points though. First one being that the plant in the picture is at the end of flower. That's weeks of re-growth that you see in the picture and still there's not much there. That should indicate what the plant looked like when it was stripped.
The other point is about bud size. You show the picture of a small bud of a stripped plant in your hand, compared to a bigger bud from a plant which was not defoliated.
That's not what I found. Those colas in the picture are a foot long. I've done a few scrogs before and I didn't notice a decrease in yield. If anything, there was an improvement. I don't know why you didn't get the same result.
What you've got to remember that defoliating allows more branches in a smaller space. It might be that individual colas are bigger/slightly bigger with all leaves left on. But you've got to balance that against how many colas you can fit into a certain space; defoliating allows you a more condensed canopy.
Hmm ok lets get right to the main question there are 2 types of growers one that grows to make money other that grows for there own purpose
when unloading WEED by the pounds or kilos what ever it goes to a person we call a buyer he will collect 20 - 50 - 500 pounds of WEED then send it down the ladder via internationally or with in the borders where ever the price of weed is up Right
Most weed will probably go thru 4 - 10 hands before its smoked so size of buds, quality is all a factor here
With defoilating your going to get bottom bud growth what we call B Grade LARF CRAP shit bud in other words HASH material lol and thats it sure you can unload it to friends and the corner punk but inreality its lower grade bringing you lower money
Size of buds quality dictate a SALE again specially when your dealing not in oz but in pounds when a guy is giving you 10 , 20 , 250,000 cash he wants top notch shit
MYTH Debunked
Defoilating speeds up plant growth hahaha NOT it slows plant growth
hey were here to grow the most and fastest time frame weed
#2 defoilating a plant can go hermie on you ???
Fck yea what causes hermies STRESS ???? you think plucking leafs of a plant is not STRESS ???? Think again it is
Millions of years of evolution and a MJ plant doesn't naturally drop its leafs to make more bud ?? hahaha cmon man mother nature is powerful
You say more branches from defoilating again i ask you how long it took is there not other alternatives for more branching
like topping cropping fimming all these will work much faster with better results no need to experiment with that
You mention more branches lol *at what time frame does this happen
ask your self how photosynthisis really works google it pretty simple all in the leaf area
does defoilating effect osmosis ???? does it effect transpiration
NO LEAFS = NO C02 uptake
here a picture 3 " clone an like day 35 please show me one of your defoiled plants at same age
Just wondering how many watts did you run in your 64 ounce room ?
How long do you usually veg for?
And when you sell to a customer do you stick 12" cola in the bag?
drknockbootz
Member
Just some good info I copied and pasted from a knowledgeable grower please read....
"The second reason a grower might do leaf removal of lower canopy leaves would be at a time when they believe the leaves are past their prime maturity and beginning to decline in efficiency. As leaves develop they take a huge amount of energy, making young immature leaves a sink. Once they reach close to their mature size, they begin to produce more energy than they consume for growth and maintaining functionality, making them sources. Then, after a period of time (different for all plants) they are past their ideal maturity and begin to decline in efficiency. The process of senescence begins and the plant breaks down chlorophyll and other structures to recover nutrients and energy where it can before abscising the leaf. As this process takes place, a layer called the abscission layer forms between the base of the petiole (leaf stem) and the plant stem. You may have noticed how much easier it is to pull a leaf off a tree in the fall versus the spring or summer. . . this is because the abscission layer has formed in preparation for defoliation and winter dormancy. The ideal time to remove lower canopy leaves from your plant is when this layer begins to form, to minimize the wound/susceptibility to disease at the site of removal. With experience you will be able to feel the resistance of a leaf and tell whether or not it wants to come off or not based on resistance/presence of the abscission layer. If this is the reason you are removing leaves, it is important not to remove too many leaves at once, and to make sure you only remove leaves that are heavily obstructed from light or are past their ideal maturity and therefore functioning as sinks rather than sources of energy for the plant.
Another reason, as I just mentioned, is if lower leaves become so heavily obstructed from light (more common in indoor gardens with a fixed light source rather than a shifting natural sun) that they are no longer able to efficiently photosynthesize, they are still consuming energy through respiration and still consuming water and nutrients through transpiration. . . so they are worth removing to maximize your growth. If this is why you are doing leaf removal you may not be able to wait for an abscission layer to form if your plant is growing vigorously and you don't do LST or some other method of canopy spreading to allow light to penetrate deeper. You have two options for leaf removal technique. The classic prune at stem level (removing both the leaf blade and the leaf petiole), or just leaf blade removal. The concept behind removing just the leaf blade is that the plant will seal off the end of the petiole easier than a wound on the surface of the main stem, then after the plant realizes the leaf blade is gone (no more auxin being produced from that location), the plant will begin the natural abscission process (forming an abscission layer at the stem) and you can come back and remove the petiole later without create exposure for botrytis or other opportunistic diseases.
Lastly, many growers have problems controlling powdery mildew and other diseases like bud rot that will thrive if the air circulation is limited. If this is your concern, the decision of how many leaves and when to remove them must be made on a garden by garden basis, with anticipation of when you know the problem to occur for you. Many times, proper environmental control and plant spacing/structuring is the answer to removing these concerns, rather than pruning leaves after you notice the canopy is too thick."
And DrF your canopy is only a like a foot deep. In your situation you can get away without defoliating.
"The second reason a grower might do leaf removal of lower canopy leaves would be at a time when they believe the leaves are past their prime maturity and beginning to decline in efficiency. As leaves develop they take a huge amount of energy, making young immature leaves a sink. Once they reach close to their mature size, they begin to produce more energy than they consume for growth and maintaining functionality, making them sources. Then, after a period of time (different for all plants) they are past their ideal maturity and begin to decline in efficiency. The process of senescence begins and the plant breaks down chlorophyll and other structures to recover nutrients and energy where it can before abscising the leaf. As this process takes place, a layer called the abscission layer forms between the base of the petiole (leaf stem) and the plant stem. You may have noticed how much easier it is to pull a leaf off a tree in the fall versus the spring or summer. . . this is because the abscission layer has formed in preparation for defoliation and winter dormancy. The ideal time to remove lower canopy leaves from your plant is when this layer begins to form, to minimize the wound/susceptibility to disease at the site of removal. With experience you will be able to feel the resistance of a leaf and tell whether or not it wants to come off or not based on resistance/presence of the abscission layer. If this is the reason you are removing leaves, it is important not to remove too many leaves at once, and to make sure you only remove leaves that are heavily obstructed from light or are past their ideal maturity and therefore functioning as sinks rather than sources of energy for the plant.
Another reason, as I just mentioned, is if lower leaves become so heavily obstructed from light (more common in indoor gardens with a fixed light source rather than a shifting natural sun) that they are no longer able to efficiently photosynthesize, they are still consuming energy through respiration and still consuming water and nutrients through transpiration. . . so they are worth removing to maximize your growth. If this is why you are doing leaf removal you may not be able to wait for an abscission layer to form if your plant is growing vigorously and you don't do LST or some other method of canopy spreading to allow light to penetrate deeper. You have two options for leaf removal technique. The classic prune at stem level (removing both the leaf blade and the leaf petiole), or just leaf blade removal. The concept behind removing just the leaf blade is that the plant will seal off the end of the petiole easier than a wound on the surface of the main stem, then after the plant realizes the leaf blade is gone (no more auxin being produced from that location), the plant will begin the natural abscission process (forming an abscission layer at the stem) and you can come back and remove the petiole later without create exposure for botrytis or other opportunistic diseases.
Lastly, many growers have problems controlling powdery mildew and other diseases like bud rot that will thrive if the air circulation is limited. If this is your concern, the decision of how many leaves and when to remove them must be made on a garden by garden basis, with anticipation of when you know the problem to occur for you. Many times, proper environmental control and plant spacing/structuring is the answer to removing these concerns, rather than pruning leaves after you notice the canopy is too thick."
And DrF your canopy is only a like a foot deep. In your situation you can get away without defoliating.
