Florida to drug test Welfare recipiients.

[DiscoBiscuit]

Care to point out, er "fix" a past comment that demonstrates anything but re-phrase. The only context I've picked up is assistance = bad.

There's 15 pages of posts here, silver hawaiian. Did you happen to consider other posts... you know, the ones that acknowledge fraud and the need to thwart it?

I hope that fixes your assumptions.

If by chance your solutions aren't comprised of perfect or nothing, I'll entertain your thoughts and stop suggesting they're absolute.

 

[silver hawaiian]

Disco

The only comments I've "fixed" were edited immediately on an "oh, shit, what I meant was.." basis. Is this chess? Can we not change our mind after our finger is off the piece?

Here, allow me to help:

DISCO - YOU ARE IN FACT HOLIER THAN ALL OF US

MORE INTELLECTUAL THAN ALL OF US

Hope that scratched your itch!

 

[silver hawaiian]

Here, allow me to play like y'all:

The only context I've picked up is assistance = bad.

Don't blame me for your intellectual shortcomings.

If you somehow extrapolated my statements to mean that "WELFARE IS BAD AND MUST BE STOPPED," you've got a serious gift for imagination.

There's 15 pages of posts here, silver hawaiian. Did you happen to consider other posts... you know, the ones that acknowledge fraud and the need to thwart it?

I wasn't at all responding to anything OTHER than the notion that ZOMG DRUG TEST WELFARE RECIPIENTS?! OH NOOOES HALP!

Isn't that the title of this thread?

If by chance your solutions aren't comprised of perfect or nothing, I'll entertain your thoughts and stop suggesting they're absolute.

I don't have the answer to FIX the welfare system. Do I think that drug tests for folks on assistance is a good idea? YES.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

There were two conversations going on. Conversation A was re: drug testing welfare recipients.

When you quote my comments sir, I hope you expect a direct response. I neither crowd your perception with others nor do I change your context. I have made the observation that the absolute opinion doesn't appear to look past the initial reaction. Do you have anything other than an absolute perspective? You're welcome to share if you wish but re-contextualizing my comments isn't helping.

B was my observation about the fact that everyone here "debates" like a bunch of 14 year olds.

I guess I missed that one. Is that your example that all assistance recipients aren't fraudsters?

It IS possible to have both A and B going on, CONCURRENTLY, irrespective of each other.

I guess that would depend on your perspective. Care to demonstrate?

(Didn't I swear I was done with this 5 posts back?!)

I guess the fact that you're still here means you might reconsider swearing. If you wish to acknowledge (not necessarily agreement or disagreement) w/o reinventing your opponents response, I'd respect your right to disagree, still do. I'd probably point out something I feel you may fail to consider but I've yet to declare one side right and the other wrong.

This is because we live in a diverse society where what's best for all often creates opportunity for fraud. The good governor understood that very well and exploited fraud to to the tune of Guinness record proportion.

You know, if Rick hadn't ripped off Medicare to unknown proportions (we don't know what he stole, he just had to cough $1.7 billion) the no-to-assistance view wouldn't be as unusual to defend. It's not unlike hiring Capone to run the state branch of the FBI.

Rick didn't just rip-off to epic proportions. His solution runs through the same joint that already ripped us all off.

 

[silver hawaiian]

I think I see the disparity in our views (aside from the fact that we're two different humans, like any two humans).

I'm getting the gist that you're a Floridian? If that's the case, I can respect your opinion as someone who's a little more up-close-and-personal with this particular situation.

NOT being a Floridian, I'm speaking from a 50,000 foot level on the situation. That's all.

In a nutshell, let me make this plain as day: If we're giving money to folks, for whatever reason (TARP, welfare, foreign aid), the folks receiving that money should expect to have to operate within some boundaries. Legal ones, at that.

That is all.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I think I see the disparity in our views (aside from the fact that we're two different humans, like any two humans).

I'm getting the gist that you're a Floridian? If that's the case, I can respect your opinion as someone who's a little more up-close-and-personal with this particular situation.

NOT being a Floridian, I'm speaking from a 50,000 foot level on the situation. That's all.

In a nutshell, let me make this plain as day: If we're giving money to folks, for whatever reason (TARP, welfare, foreign aid), the folks receiving that money should expect to have to operate within some boundaries. Legal ones, at that.

That is all.

I consider that well-constructed premise. While I don't live in Florida, I'd have to assume their fraud enforcement is non-existent to even think about cutting meat instead of simply fat.

50,000 feet? I recon the air is pretty thin up there.

 

[silver hawaiian]

I consider that well-constructed premise. While I don't live in Florida, I'd have to assume their fraud enforcement is non-existent to consider cutting meat instead of just fat.

50,000 feet? I recon the air is pretty thin up there.

Juuuuust how I like it!

*gasp*

 

[F. Dupp]

My mother is a welfare fraud investigator for one of the larger counties in the midwest. I have heard the stories firsthand, and its enough to make one sick.
Run by liberals, its a scammers wet dream. It encourages weakness, and has created a culture of those unwilling to earn a living.

Welfare feeds more crack habits than children.

Anyone who doesnt believe that our welfare system needs a complete overhaul, is either one of the tens of millions fleecing it, or a complete fool.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Sure would love to visit your state. I doubt many guys my age would grab a board and hit the pipe but I'd enjoy watching the pros.

 

[silver hawaiian]

Disco

If you're talking to me, I'm not sure how much surfing can be done in the Great Lakes.

But we can hit the OTHER pipe like some pros.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

My mother is a welfare fraud investigator for one of the larger counties in the midwest. I have heard the stories firsthand, and its enough to make one sick.
Run by liberals, its a scammers wet dream. It encourages weakness, and has created a culture of those unwilling to earn a living.

Welfare feeds more crack habits than children.

Anyone who doesnt believe that our welfare system needs a complete overhaul, is either one of the tens of millions fleecing it, or a complete fool.

With all due respect to you and especially your mom, do you have anything other than a no-vote?

Do you have a solution other than assuming fleece or fool? Like I said, kudos to your mom but I can't say the same toward the post.

Fool denotes not only lack of intelligence but a willingness to choose so. So bring something with that gut reaction (other than where mommy works.) After all, mom might have to go on temporary assistance prior to finding another job in this economy. Lets hope that isn't in some conservative austerity measure to afford more tax cuts for the wealthy.

Why doesn't your mom do her part to identify the fraudsters that comprise what appears to be rather baseless assertions on your part?

 

[Guest 88950]

...I don't have the answer to FIX the welfare system. Do I think that drug tests for folks on assistance is a good idea? YES...

would you admit that drug testing applicants will be costly?

you have already admitted that there will always be some who get over on the system so what percentage of applicants do you guess will be denied based on a failed drug test.

dont forget due process. that will more than likely require a confirmation test to prove results.

home test or self tests will be out of the question b/c who is going to administer the test to ensure no tampering.



fyi, a previous employer was split funded by the local county and state of fl due to the type of legal work done and no body had to submit to a pre-employment drug screen and no randoms either.

its still that way now and these are tax funded offices.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Mr(?) Dupp, does your idea of "complete overhaul" look anything like trickle-up?

A former, austere president attempted to overhaul the Social Security program with a tax cut for the rich in his first term.

That same president declared that a 1.5% victory in the substituent election constituted a "mandate" to overhaul social security.

This austere gentleman made no less than three trips around the country to propose that individuals put their trust in the stock-market to make even more money for retirement, carefully omitting the fact that long-term, low-risk diversification takes a few decades to materialize when folks don't have enough money for large deposits, not to mention high-risk investments.

The country had a short, loud answer. If memory serves me correctly, it was "no".

This "no" proved to be an educated guess because Wall Street not only tanked the market, they tanked entire pension and 401k pools of liquidity, in the name of AAA investments.

Can't blame that on ratings agencies because the folks that sold the crap [bet] on the failure of these investments. One might think that retirement pools were foolish for engaging in higher risk but the market guaranteed these investments in the form of credit-default-swaps. Then the market bought the same CDSs for the same "guaranteed" loans because they knew these loans would fail.

Our illustrious treasury secretary of the day made sure that AIG reimbursed the market before the pension pools in the interests of stability.

This is but one reason we have more folks on assistance roles because they took our money yet reimbursed themselves.

It's no coinkydink that the Social Security program was depleted of approximately the same amount of liquidity as the trickle-up tax cuts.

If the private sector hadn't sacked numerous pools of liquidity, I'd venture a guess your mom's reams of data to go after fraud wouldn't be as enormous.

You mentioned something about feeding more crack habits than children. Got any data? I wonder how many children are being fed by defunct retirement plans. My guess.... not too many at all.

 

[silver hawaiian]

SSH

Absolutely it's an added expense, .. And I don't have the solution, ultimately, to fix the whole mess.

But it's a mess. And whether we like to acknowledge it or not, there is such a thing as a welfare culture. Not all recipients, certainly. But let's face the fact that there is a culture in which receiving welfare is an accepted way of life. Call it "working the system," whatever, but it exists.

(Welfare is one, .. Disability is another..)

Which, let me just be clear, is not to say that all of either are not legitimately in need of assistance.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Disco

If you're talking to me, I'm not sure how much surfing can be done in the Great Lakes.

But we can hit the OTHER pipe like some pros.

Oh!... duh! Well... the Great Lakes have waves. The kind that hit the ankle pretty darn hard. Where's my board, I'm on the way. The other pipe is more my stile anyway.

 

[dagnabit]

Disco

If you're talking to me, I'm not sure how much surfing can be done in the Great Lakes.

But we can hit the OTHER pipe like some pros.

i've seen 'em surfing little traverse bay in NOVEMBER!!!!

that there is ice floating in the water!!!

 

[dagnabit]

Oh!... duh! Well... the Great Lakes have waves. The kind that hit the ankle pretty darn hard. Where's my board, I'm on the way. The other pipe is more my stile anyway.

ankles hell!!!

i was SHOCKED the first time i saw 8' waves in fuggin indiana!!!!


as for the "debate"
it's become yet another "care to contextualize" intellectual/moral anthony measuring context.

and we all know DB is the moral john holmes of IC

 

[F. Dupp]

With all due respect to you and especially your mom, do you have anything other than a no-vote?

Do you have a solution other than assuming fleece or fool? Like I said, kudos to your mom but I can't say the same toward the post.

Fool denotes not only lack of intelligence but a willingness to choose so. So bring something with that gut reaction (other than where mommy works.) After all, mom might have to go on temporary assistance prior to finding another job in this economy. Lets hope that isn't in some conservative austerity measure to afford more tax cuts for the wealthy.

Why doesn't your mom do her part to identify the fraudsters that comprise what appears to be rather baseless assertions on your part?

She does her part to identify all fraudsters. Thats her job, and with so many welfare scammers, she wont be losing her job anytime soon.

"Baseless assertions on my part"? Do you personally know anyone who has worked for the welfare department for the last 30 years?

I often have to ask her to cut her REAL LIFE stories of welfare fraud short, because they make me physically ill.

Your defense of the corrupt welfare system, to me, someone who has heard firsthand of this corruption most of his life, is like starting a "marijuana is a dangerous drug" thread on this website.

I know otherwise.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Where's my wetsuit? I'll hit that mutha, looks like fun. I watched a couple of hodads via PBS traveling the world and riding the waves. When they arrive in Indonesia, the seas provided breakwaters almost a mile from shore. What a ride.

 

[dagnabit]

Where's my wetsuit? I'll hit that mutha, looks like fun. I watched a couple of hodads via PBS traveling the world and riding the waves. When they arrive in Indonesia, the seas provided breakwaters almost a mile from shore. What a ride.

not me!!!
i boat those waters..
68° in the middle of aug.
brrrrrr

they use dry suits BTW